The Watercooler -- Impressions, philosophical discussion and general banter. Index on first page. All welcome.

[Mehran]

The Dorado is killing me right now.
Hearing Bonham murdering the drums never sounded better.

 

[Rockwell75]

Open question: When talking about the technical performance of an IEM what exactly are you (personally) referring to/thinking of? For me this includes things like detail, resolution, speed, imaging, coherence and most importantly how they all play together...ie., it's not simply a matter of more = better in any category.

 

[drftr]

Open question: When talking about the technical performance of an IEM what exactly are you (personally) referring to/thinking of? For me this includes things like detail, resolution, speed, imaging, coherence and most importantly how they all play together...ie., it's not simply a matter of more = better in any category.

Some thoughts based on yours is categorizing them:

timbre, note weight, coherency
pace, rhythm, timing
speed, dynamics, transients, decay
imaging, staging
detail, resolution

(ranked top-down for my own preferences)

drftr

 

[ian91]

Some thoughts based on yours is categorizing them:

timbre, coherency
pace, rhythm, timing
speed, dynamics, transients, decay
imaging, staging
detail, resolution

(ranked top-down for my own preferences)

drftr

I struggle with the concepts of pace, rhythm and timing, always have.

My technical parameters are: stage, imaging, instrument separation, layering, resolution, speed (transients and dynamics), coherency. I prefer to think of timbre last, as a product of tonal properties plus the realism of attack/sustain/decay and the information conveyed therein.

 

[drftr]

I struggle with the concepts of pace, rhythm and timing, always have.

This is the part that makes me move with the music: Tapping my feet, bobbing my head, someone else might want to get up and dance instead. For me it's most notable when listening to jazz with a lot of rhythm going on. With some IEMs I just "hear" what's going on and find it okay but boring, uninviting. While other IEMs may have the exact same tonality, etcetera, but DO it for me: I feel like I'm the instrument that is being played and I move parts of my body going along with the rhythm (while melody mostly plays in my head).

It's like everything is completely in tune, like with an exceptionally well playing band. Mentioning this, one of the best examples may actually BE The Band: Everything they played was always EXACTLY in tune, as if played by a machine.

For me exactly THIS part is musicality, and even if I'm listening to a horrible historical recording through a crappy speaker on top of that, there are still ways to make me completely drown in the music and forget about everything else. The best examples for me outside of IEMs (and better examples at that) are tube amplifiers and planar speakers.

drftr

 

[endless402]

That's a perfect example of someone who seems to have different sonic priorities than me. Honestly if Traillii doesn't have top tier technical performance then I don't know what would. YMMV and all that.

not to mention the source equipment that was being used....dont like to rag on equipment but why listen to $5000 iems on a $100 source...

 

[feverfive]

Open question: When talking about the technical performance of an IEM what exactly are you (personally) referring to/thinking of? For me this includes things like detail, resolution, speed, imaging, coherence and most importantly how they all play together...ie., it's not simply a matter of more = better in any category.

I focus on detail retrieval and imaging/instrument placement using tracks with which I have tons of familiarity.

EDIT: A more complete response --- I have a minimum threshold for detail retrieval & imaging that if are not met, nothing else (even much lauded "tuning") will matter to me.

 

[Tchoupitoulas]

If I may ask, which of those impressed you the most?

I should be clear that I have yet to hear the Ara, the SR25, or the N3 Pro.

The Ara is on my list because I'm a fan of Campfire Audio IEMs and own the Andro 2020 and the original Solaris. I have a feeling, based on triangulating my own preferences with the impressions of those whose tastes I'm familiar with, that I'd get along well with the Ara's tuning. I also suspect it could make for a nice complement to the other two. And with a 30% Black Friday discount, I could probably sell them for minimal loss. This same last consideration also applies to the AK SR25. Here it's the battery life that appeals most to me, and the release of the Mk II makes this DAP's price quite tempting now. The N3 Pro is again based on others' favorable impressions, including our host @Rockwell75's praise of its pairing with the Andro 2020. Honestly, I'm a sucker for tube amps in my desktop setup and love the idea of bringing some of the qualities of tubes to my IEMs.

This leaves the two I've actually heard, the Isabellae and the M6 Pro 21.

The Isa is the best dynamic driver IEM I've auditioned, at least for my preferences (for reference, this includes the Dunu Zen and IE 900). My impressions of it appear a few pages back, here. It may not be the most technically accomplished IEM, and it's lacking in both bass and treble extension, but it makes for the most emotionally engaging and immersive, pleasant listen I've had with IEMs under $1K. Only the Andro 2020 and the Odin, so far, have bested it at keeping me thoroughly engrossed in the music. I've yet to hear a good many IEMs, though, including the Elysium, which I suspect may offer many of the same qualities. Also, at $500, the Isa is something that could be sold for minimal loss although, having heard it, I'm not sure that I'd have any reason to sell it. That said, the new Dunu Zen Pro sounds very appealing; the only issue with the Isa, conceivably, would be that I'd rather invest the money in the Zen Pro.

Here's how I feel, ultimately, about the Isa: if I were to win the lottery, I'd go hog wild and buy the Traillii and other exotic IEMs. But I'd still get the Isa.

The M6 Pro 21 is an astonishingly good DAP for the price. Its tuning tilts slightly upward, by which I mean that it has some treble emphasis. This is desirable with my Andromeda 2020 because it offsets that IEMs' darker tuning, making the overall pairing quite synergistic and neutral. My concerns with the M6 Pro 21 are how well it would work with brighter IEMs as well as its battery life. Here again the SR25 is very appealing.

 

[Scubadevils]

I just shared some early impressions on Facebook, dropping them here too!

I have had quality time with the DUNU ZEN PRO tour unit since yesterday and I've no doubt as to its clear step up from the original ZEN. I've tested numerous tracks, going back and forth between the two, noting my findings for each. I don't have the expertise to deep dive into technicalities but do my best to relay what I hear. I'm using the stock cable and AET07 tips on both IEMs.

An immediate and obvious improvement is a greater amount of space/air on the stage, allowing instruments to shine individually with improved timbre and an overall more cohesive whole. There is a sense of air that allows much more detail retrieval with no congestion.

The stage feels about the same size in dimension terms, maybe a bit bigger, but loses an at times wooly and harsh presentation which occurred on the ZEN when there are several instruments and vocals competing for space. The soundstage for me is perfect, a wonderful amount of space with instruments sitting where they should.

There is a reduction in bass which for me is an acceptable trade off for the marked improvements elsewhere. Kick drums when testing techno for example are more than adequate for my ears with a very nice thud - though not as dense as ZEN. Sub bass rumbles sufficiently and happily fuels the needs of say D&B. Upright bass in jazz sounds incredible, well positioned, sitting where it should. Though I must note, they don't compete with buds...

In isolation, the mids feel about the same and both quite beautiful for female vocals. The challenge on ZEN as previously noted is when the mids are competing for space, it can become cluttered and harsh, especially in more challenging/busy passages. I'm reluctant to compare to other single DDs for now in detail but a highly regarded DD from another brand failed when it came to female vocals versus ZEN PRO, sounding thin and lifeless compared to rich, smooth and engaging.

Treble is perfectly presented for my ears and higher frequencies can bother me. There is just enough there for me to enjoy complex drumming with a lot of frantic cymbals etc without ever becoming harsh.

Still only my 2nd day of testing but any genre I've tried has sounded fantastic, ZEN PRO can comfortably tick that all-rounder box and delivers a beautifully engaging, coherent and emotionally engaging listening experience. I'll be testing versus other DDs in my collection over the next few days, interesting to see how it competes.

It will be moving to the next tour participant next week but I'll certainly add this to my list of planned purchases. I'm a single DD fan and this is an essential addition to the collection... Apologies I can't delve into the technicalities that many look for in these impressions, still learning and I'll only discuss what I understand!

 

[gLer]

Last night, for the first time in a decade or so I stopped listening to an album before it ended. Never happens. Worst, I only got through a couple of minutes, which is the greatest offense possible in my life as you never ever stop a song while it's still playing. Worst yet, it was when listening to one of my top 3 albums Wish You Were Here through my XM4. At the moment the vocals kicked in within a second or 2 I thought "Why the heck did they replace the singer???". So now my love-hate relationship with my XM4's has become one of, well..., hate. Going forward I will only listen to new music through them. Totally sucks when you have a great memory coupled with too high a reference. The good news for Sony is that it's only me whole really dislikes them as the rest of the world is of the opinion that they're absolutely teriffic for the price. Fair enough...

drftr

Yep, I'm part of the rest of the world . I think the XM4 is fantastic, and not just for the price. Your post inspired me to play some Wish You Were Here before bed, and I'm listening as I type. Is it as good as I've ever heard it? Of course not. Is it still good? It's better than good - it's great. I'm listening to the 2011 Remaster, released in 24/192, and even though I'm getting a lossy 24/96 max due to LDAC limitations, it's still better than I would have heard it with most headphones 20 years ago. Just make sure you're using the XM4 with good silicone tips and an Android phone (for LDAC). It's much weaker with AAC and foam/stock tips.

That's a perfect example of someone who seems to have different sonic priorities than me. Honestly if Traillii doesn't have top tier technical performance then I don't know what would. YMMV and all that.

Nevermind YMMV. Traillii has S-level technicalities. Anything less and, for me, they're using different criteria to score technicalities than the generally agreed definition.

Open question: When talking about the technical performance of an IEM what exactly are you (personally) referring to/thinking of? For me this includes things like detail, resolution, speed, imaging, coherence and most importantly how they all play together...ie., it's not simply a matter of more = better in any category.

I just typed up a similar answer in the Crin thread, since his article on technicalities mentions NONE of these. My understanding is exactly the same as yours. Cut and paste, this is my list:

• Resolution
• Clarity
• Detail (yes all three are different)
• Imaging
• Separation
• Dynamics
• Speed
• Soundstage

This is the part that makes me move with the music: Tapping my feet, bobbing my head, someone else might want to get up and dance instead.

I consider this more aligned with tonality. Same as musicality. But I can see how speed/timing can be seen as a technical aspect.

 

[F700]

I certainly don't want to part with my tour unit!

Eagerly waiting for your impressions, but hey, clean up the nozzles before sending them to the next tour member. I think I am in 4th position in the tour and you are not helping me keeping a ZEN attitude. My cheap 7Hz Timeless and ZEN OG are waiting…

 

[drftr]

I consider this more aligned with tonality

For me it isn't at all

I'm using Spinfit CP360 by the way.

drftr

 

[Scubadevils]

Eagerly waiting for your impressions, but hey, clean up the nozzles before sending them to the next tour member. I think I am in 4th position in the tour and you are not helping me keeping a ZEN attitude. My cheap 7Hz Timeless and ZEN OG are waiting…

At least they will have clocked up many hours by the time they land with you - I've already had them running for about 30 hours! I've not pulled the trigger yet on 7Hz - still being seduced by another DD, even though I don't need one!

 

[Scubadevils]

Actually, would someone be so kind as to explain what 'speed' means in the context of technicalities?

 

[F700]

At least they will have clocked up many hours by the time they land with you - I've already had them running for about 30 hours! I've not pulled the trigger yet on 7Hz - still being seduced by another DD, even though I don't need one!

You don’t need, you WANT! …like many of us. Your first impressions about the ZEN Pro are very welcomed. Really appreciated.

About the 7Hz Timeless, well, up to you, I think these deliver some freshness into the crowded IEMs game. As I said in the dedicated thread, these are baby LCD-X.