[boromcom]

I read good feedback about Mystique, any cooler’s impressions?
https://nobleaudio.com/products/fokus-mystique

I plan to demo soon.

 

[gLer]

I know, some will call me crazy, but I will post it anyways. Just have to, because I feel strongly about it:
Could please some of you that also have the focus on musicality rather than on technicalities try the following:
Find a song/piece that was recorded before 2000 and is now published in 96kHz or higher and 44.1khz and compare them for their musicality level (here: flow of music, feeling that e.g. voice, violin or saxophone etc. creates in you).
Put technicalities aside. Do you feel, that HighRes sounds more musical/engaging?
Well I don't. Quite the opposite. Tried this so many times. Mainly, but not only with classical music. And always, without exception, I find 44.1kHz clearly more musical. No matter who is the publisher.
It might be my poor equipment, but somehow I doubt it. But that is why I ask.
Did anyone try and wants to share? But please: "Musicality" only. If you don't dare to publish crazy thoughts, send a PM
(at the moment listening to a 44.1kHz recording of the Beethoven Triple Concerto with Schneiderhahn/Fournier/Anda. Before it was the same recording with 96kHz. Both published by Deutsche Grammophone ... with the usual result)

You're not crazy, and let me double down on this: alot of older music, analogue recordings, and also modern music mastered for car stereos and Bluetooth speakers, sound like on modern, high-end IEMs. So while some people chase the nth degree of technical performance, which on the whole (generalising) is fine with electronic and digital music, older and poorer instrumental and vocal recordings can be seriously exposed by modern gear, and leave you wondering why your music sounds horrid. Hi-res (both files and gear) rewards the highest quality digital recordings, but can be very unforgiving - an unmusical - with a large proportion of the music we enjoy.

 

[JSBachFan]

This has been a controversial topic since the first CD players and DACs were published. Musicality went out of the window with the introduction of CDs but that's not what I'm referring to. Because of my work I was first in line to hear all the "advantages" of first 18 bit, then 1 bit, X-uple oversampling, etcetera. Not for me. I want to listen to the Soul of Music; not to the Sound of Music. No doubt each and every new technique measures better and that's truly a great accomplishment. But I'm in zero hurry to "upgrade" my collection to high resolution versions and prefer to stick with R2R and/or tubes. Vinyl anyone?

drftr

Around 1990 I sold my CD collection and went back to records. Bought a Linn LP12 record player and maintained it to the highest equipment level until I sold it 2017.
Exactly for the reason, that it was so much more musical than any CD player I heard anywhere. But I kept an ear open for digital to catch up.
In my opinion, with a lot of money you now get to almoust the same musical level digital and analog.
In 2017 I found the digital world to have stepped up enough to simplify my world by selling all the vinyl stuff. It included a lifetime (30 years) 3000 LP collection of vinyl collected all over the world that only hosted original pressings. Am I sad about the loss? No. Not really. The great experience of traveling and collecting lies in the past and in my memory. The music sources are still there in a digital form. 44.1Hz appears not to be that bad. It was inferior components that prevented CD music from shining.
No offense to vinyl lovers. Holding a record in your hand and celebrating the listening experience is something special, that people will always prefer to just pressing buttons. I know, what I am talking about, never having used a tonearm lift, since I preferred to put and take away the needle manually.

 

[drftr]

Around 1980 I sold my CD collection and went back to records. Bought a Linn LP12 record player and maintained it to the highest equipment level until I sold it 2017.
Exactly for the reason, that it was so much more musical than any CD player I heard anywhere. But I kept an ear open for digital to catch up.
In my opinion, with a lot of money you now get to almoust the same musical level digital and analog.
In 2017 I found the digital world to have stepped up enough to simplify my world by selling all the vinyl stuff. It included a lifetime (30 years) 3000 LP collection of vinyl collected all over the world that only hosted original pressings. Am I sad about the loss? No. Not really. The great experience of traveling and collecting lies in the past and in my memory. The music sources are still there in a digital form. 44.1Hz appears not to be that bad. It was inferior components that prevented CD music from shining.
No offense to vinyl lovers. Holding a record in your hand and celebrating the listening experience is something special, that people will always prefer to just pressing buttons. I know, what I am talking about, never having used a tonearm lift, since I preferred to put and take away the needle manually.

Sondek LP12 was awesome...

But selling off your CD collection around 1980 would've been a challenge!

drftr

 

[Alexzander]

The Oriolus iem's I own come with wide bore silicone tips but after experimenting I prefer narrow bore silicone, especially with my Szalayi. Do folk with the Traillii tend to use open wide tips or narrow ones?

I find that only stock tips properly reproduce details in each frequency bands.
I can recommend SpinFit CP100(+) if you prefer more narrow bore or Azla Crystal.

 

[JSBachFan]

Sondek LP12 was awesome...

But selling off your CD collection around 1980 would've been a challenge!

drftr

Haha .. you're right. It was 1990

 

[RTodd]

Around 1980 I sold my CD collection and went back to records. Bought a Linn LP12 record player and maintained it to the highest equipment level until I sold it 2017.
Exactly for the reason, that it was so much more musical than any CD player I heard anywhere. But I kept an ear open for digital to catch up.
In my opinion, with a lot of money you now get to almoust the same musical level digital and analog.
In 2017 I found the digital world to have stepped up enough to simplify my world by selling all the vinyl stuff. It included a lifetime (30 years) 3000 LP collection of vinyl collected all over the world that only hosted original pressings. Am I sad about the loss? No. Not really. The great experience of traveling and collecting lies in the past and in my memory. The music sources are still there in a digital form. 44.1Hz appears not to be that bad. It was inferior components that prevented CD music from shining.
No offense to vinyl lovers. Holding a record in your hand and celebrating the listening experience is something special, that people will always prefer to just pressing buttons. I know, what I am talking about, never having used a tonearm lift, since I preferred to put and take away the needle manually.

Love the story, at the time when you were collecting vinyl and traveling I was a starving artist living on white rice kimchi and pickled muscles, working three jobs just to pay tuition and rent. When I hit my stride in my early 30s I could start buying CDs in earnest as the 100s of vinyl records I had collected were all played to a scratch ridden death.

High end audio was something I only ever heard in shops, and the occasional friend that could afford the entry level to that gear. With my limited setup I was never able to hear the difference between 44.1khz and higher bit rates till a year ago when I started shopping for the 2 channel system that I am less than 10 weeks from finally having running.

I plan to take a deeper dive into those formats with that system, on demo with similar systems I was quite shocked and felt in fact it was not only more clear but I heard it as more music and more musical, seemed like I was missing frequencies from what I was used to with my standard lossless 44.1 IEMs w/R2R player, in the car, or various consumer quality speakers around my home.

I am no expert though I guess that there are some frequencies that were clipped in the 44.1khz original recordings, that are now able to interact with each other creating some additional sound as they stack and intertwine.

I do not actually have more than a modest interest in the science of this, much more interested in the experience of listening and letting myself finally hear and live with the best musical experience that the new system can deliver. I plan to share what I discover though I imagine this will take time to fully take in.

 

[maegnificant]

To me personally, the switch from 16 to 24 bit is way more substantial than from 44.1 to 88.2 khz or higher.

The expanded dynamic range makes the music feel a lot more engaging for me.

 

[gooberbm]

Penon really shoots it out the park with this one and I'm glad no one else is having issues with their set or I'm just a very picky person. I cannot wait to get my exchange and listen to it all over again. I'll have another listening impression.

Now that your exchange is official, could you tell us what the issue is that you sent them back over? If something might happen QC-wise, it worth sharing

 

[JSBachFan]

To me personally, the switch from 16 to 24 bit is way more substantial than from 44.1 to 88.2 khz or higher.

The expanded dynamic range makes the music feel a lot more engaging for me.

I haven't tried the 16/24 bit comparison, but I would not be surprised finding your result. To my knowledge, no bad mathematical interpolations have to take place. Therefore I would expect the quality to be better or at least equal. Also on the musical level. Regarding 88.2 khz. I read somewhere that higher frequencies on top of the mathematical interpolations in general cause more jitter. But we read a lot. We should always trust our ears/brain/feeling.

 

[maegnificant]

I haven't tried the 16/24 bit comparison, but I would not be surprised finding your result. To my knowledge, no bad mathematical interpolations have to take place. Therefore I would expect the quality to be better or at least equal. Also on the musical level. Regarding 88.2 khz. I read somewhere that higher frequencies on top of the mathematical interpolations in general cause more jitter. But we read a lot. We should always trust our ears/brain/feeling.

In bandcamp, many flacs are encoded in 44.1khz 24 bit now and it sounds great a lot of music is mastered at 24bit now.

 

[Eoin]

I know, some will call me crazy, but I will post it anyways. Just have to, because I feel strongly about it:
Could please some of you that also have the focus on musicality rather than on technicalities try the following:
Find a song/piece that was recorded before 2000 and is now published in 96kHz or higher and 44.1khz and compare them for their musicality level (here: flow of music, feeling that e.g. voice, violin or saxophone etc. creates in you).
Put technicalities aside. Do you feel, that HighRes sounds more musical/engaging?
Well I don't. Quite the opposite. Tried this so many times. Mainly, but not only with classical music. And always, without exception, I find 44.1kHz clearly more musical. No matter who is the publisher.
It might be my poor equipment, but somehow I doubt it. But that is why I ask.
Did anyone try and wants to share? But please: "Musicality" only. If you don't dare to publish crazy thoughts, send a PM
(at the moment listening to a 44.1kHz recording of the Beethoven Triple Concerto with Schneiderhahn/Fournier/Anda. Before it was the same recording with 96kHz. Both published by Deutsche Grammophone ... with the usual result)

I was never a fan of records, the crackle and pop inherent in the media always took away from the musicality for me. I embraced CDs and never looked back with any hint of regret. Granted at that time I had limited means and my system, while capable, could hardly be described as high end, but had its own soul.

Fast forward to the streaming age and subscription services such as iTunes and Spotify, convenience, unlimited library, music anywhere and whenever I wanted, wireless earphones without cables … the freedom it brought was a game changer for me. But the more the hardware improved the worse the sound became.

Entry into high end audio equipment did not automatically fix the problem, rather it made it seem the detail was somewhat missing, like it was clipped for whatever reason. Streaming services became difficult to listen to with some recordings. Services such as Roon opened a new door to consolidate high quality streaming services and wav/flac files I had into a managed repository that could also function as a source for many Roon Endpoint devices I had. Roon’s “version” function allowed me to compare various versions in 44, 98 196 or MQA quality and I discovered all recordings are not of equal or improving quality relative to the higher the bit rate.

I find myself now choosing versions that sound better rather than better quality as indicated by bit rate. I’m left scratching my head and wondering after all this “investment” in higher end audio, that perhaps I should have taken the blue pill and remained blissfully unaware. But when I do hear something magical that touches my soul in a way that’s hard to put into words, yea, that was an expensive red pill … but ultimately once you can get over the madness, well worth it.

 

[maegnificant]

I'm left scratching my head and wondering after all this “investment” in higher end audio, that perhaps I should have taken the blue pill and remained blissfully unaware. But when I do hear something magical that touches my soul in a way that’s hard to put into words, yea, that was an expensive red pill … but ultimately once you can get over the madness, well worth it.

Sometimes I am not sure which pill is actually which

MQA is a massive scam for example which was proven a while ago.

 

[NewEve]

I just spotted my MDR-1AM2 this morning tucked away in a box, ages since I’ve listened so thought I’d give them a try, and of course hooked up to my trusty WM1A - very enjoyable, and sound better than I anticipated they would.

I actually prefer them over my MDR-1Z…

 

[RTodd]

I was never a fan of records, the crackle and pop inherent in the media always took away from the musicality for me. I embraced CDs and never looked back with any hint of regret. Granted at that time I had limited means and my system, while capable, could hardly be described as high end, but had its own soul.

Fast forward to the streaming age and subscription services such as iTunes and Spotify, convenience, unlimited library, music anywhere and whenever I wanted, wireless earphones without cables … the freedom it brought was a game changer for me. But the more the hardware improved the worse the sound became.

Entry into high end audio equipment did not automatically fix the problem, rather it made it seem the detail was somewhat missing, like it was clipped for whatever reason. Streaming services became difficult to listen to with some recordings. Services such as Roon opened a new door to consolidate high quality streaming services and wav/flac files I had into a managed repository that could also function as a source for many Roon Endpoint devices I had. Roon’s “version” function allowed me to compare various versions in 44, 98 196 or MQA quality and I discovered all recordings are not of equal or improving quality relative to the higher the bit rate.

I find myself now choosing versions that sound better rather than better quality as indicated by bit rate. I’m left scratching my head and wondering after all this “investment” in higher end audio, that perhaps I should have taken the blue pill and remained blissfully unaware. But when I do hear something magical that touches my soul in a way that’s hard to put into words, yea, that was an expensive red pill … but ultimately once you can get over the madness, well worth it.

Here is my plan, in the listening room I also have coming in a Steinway grand piano equipped with Spirio, this system takes analog recordings of piano music and digitizes it, resulting in over a thousand parameters for each key stroke and pedal move. Often approved by the artist, and in some cases recorded by the artist on a piano equipped with the system. From my understanding of this, a group of audiophile minded engineers then tweak the program to make sure every bit of the artist color is captured.
I should be able to find examples of recordings in various formats that have also been captured for Spirio play back.

I can then compare in the same room sitting in the sweet spot of the Wilson towers, the piano in the opposite corner of the space, placed so that same sweet spot is also a great position for hearing the soundboard of the piano.

I was very lucky in life to be able to do this.
My blue pill was of the horse pill variety.

This is going to take me time, I have to fine tune everything, and then use it for hours upon hours over months, before I learn to hear this. I can compare a system designed to represent, in this case, a piano live with dynamic drivers and all the chain hardware optimized, to the actual instrument for an A to B comparison.

Layer on top of that different sampling rates different bit rates, may take the rest of my life to get my brain around it.

Picture of the project when I pulled in on Saturday second floor is the location of the listening room.
This is a barn conversion.