The Watercooler -- Impressions, philosophical discussion and general banter. Index on first page. All welcome.
Mar 6, 2023 at 2:43 AM Post #51,166 of 88,648
If you factor in mainstream stuff it wouldn’t be that much of a stretch to say that a set of AirPods, or a set of CCA CRA today offer better sound than an SE846 of 10 years ago. Back then hybrid driver setups were very uncommon and stuff like Bluetooth was a guaranteed hit in resolution. Now not so much.
 
Mar 6, 2023 at 2:45 AM Post #51,167 of 88,648
As a wholly random aside, the reality of being a recent father has resulted in the majority of my listening time being directed not towards my IEMs, but towards Cocomelon on my LG TVs internal speakers. I find myself with a lack of time to listen to music these days between fatherhood responsibilities and being on calls most of the day for work, but seemingly with just enough time during those in-between moments to post and catch up on the latest watercooler posts. As much as I lament the cost of childcare in this country cutting into my gear budget (seriously, daycare bills, alongside rent, are practically criminal here in NY), I will say that, as I sit on this sunny Sunday afternoon beside this darling little girl with my eyes and cheeks, trying (rather unsuccessfully) to get her to nap, I'm realizing I really wouldn't trade this for anything in the world. There'll be more time to listen to music when she's a little bit older, but in the interim, this isn't half bad.
As a father of a 2 year old daughter myself, I can relate. "Baby shark" is the most played song on my playlist 😂. Most of my millennial friends I grew up with in Vancouver moved out of the city to raise children. I'm aways trying to find the balance between filling my audio "needs" while setting up my family up to weather the economy. These feelings hit me again when I came home from Canjam and my daughter started singing with glee "Daddy is here". I wouldn't trade this for anything that I have. Yes the chase is fun but the gear we seek out will be here at the end of the day (cheaper used too).

Time is also another factor. I am sure you noticed the age demographic around Canjam. Some audiophiles I talked to have spent decades building up the means to buy their gear and I am happy they get enjoy the fruits of their labour. I feel blessed that I get to sample some of those.
 
Mar 6, 2023 at 3:23 AM Post #51,168 of 88,648
It’s interesting to observe how the way people discuss about an IEM is so different between most Chinese forums and Head-fi. Here everyone tries to keep opinions objective and avoid using aggressive words when describing an IEM. While in Chinese forums, people often post aggressive comments on an IEM straight first if they are not happy with it and then describing it objectively later lol.
 
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Mar 6, 2023 at 3:28 AM Post #51,169 of 88,648
I thought Gaea was meh when I had it.
Not trash, but not the first IEM that I’d think of in that price bracket, and definitely nothing that I’d care to spend a lot of time with

And in other news I finally got hold of Odyssey. I’ve maybe spent 4 hours listening to it so far, but so far I really enjoy the mids, as well as the added bass punch of the BCD. I’ll play with eartips and such as I form a better opinion of it with more use.

Some of my favourites so far are spiral dot (OG) tips, spinfit W1s and asks crystals. A cable upgrade helps massively also.
 
Mar 6, 2023 at 3:48 AM Post #51,170 of 88,648
For those who own/have heard the Blancs, would you recommend them? From what I gather they are a step up from the Fourte's but are not too much different from the Noirs. I am one of those people who rates the Fourte highly (although its been some years since I last heard it) and thats why the Blancs appeal.
 
Mar 6, 2023 at 4:11 AM Post #51,171 of 88,648
For those who own/have heard the Blancs, would you recommend them? From what I gather they are a step up from the Fourte's but are not too much different from the Noirs. I am one of those people who rates the Fourte highly (although its been some years since I last heard it) and thats why the Blancs appeal.
I personally prefer Fourte to Noir, so if Blanc is closer to Noir, you might not prefer it to Fourte. Only your ears will say for sure.
 
Mar 6, 2023 at 5:27 AM Post #51,172 of 88,648
Met up with my Lebanese electrical engineer friend earlier. He tried my Mentor / Orphy SP3K. Loved his reaction. He was blown away.

EE316B58-1DB6-42C8-8580-AB1F32E1D24A.jpeg
While listening to David Guetta / Sia "Titanium" he said:

"Oh my god. The bass is moving in my ear. It sounds like she's in a live concert hall... Crazy amount of detail."
Yo, that bass moving in the ear blew me away too! It is interesting how it appears in some songs more than others. Usually string bass doesn't activate the BCD feeling, I've found.
I have been listening to the Mentor for a few days now.

It is 11:26PM and I need to be up at 4:00AM for mandatory physical training.

I can't stop listening to house music with the MM paired with Hugo 2.
On another note, it is 4:26AM and my mandatory physical training got canceled.

Time to listen to the Mentor instead of going back to sleep again!
 
Mar 6, 2023 at 5:50 AM Post #51,173 of 88,648
I want to try Cayin N7 but last night match with Liverpool. I don’t want to see number 7 😭
 
Mar 6, 2023 at 6:07 AM Post #51,174 of 88,648
Inflation money-wise over those 10 years was 28.5%. But looking at it just like that completely misses the point that inflation in quality has been enormous. And ahead of that comes research and a ton of other things which, obviously, has to be paid by someone.

But like in 2013 in 2023 you're not forced to buy the best sounding IEMs either. And there's also a point to be made that the top quality from 2013 may be possible to find way cheaper in 2023.

drftr

This is true and diminishing returns and all but still, many TOTL prices are pure insanity. I'm only watching from the sideline at IEMS at 4k+ but looking at the Bird vs. Penon Impact says a lot imo, let alone the new titanium bird for crazy money. Some manufacturers are stretching it.

Another example Empire Ears. Not as expensive as the TOTL mentioned before but still high priced, especially from a sane persons view. 3-4.000$ and then you get a really bad cable with it that has memory effect (Odyssey, Evo). Not nice.

It's a niche and if you want to play here, prepare to be abused money wise.

Ignorance is bliss. I wish I'd stopped 10 years ago with my HD650 and the U900 haha
 
Mar 6, 2023 at 6:15 AM Post #51,175 of 88,648
This is true and diminishing returns and all but still, many TOTL prices are pure insanity. I'm only watching from the sideline at IEMS at 4k+ but looking at the Bird vs. Penon Impact says a lot imo, let alone the new titanium bird for crazy money. Some manufacturers are stretching it.

Another example Empire Ears. Not as expensive as the TOTL mentioned before but still high priced, especially from a sane persons view. 3-4.000$ and then you get a really bad cable with it that has memory effect (Odyssey, Evo). Not nice.

It's a niche and if you want to play here, prepare to be abused money wise.

Ignorance is bliss. I wish I'd stopped 10 years ago with my HD650 and the U900 haha
My personal experience, re: pricing, based on my income bracket and current disposable income, puts the sweet spot for IEMs for me firmly at somewhere around the $2000-$2500 mark, not including cable upgrades or anything like that.

That's not a dig at anyone's pricing scheme. I'm saying, having been at CanJam, between the KR5, the Solaris, and a number of Noble's recent offerings, you had ample options at that price point, and I feel like you would have been hard pressed to feel like you were missing out having bought any of them.

I feel more strongly about bad stock cables, especially with flagship models. I'm really satisfied with PW Audio's Epoch though, and given that a bunch of manufacturers are including it now and you can get it at most places for around the $249-$300 mark, it seems like that situation is getting better.
 
Mar 6, 2023 at 6:16 AM Post #51,176 of 88,648
Bird vs. Penon Impact says a lot imo
Good point but without the Traillii there wouldn't have been Impact. You need trailblazers to make steps in any industry. And of course if successful the rest will follow. Either with trying to use similar but much cheaper techniques and components, or, in this case, trying to copy-paste a highly successful sound profile.

The next wave will come with companies trying to copy-paste the unique sound of Xe6. That very different sound hit the market in similar fashion as Traillii and companies without a great vision and R&D department will want to profit from it.

Without the Trailli's and Xe6's of this world we would still be listening to 2013 SQ.

drftr
 
Mar 6, 2023 at 6:55 AM Post #51,177 of 88,648
Good point but without the Traillii there wouldn't have been Impact. You need trailblazers to make steps in any industry. And of course if successful the rest will follow. Either with trying to use similar but much cheaper techniques and components, or, in this case, trying to copy-paste a highly successful sound profile.

The next wave will come with companies trying to copy-paste the unique sound of Xe6. That very different sound hit the market in similar fashion as Traillii and companies without a great vision and R&D department will want to profit from it.

Without the Trailli's and Xe6's of this world we would still be listening to 2013 SQ.

drftr
I'll also add to this: putting aside certain companies that have rebranded themselves as "luxury brands" in recent years, to some degree what you're paying for isn't just product, but customer service, and to a degree the infrastructure that keeps people employed and allows artists and engineers to innovate.

I firmly disagree with the sentiment in some circles that all the cheaper, primarily Chinese IEM manufacturers have done is emulate rather than innovate (I've seen a lot of impressive, unique feats coming out of those companies, especially recently), but the downside to getting, I'll put it plainly, the cheaper alternative, is the risk you take on when something goes wrong. I know that risk. I own Chinese IEMs from a super obscure brand (and not inexpensive ones), but they were unique (not imitating something more expensive), the distributor had good customer service, and I took a leap of faith because I wanted something distinct (again, not imitating something already established).

The reality is, Empire Ears, Fir, Campfire, they're all American companies with stellar reputations. I can put names to faces and feel confident that, even when everything with their stuff isn't quite right, they'll do everything in their power to make it right.

Comparatively (and I won't name names here, you can search around), I recall one particular story about someone on Head Fi who owned $1000 IEMs purchased from a notable Chinese distributor who, when something went wrong and one earphone broke, gave them the response that they'd be best off purchasing an entirely new set, at full price. None of the three companies I've named here would have done that. Take that for what you will.
 
Mar 6, 2023 at 7:30 AM Post #51,178 of 88,648
I want to try Cayin N7 but last night match with Liverpool. I don’t want to see number 7 😭

8ED86B4E-771D-402D-A747-DEB82D5A5764.jpeg6B752913-84AB-4E84-81F7-BEAF6FDFB08B.jpeg
 
Mar 6, 2023 at 7:30 AM Post #51,179 of 88,648
Good point but without the Traillii there wouldn't have been Impact. You need trailblazers to make steps in any industry. And of course if successful the rest will follow. Either with trying to use similar but much cheaper techniques and components, or, in this case, trying to copy-paste a highly successful sound profile.

The next wave will come with companies trying to copy-paste the unique sound of Xe6. That very different sound hit the market in similar fashion as Traillii and companies without a great vision and R&D department will want to profit from it.

Without the Trailli's and Xe6's of this world we would still be listening to 2013 SQ.

drftr
I really like this point. This is very subjective and I could see someone arguing successfully against it, but I think the issue with IEMs is there’s technologically so much innovation and change still happening, at least it feels that way, more than in other areas like headphones, where the pace is slower. And the benefit is there’s so much good sounding portable gear today, compared to only a couple of years ago. No one HAS to play at these insane price levels to find sonic bliss anymore, just us crazies who choose to. Great time to be in, or just getting into the hobby.
 
Mar 6, 2023 at 7:40 AM Post #51,180 of 88,648
I really like this point. This is very subjective and I could see someone arguing successfully against it, but I think the issue with IEMs is there’s technologically so much innovation and change still happening, at least it feels that way, more than in other areas like headphones, where the pace is slower. And the benefit is there’s so much good sounding portable gear today, compared to only a couple of years ago. No one HAS to play at these insane price levels to find sonic bliss anymore, just us crazies who choose to. Great time to be in, or just getting into the hobby.
Literally this. There are so many just stupid good sets at unbelievable price points. The raptgo hook x is still my favorite set of cheap IEMs. Planar, bone conduction and a piezoelectric driver at around 200 bucks new msrp is insanity to me. You're not getting Multiverse Mentor resolution, sure, and you wouldn't expect to, but you're getting IEMs batting well above their weight class for what isn't even the cost of most halfway decent cable upgrades. There is a radically different selection available than there was even just a few years ago.
 

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