[drftr]

Edit: as an argument, i suspect that people who are looking to have a variety of flavours in tuning. Graphs will be almost useless....

That's probably the key.

drftr

 

[Eoin]

Yeah, I'm not sure what I've achieved is a compliment to the Fourte Noir. On one end, what I'm hearing right now is the best IEM I have. It has all the strengths of the Trailli (huge dramatic soundstage, realistic and natural timbre) WITHOUT the weaknesses (no venting pressure build-up, BA bass) -- but at what price? Out of the box the Fourte doesn't work for me at all, and the Noir edition alone didn't much fix those problems.

Both the power and the analogue sound help with the c9. The c9 is unparallelled in its technicalities. The sp3000's Digital Audio Resampling, too, has a way of smoothing some of that Noir treble away. But that's not where things end! You know what's extra crazy? I forgot to mention something else in my chain. It's actually: sp3000 - 1960s interconnect - c9 (3/4 Orbtronic batteries) - Orpheus - Noir. The batteries too! I spent a year trying to get these Orbtronic batteries into the UK (https://www.orbtronic.com/18650-battery) as shipping batteries is complicated. I finally got them and they significantly blacken the c9 background and cut down on bass a bit. I use 3 Orbtronics and 1 original battery, as I've found that to be the best ratio. Yes. I get 30% original batteries sound / 70% Orbtronics sound. (I know some people say you're not supposed to mix batteries but I haven't had any trouble yet) I think it's just WILD that you can shape the bass on your IEMs by mixing two types of batteries in the amp. That's what I love about the c9. So much customizability.

But it goes to show you how much you need to mess around with correcting the Noir (I'm sure you don't have to do the batteries trick to get them great, I'm just showing off with how much attention I've put into this thing...)



Solid State plus AB. The Noir does not need any textural warmth (tubes) or bass punch (A). And I use Orbtronic batteries too, which further "sculpts" the bass down a bit

You're crazy in a good way , I admire your persistence (3 years) in finding the right combination. I wouldn't have the patience to search for the ultimate synergy to the extent you have done. But your post has me thinking a C9 may very well be in my future. The Orpheus is perhaps a bridge too far for me, I have heard the synergy cables can impart, even that 1960's interconnect is doing its thing in the chain for sure.

I only got into this HeadFi hobby a few months ago with the goal of finding the best sounding setup (for me) at a given point in time, I'm almost there regarding my DAP and 3 IEM set. Absolutely the SP3000 and Viking Ragnar, they were from the moment I first heard them and still are my only choice, absolutely incredible. I can't imagine anything better, the remaining 2 IEMs would be just for something different.

Regarding the batteries, which I have quite extensive experience with being a vaper, I'm curious for future reference, which exact model of the Orbtronic did you opt for?.
I see the have re-branded Panasonic, Toshiba & Sony as Orbtronic, depending on the model, you'd possibly find it in its original form quite easily. Did you ever try fogstar.co.uk?.

It is perfectly ok to mix batteries of similar technology, chemistry, capacity and drain amperage, however, once combined as a set from new, they should always be used, charged and discharged as a set. It's more to do with the ageing process that occurs with use, when kept together they degrade more uniformly.

Anyway, thanks for the post, I really enjoyed reading it, food for thought

 

[daijobudes]

Hi guys,



I’m glad to find the headfi family is doing great after over a year of absence!

I wish I could have been more active but let’s be honest, it would be an understatement to say this last year in Shanghai hasn’t been the most auspicious for audio gear hunting…

Anyways, now the hardest seems to be behind and it finally is time to get back in business!!



I’ve been checking the shops around to try some of the newer releases but sadly I couldn’t find many of the big guns people rave about on the forum, like Jewel, MM, Ragnar, Sultan, Kr5, Xe6 to demo.



However, I managed to demo some other pretty cool stuff that I’ll try to describe briefly. I didn’t take notes so all impressions are from memory and mostly only few songs per set.

Taste wise I lean more towards the warmish side of the force and I was mostly searching for a set to complement Traillii with preferably no BA bass, more sub bass rumble and upper range presence.

All tested through L&P LP6 Gold.

Also, I won’t spend much words on those that didn’t work for me.

Oh! And yeah! As always, YMMV a loooot!

• AK Pathfinder : not much to say, not bad, not great, nothing special, didn’t move me much… beautiful design though!

• Fourté Blanc : excellent overall! Fantastic bass, soundstage, air and details. Super comfortable, no pressure feeling. Not the best for isolation, upper range tonality that I find disturbing on some songs (same issue with other Fourté and U18T).

• Softear Turii OG : very pleasant set, just missing isolation and a bit more meat/bass presence.

• U12T : these are clearly not new release, but I just wanted to give them a ride after many years not hearing them. I must say they still sound glorious! The best sounding 64Audio IMHO. It’s easy to see why so many people rank them so highly! Can’t really fault them for anything! They can take on anything you throw at them and play it marvelously. Their only problem could be they are not the best at anything… I could see myself purchasing one of those someday, especially for the price they can be found on the 2nd hand market.

• EE Evo : great bass, great bass and great bass! I didn’t like it much the first time I demoed it but the second time I found it very satisfying. The bass eats a little too much everything else at times though. Annoying driver flex.

• CFA Supermoon : very cool set! I love planar sound! Probably the best close back planar IEM. Much preferred them compared to Euclid. Still a farcry from LCD i4 on some aspects though, but it’s getting there!!

• CFA Trifecta : this one was actually a surprise! Reading all the divided opinions about them I was expecting something weirder (in a good or bad way). I actually quite liked them! Not the most technical set, but the low end felt satisfying and the soundstage is amongst the biggest I’ve heard in any IEM.

• VE phœnix : really liked this one overall! Just didn’t differentiate itself from Traillii in the areas I was looking for.

• VE Ext : this one was getting closer to what I was after. Very good sub bass and trebles but in the end there’s other sets I preferred.

• Hifiman Svanar : interesting set, nice analog feel, decent bass but a little sloppy on some fast tracks (maybe the demo set wasn’t fully burn in?). Spacious soundstage. Cymbals and hit-hats a little too splashy .

Now we’re getting at my 2 favorites from this little hunt :

• EE Odyssey : I demoed it 3 times and really like it a lot! In fact it was pretty much exactly what I was after in terms of tuning to complement Traillii. Still leaning towards warmth and musicality but with more emphasis on sub bass, brighter overall mids and a bit more treble presence. The sub bass rumble provided by the DD+BCD is truly excellent without ever being overkill like it can be on the EVO. I was going to pull the trigger and buy the Odyssey until I tried the next set >>

• Noble Kublai Khan : those guys were hiding in a corner so I didn’t know they had it for demo! Fortunately at the last minute I managed to give those a listen and oh boy do they sound great! Actually, during my short A/Bing between KK and Ody I felt they were fairly similar to each other in terms of tuning on the lower half of the spectrum, with the major difference residing in the upper range. KK felt a bit brighter and revealing, which was a good thing. In the end I ended up buying KK. When factoring in the price difference, the size (KK is big but Ody is humongous!!) and the very annoying driver flex of Ody (KK has a little bit also but nothing to compare), it didn’t make sense to go for Odyssey.

KK vs Traillii : despite Traillii being nearly 3 times the price (though shipped with a $2000 cable to be fair), I think they play in the same league SQ wise. Traillii is more of a layback and relaxed listening that will be less tiring for the long listening sessions, while KK is more in your face for the detail retrieval. The piezo tweeter on the KK acts like a detail magnifier!! For example on “Bad Liar” by Imagine Dragons at the very beginning of the song you can hear some sort of rain or crackling. With Traillii at normal to low listening volume you might not notice it if you don’t pay attention. It’s there but very faint, while with KK you hear it instantly. KK is quite the monster for treble detail perception, in fact one of the very best I’ve got to hear. The counter part of that though is that it can get a little more tiresome for long sessions, especially while listening to brighter recordings like Genesis for example where Phill Collins voice and cymbals/hit-hats can get a little hot after a while (I’m very sensitive to high mids and trebles). KK never gets harsh, but I prefer the more relaxed approach of Traillii to listen to this kind of recordings, or for female vocals in general.

For electro music though KK is quite the treat! The fantastic sub bass rumble coupled with the crazy details makes for a memorable experience! BTW regarding the sub bass, I personally got the best BCD effect from the Final E tips. Them being smaller than average allows for a deeper fit which most likely benefits the BCD.



On the soundstage, I feel Traillii is a bit bigger but KK might be deeper. The imaging and separation on KK are impressive, they actually both are!! Tough to pick a winner on this one…



One thing I like about KK compared to Traillii is the fact that they do transmit a lot less microphonics from the cable. Traillii being fully closed is quite bad at that.



Cable wise, the stock KK cable is pretty nice! Very supple and nice looking. On the SQ aspect however I noticed more air and separation as well as a tighter and more controlled overall presentation while swapping to the Beat Audio Billow cable.



Also, never underestimate the power of burn in!! After a week and a half of intense burn in, my KK transformed radically!! They opened up so much that they sound like true open backs now :



Alright… little joke aside, the saddest part of the story is that I broke them while trying to take nice pictures to make a review and ended up with just this pic above!!!

They dropped on a stone table from less than a meter high and just shattered like glass… I wouldn’t have imagined it could break that easily. Maybe I just got unlucky… Also it was quite cold so it might have played a role, who knows… Just you guys be careful to your Precious!! They are very fragile toys!!

Anyways, now they are back to Noble for fixing… Waiting for the feedback about the price. If it’s just a reshelling it shouldn’t be too expensive but if one of the drivers got damaged that might be another story… let’s see.


Oh wait!! There’s more!! I kept the best for the end!!


If you thought Trifecta was controversial in its analog tuning and that Traillii was a little too eco friendly with its packaging for its price tag, wait to see those guys!!!

The Rosenkranz Silver KS (Kaiser Sound) single DD :





Those guys come at 32000 CNY which is about $4700 and are just delivered in a poor cardboard box with NOTHING else!!! No cable, no ear tips, no case… just… nothing… but those 2 silver monitors…

Oh and it seems they even have another flagship model that’s around $9000, delivered with the same packaging!!!

From what I understand, all their monitors are handmade and they only make 5 per month. No wonder it’s expensive.

I didn’t get to try the $9000 ones, but I actually liked a lot the sound of the Silver KS! It’s veeerrryy…. Special!!

It’s gotta be the most analog sound I’ve heard from an IEM!! Very warm yet detailed, incredible bass and one of, if not The biggest soundstage I witnessed on an IEM. I’m actually very impressed by the technicalities they managed to pull out of a single DD, especially with this warm, borderline dark tuning. I have no doubt many of you would think they sound like a pail of sh1te!! Even more so when putting in perspective with the price, but I’m personally considering taking one for myself! They are just totally different than anything else! They do take a little brain adjustment at the beginning, but after a while they just sound so good and full of emotion! Definitely an acquired taste! I wouldn’t advise a blind buy one this one!!



I hope my post isn’t too long and boring! My poor English grammar and vocabulary isn’t helping unfortunately…



Wish you all the best,



Cheers,



Julien

Thanks for the impressions, they’re great! Enjoy Your new toy, I hope Wizard support works great in China?
Glad You like Rosenkranz, hope this Boutique brand will get a little more attention it deserves. They seem to be somewhat similar to Kondo Audio Note JP.
I only tried their cables and they all sounded terrific.
Did you manage to try QDC?

 

[RTodd]

Edit: as an argument, i suspect that people who are looking to have a variety of flavours in tuning. Graphs will be almost useless....

Agree, that’s me, rather than almost useless I would say less helpful. Looking at the XE6 graph for example I would have thought the mids were too elevated, and that is the rub for many that hear it, for me it is a large part of what makes it a standout set, along with the open driver BC impact, and the nice detail of the treble.

XE6 is actually a great example of the limitations of graphs for me to make any sort of buying decision solely based on the graph. Luckily I can use my ears before I buy, a luxury I am lucky to have due to where I call home.

 

[DaveStarWalker]

Speaking of FR Graphs

Lol, so right.

That said, a target curve... Is "only" a target... curve. And about a resulted curve.

For me, they are so much more important things, as the time correlation between the drivers, the homogeneity between the drivers, the phase alignment, a flat impedance curve, a clean waterfall, a clean distorsion profile (correlated to frequencies), the design of the filter (serial, parallel...), the diverse efficiencies, etc.

And about the vibratory behaviours, the shape of the shells, the length and diameter of inner tubes, the correlated resonnances, the length and shapes of the nozzles, etc.

But a target curve is "just" the easiest and the more obvious part of a whole complexe sound equation.

 

[Doug2507]

Thanks for the impressions, they’re great! Enjoy Your new toy, I hope Wizard support works great in China?
Glad You like Rosenkranz, hope this Boutique brand will get a little more attention it deserves. They seem to be somewhat similar to Kondo Audio Note JP.
I only tried their cables and they all sounded terrific.
Did you manage to try QDC?

Ooh, similar in what regard to Kondo, being boutique or sound?

 

[daijobudes]

Ooh, similar in what regard to Kondo, being boutique or sound?

Philosophy

 

[JSBachFan]

You CAN improve your listening skills.
Here is something I think worth to be posted here, that I stumbled upon yesterday while cooking
We audiophile listeners might not be as weird as "normal" people might think. It has recently been proven, that you can learn to listen.
Of course some physical issues with our ears can stand in the way, but even in pretty old age certain areas in the brain responsible for audio processing can be activated and can even get bigger by intensively listening to music. This was assumed for a long time but not been proven. What has already been proven is, that musicians have larger and more active brain areas responsible for audio processing, but it has so far not been proven, that you can acitvely train that area. Now based on a huge study that has been conducted in Germany and Switzerland it has finally been proven.
Found a podcast about this case in a renowned (sorry) German podcast from Deutschlandfunk. Whoever here is able to listen to this ...
Wunder des Hörens (the wonder of hearing)
So often people tell me they are just not able to hear the differences that I can because of their ears. From now on I will reply that they could learn it if they wanted to ...
Of course the question is, whether it is a good thing for your wallet or your family life to be able to hear differences.

 

[twister6]

I've tried IEMs that follow the Harman curve and find them too shouty in the upper midrange.

However, in headphones it is my preferred profile. I've tried many headphones, and I like all of them much better if I equalize them to follow the Harman curve

In addition to your comment about eqing, I also find another interesting observation when it comes to iems vs headphones.

When dealing with iems the essence of the sound often comes directly from their unique tuning where the source just fine-tunes it. But with headphones you often read about people emphasizing how the source can literally make it or break it, especially coloring with tubes and Class A amplification.

I can only speak from my personal limited experience of being heavily vested into a portable setup with iems and daps. But when I attend CanJam shows and try to drive some of the headphones with a dap I have on hand (even powerful enough), I get disappointed. Then, manufacturers at the table tell me, forget about it, try this desktop dac driving this fancy amp, and it does sound night and day. And sometimes it's not just about the power, but the actual coloring of the amp which improves the sound. Sort of like you mentioning about the need to eq.

I don't have a lot of full size cans, but with a few I do have, like Beyer T5p 2nd get or ATH R70x or Meze Empyrean, I spend more time trying to figure out the source. Btw, hype alert, Aroma Air Bluetooth dac/amp is so good with demanding headphones

 

[RTodd]

You CAN improve your listening skills

There is something I think worth to be posted here, that I stumbled upon yesterday while cooking
We audiophile listeners might not be as weird as "normal" people might think. It has recently been proven, that you can learn to listen (!)
Of course some physical issues with your ears can stand in the way but even in pretty old age certain areas in the brain can be activated and can get bigger by intensively listening to music. It has even been proven, that your professional ability to hear is improving. This is based on a huge study that has been conducted in Germany and Switzerland recently.
Found this in a renowned German (sorry) podcast Deutschlandfunk. Whoever here is able to listen to this ...
here is the link: Wunder des Hörens (the wonder of hearing)
I so often hear, that people are just not able to hear the differences that I hear. From now on I will reply that they could learn it if they wanted to ...
Of course the question is, whether it is a good thing for your pocket or your family live to be able to hear differences.

I have learned to hear these past couple years, and fairly sure that learning is not over.

Life long learning, the brain is an amazing bio chemical electrical design with plasticity making new connections between neurons every night while we sleep. I would wager that the advancement of our species our understanding of the universe and our further developments of tools for our species is due to this.

From generation to generation the brain has not fundamentally changed at all, yet the next generation will wire those neurons incorporating the advancements of the generations that came before. Building on that continuing to advance.

Bio chemical electrical force multiplier, at work for thousands of years.

 

[Amadeo Nospherathu]

You CAN improve your listening skills

There is something I think worth to be posted here, that I stumbled upon yesterday while cooking
We audiophile listeners might not be as weird as "normal" people might think. It has recently been proven, that you can learn to listen (!)
Of course some physical issues with your ears can stand in the way but even in pretty old age certain areas in the brain can be activated and can get bigger by intensively listening to music. It has even been proven, that your professional ability to hear is improving. This is based on a huge study that has been conducted in Germany and Switzerland recently.
Found this in a renowned German (sorry) podcast Deutschlandfunk. Whoever here is able to listen to this ...
here is the link: Wunder des Hörens (the wonder of hearing)
I so often hear, that people are just not able to hear the differences that I hear. From now on I will reply that they could learn it if they wanted to ...
Of course the question is, whether it is a good thing for your pocket or your family live to be able to hear differences.

Well, intuitively I guessed that it was. Interestingly, there is now a study that confirms this.
Of course, I never thought that audiophiles were any different. Like superheroes or athletes. Of course everyone has their own hearing acuity etc, but I've also always believed that it can be trained. Well, that is, if I could, why can't others? After all, good results can be achieved in athletics. I'm not saying that everyone can become an outstanding Olympian, but reach a certain good level. Or, for example, to memorize many poems, etc.
So it's like any other hobby. It takes a little time and effort to train your hearing.

Another thing is that I sincerely believe that few people need it. Otherwise, our favorite things would cost several times more. If only everyone knew that not every pair of headphones you can buy at any store window will be good.

 

[Amadeo Nospherathu]

I can only speak from my personal limited experience of being heavily vested into a portable setup with iems and daps. But when I attend CanJam shows and try to drive some of the headphones with a dap I have on hand (even powerful enough), I get disappointed. Then, manufacturers at the table tell me, forget about it, try this desktop dac driving this fancy amp, and it does sound night and day. And sometimes it's not just about the power, but the actual coloring of the amp which improves the sound. Sort of like you mentioning about the need to eq.

Of course, there is an individual combination. And it depends on taste preferences. There were cases when it was a matter of device compatibility. Formally - according to the characteristics, etc., it is worth noting that it is the source drives the headphones/IEMs well, but when listening to it, it is disappointing. While both devices are great individually, they are worth the money and certainly not bad.

 

[DaveStarWalker]

Well, intuitively I guessed that it was. Interestingly, there is now a study that confirms this.
Of course, I never thought that audiophiles were any different. Like superheroes or athletes. Of course everyone has their own hearing acuity etc, but I've also always believed that it can be trained. Well, that is, if I could, why can't others? After all, good results can be achieved in athletics. I'm not saying that everyone can become an outstanding Olympian, but reach a certain good level. Or, for example, to memorize many poems, etc.
So it's like any other hobby. It takes a little time and effort to train your hearing.

Another thing is that I sincerely believe that few people need it. Otherwise, our favorite things would cost several times more. If only everyone knew that not every pair of headphones you can buy at any store window will be good.

Completely agree.

The very first hearing organ is the brain.

And it should feed with cultural references. As much as possible.

Hearing is like a muscle, like taste, like eyes. It as to be trained and educated, to reinforce it and refine it.

 

[Amadeo Nospherathu]

Completely agree.

The very first hearing organ is the brain.

And it should feed with cultural references. As much as possible.

Hearing is like a muscle, like taste, like eyes. It is trained and educated, to reinforce it and refine it.

Yes, I agree.
Due to physical characteristics, not everyone can repair watches, etc. But even a real master, who now does it with ease, did not do it immediately, as soon as he decided to do it.

 

[Scubadevils]

I couldn’t resist more from JVC, especially at almost half price. Mixed reviews out there, and not very many but I know @Nostoi enjoyed, and I’ve no doubt they’ll have that JVC wood timbre I’ve come to adore lately.

JVC HA-SW01