[drftr]

With a little help from my friends @slumberman, @Tokpakorlo, and @Deezel177 I spent way too much time on EQ experiments over the past week. The reason that I did in the first place was trying to find a way to potentially make Onyx work for me the way I wanted to, and I thought experimenting with my current setup as a preparation (which includes a great parametric Lotoo equalizer) would give me a headstart.

At the end of the week I had narrowed the influence of the equalizer all the way down to barely 2 -0.5 dB steps though and still wasn't satisfied. Of course 2 tiny corrections didn't even come close to what I had in mind as these steps on paper barely do anything for amplifying/attenuating certain frequencies, but it somehow still did something I didn't like at all. Without having the technical background to explain or prove this (other than that anyone can try for himself) I guess what I'm hearing is that apart from attenuating for instance a pure 5 kHz tone of which I could clearly hear the effect of, something happened to a great many other tones that were clearly not even near that 5 kHz. What I now think happens with EQ-ing (and that probably makes sense) is that when I attenuate a 5 kHz tone, not only do I attenuate exactly that tone, but also all kinds of other tones that have all kinds of under- and overtones (harmonics) of that 5 kHz tone in them.

I found it strange that for instance recordings of small ensembles started to sound like if the air was sucked out between the instruments, and that their natural echoes that help pinpoint imaging within the soundstage stopped being there, or at least they didn't seem to be connected in a natural way any longer. From what originally sounded like a great 2 mic setup recording it turned into something in which every instrument was recorded with its own mic in a separate room and then mixed together to recreate a seemingly authentic natural recording - except that it didn't. So what I think is happening with even the slightest EQ-ing of a certain frequency, is that not only does it influence that one tone, but also all other tones that have some harmonics related to that tone in them, sucks that one part out (exaggerated, as it's just attenuating them) and breaks the natural decay (and timbre?) of any tone. Probably the natural dying out of for instance a 500 Hz tone that has just been played has a handful of harmonics from a 5 kHz tone from which perhaps the middle one gets cut out this way, leading to some kind of unnatural reverb? And when you try to EQ more than just one tone this cuts out even more harmonics of that natural reverb of many other tones and the echoes of the instruments of that natural 2 mic recording are not working together any longer to give you the natural impression of them being played in one space right there in front of you. So you clearly hear the instruments in order, but something doesn't add up any longer.

My experiments worked for finding the best handful of techniques to EQ to reach a certain effect so I'm certainly happy with that part. It's just that I'm not ready to accept the by-effects from a nerdy audiophile point of view just yet.

If anyone has a better and well educated response to what I'm actually hearing then I'm all ears!

drftr

 

[RBYRER]

With a little help from my friends @slumberman, @Tokpakorlo, and @Deezel177 I spent way too much time on EQ experiments over the past week. The reason that I did in the first place was trying to find a way to potentially make Onyx work for me the way I wanted to, and I thought experimenting with my current setup as a preparation (which includes a great parametric Lotoo equalizer) would give me a headstart.

At the end of the week I had narrowed the influence of the equalizer all the way down to barely 2 -0.5 dB steps though and still wasn't satisfied. Of course 2 tiny corrections didn't even come close to what I had in mind as these steps on paper barely do anything for amplifying/attenuating certain frequencies, but it somehow still did something I didn't like at all. Without having the technical background to explain or prove this (other than that anyone can try for himself) I guess what I'm hearing is that apart from attenuating for instance a pure 5 kHz tone of which I could clearly hear the effect of, something happened to a great many other tones that were clearly not even near that 5 kHz. What I now think happens with EQ-ing (and that probably makes sense) is that when I attenuate a 5 kHz tone, not only do I attenuate exactly that tone, but also all kinds of other tones that have all kinds of under- and overtones (harmonics) of that 5 kHz tone in them.

I found it strange that for instance recordings of small ensembles started to sound like if the air was sucked out between the instruments, and that their natural echoes that help pinpoint imaging within the soundstage stopped being there, or at least they didn't seem to be connected in a natural way any longer. From what originally sounded like a great 2 mic setup recording it turned into something in which every instrument was recorded with its own mic in a separate room and then mixed together to recreate a seemingly authentic natural recording - except that it didn't. So what I think is happening with even the slightest EQ-ing of a certain frequency, is that not only does it influence that one tone, but also all other tones that have some harmonics related to that tone in them, sucks that one part out (exaggerated, as it's just attenuating them) and breaks the natural decay (and timbre?) of any tone. Probably the natural dying out of for instance a 500 Hz tone that has just been played has a handful of harmonics from a 5 kHz tone from which perhaps the middle one gets cut out this way, leading to some kind of unnatural reverb? And when you try to EQ more than just one tone this cuts out even more harmonics of that natural reverb of many other tones and the echoes of the instruments of that natural 2 mic recording are not working together any longer to give you the natural impression of them being played in one space right there in front of you. So you clearly hear the instruments in order, but something doesn't add up any longer.

My experiments worked for finding the best handful of techniques to EQ to reach a certain effect so I'm certainly happy with that part. It's just that I'm not ready to accept the by-effects from a nerdy audiophile point of view just yet.

If anyone has a better and well educated response to what I'm actually hearing then I'm all ears!

drftr

Have you tried quantom mechanics ?

 

[CharlyBrown]

Bad comparison.

Xbox Series X is much more powerful and allows you to play more demanding games at higher and more stable frame rates. Of course it comes at a premium price.

Sony DAP ZM2 on the other hand offers very less other than being all bling bling.

ChatGPT thinks the ZM2 is „slightly warmer“. Other than that, just bling bling plus the usual political correctness from GPT. Of course, we don’t know where it learned the slightly warmer thing. Probably reviews.

Just the summary:

In summary, while both models are premium digital audio players from Sony, the NW-WM1ZM2 offers a more luxurious build and slightly warmer sound signature compared to the NW-WM1AM2, which is characterized by its neutral and balanced sound. The choice between the two often comes down to personal preference, budget, and desired sound characteristics.

 

[maegnificant]

With a little help from my friends @slumberman, @Tokpakorlo, and @Deezel177 I spent way too much time on EQ experiments over the past week. The reason that I did in the first place was trying to find a way to potentially make Onyx work for me the way I wanted to, and I thought experimenting with my current setup as a preparation (which includes a great parametric Lotoo equalizer) would give me a headstart.

At the end of the week I had narrowed the influence of the equalizer all the way down to barely 2 -0.5 dB steps though and still wasn't satisfied. Of course 2 tiny corrections didn't even come close to what I had in mind as these steps on paper barely do anything for amplifying/attenuating certain frequencies, but it somehow still did something I didn't like at all. Without having the technical background to explain or prove this (other than that anyone can try for himself) I guess what I'm hearing is that apart from attenuating for instance a pure 5 kHz tone of which I could clearly hear the effect of, something happened to a great many other tones that were clearly not even near that 5 kHz. What I now think happens with EQ-ing (and that probably makes sense) is that when I attenuate a 5 kHz tone, not only do I attenuate exactly that tone, but also all kinds of other tones that have all kinds of under- and overtones (harmonics) of that 5 kHz tone in them.

I found it strange that for instance recordings of small ensembles started to sound like if the air was sucked out between the instruments, and that their natural echoes that help pinpoint imaging within the soundstage stopped being there, or at least they didn't seem to be connected in a natural way any longer. From what originally sounded like a great 2 mic setup recording it turned into something in which every instrument was recorded with its own mic in a separate room and then mixed together to recreate a seemingly authentic natural recording - except that it didn't. So what I think is happening with even the slightest EQ-ing of a certain frequency, is that not only does it influence that one tone, but also all other tones that have some harmonics related to that tone in them, sucks that one part out (exaggerated, as it's just attenuating them) and breaks the natural decay (and timbre?) of any tone. Probably the natural dying out of for instance a 500 Hz tone that has just been played has a handful of harmonics from a 5 kHz tone from which perhaps the middle one gets cut out this way, leading to some kind of unnatural reverb? And when you try to EQ more than just one tone this cuts out even more harmonics of that natural reverb of many other tones and the echoes of the instruments of that natural 2 mic recording are not working together any longer to give you the natural impression of them being played in one space right there in front of you. So you clearly hear the instruments in order, but something doesn't add up any longer.

My experiments worked for finding the best handful of techniques to EQ to reach a certain effect so I'm certainly happy with that part. It's just that I'm not ready to accept the by-effects from a nerdy audiophile point of view just yet.

If anyone has a better and well educated response to what I'm actually hearing then I'm all ears!

drftr

I think it's just that changing a frequency affects how you hear every frequency in comparison to that. More bass is less perceived treble and the like. Also there is stuff like pinna gain, high frequencies being perceived different on how long your ear canals are etc. etc.
The more you know, the more difficult it gets I guess.

The bell curve meme would probably be "left: tilt it until it sounds good - middle: EQ is so complicated and I never get the perfect result, I would rather leave tuning to the experts - right: tilt it until it sounds good"

I am also at the middle at the moment. Timsok Ts-316 did it right for me. Will see how the new Dusk performs in comparison and wait what people report about the Pilgrim.

 

[PeacockObscura]

With a little help from my friends @slumberman, @Tokpakorlo, and @Deezel177 I spent way too much time on EQ experiments over the past week. The reason that I did in the first place was trying to find a way to potentially make Onyx work for me the way I wanted to, and I thought experimenting with my current setup as a preparation (which includes a great parametric Lotoo equalizer) would give me a headstart.

At the end of the week I had narrowed the influence of the equalizer all the way down to barely 2 -0.5 dB steps though and still wasn't satisfied. Of course 2 tiny corrections didn't even come close to what I had in mind as these steps on paper barely do anything for amplifying/attenuating certain frequencies, but it somehow still did something I didn't like at all. Without having the technical background to explain or prove this (other than that anyone can try for himself) I guess what I'm hearing is that apart from attenuating for instance a pure 5 kHz tone of which I could clearly hear the effect of, something happened to a great many other tones that were clearly not even near that 5 kHz. What I now think happens with EQ-ing (and that probably makes sense) is that when I attenuate a 5 kHz tone, not only do I attenuate exactly that tone, but also all kinds of other tones that have all kinds of under- and overtones (harmonics) of that 5 kHz tone in them.

I found it strange that for instance recordings of small ensembles started to sound like if the air was sucked out between the instruments, and that their natural echoes that help pinpoint imaging within the soundstage stopped being there, or at least they didn't seem to be connected in a natural way any longer. From what originally sounded like a great 2 mic setup recording it turned into something in which every instrument was recorded with its own mic in a separate room and then mixed together to recreate a seemingly authentic natural recording - except that it didn't. So what I think is happening with even the slightest EQ-ing of a certain frequency, is that not only does it influence that one tone, but also all other tones that have some harmonics related to that tone in them, sucks that one part out (exaggerated, as it's just attenuating them) and breaks the natural decay (and timbre?) of any tone. Probably the natural dying out of for instance a 500 Hz tone that has just been played has a handful of harmonics from a 5 kHz tone from which perhaps the middle one gets cut out this way, leading to some kind of unnatural reverb? And when you try to EQ more than just one tone this cuts out even more harmonics of that natural reverb of many other tones and the echoes of the instruments of that natural 2 mic recording are not working together any longer to give you the natural impression of them being played in one space right there in front of you. So you clearly hear the instruments in order, but something doesn't add up any longer.

My experiments worked for finding the best handful of techniques to EQ to reach a certain effect so I'm certainly happy with that part. It's just that I'm not ready to accept the by-effects from a nerdy audiophile point of view just yet.

If anyone has a better and well educated response to what I'm actually hearing then I'm all ears!

drftr

Here's my uneducated statement. EQ Sucks
Nothing sounds natural, everything else sounds wrong! Thank you and goodnight.

 

[theveterans]

Tip roll, DAP roll, DAC filter roll, Cable roll are my EQ controls. They’re much more effective in getting my IEMs to sound right than digital EQ ever did IME

 

[PixelSquish]

For wired iems I try to either not EQ or just EQ very minimally. Usually just to maybe provide a little bass boost, something simple and minimal.

I will definitely EQ tws. And the LCDX 2021 are made for eq'ing. Never eq'd like that before and they respond so well. I think it's a bit of a planer characteristic.

 

[yaps66]

It sounds like a restriction to say it, but it feels like liberation to live it!

Well said!

 

[Deezel177]

With a little help from my friends @slumberman, @Tokpakorlo, and @Deezel177 I spent way too much time on EQ experiments over the past week. The reason that I did in the first place was trying to find a way to potentially make Onyx work for me the way I wanted to, and I thought experimenting with my current setup as a preparation (which includes a great parametric Lotoo equalizer) would give me a headstart.

At the end of the week I had narrowed the influence of the equalizer all the way down to barely 2 -0.5 dB steps though and still wasn't satisfied. Of course 2 tiny corrections didn't even come close to what I had in mind as these steps on paper barely do anything for amplifying/attenuating certain frequencies, but it somehow still did something I didn't like at all. Without having the technical background to explain or prove this (other than that anyone can try for himself) I guess what I'm hearing is that apart from attenuating for instance a pure 5 kHz tone of which I could clearly hear the effect of, something happened to a great many other tones that were clearly not even near that 5 kHz. What I now think happens with EQ-ing (and that probably makes sense) is that when I attenuate a 5 kHz tone, not only do I attenuate exactly that tone, but also all kinds of other tones that have all kinds of under- and overtones (harmonics) of that 5 kHz tone in them.

I found it strange that for instance recordings of small ensembles started to sound like if the air was sucked out between the instruments, and that their natural echoes that help pinpoint imaging within the soundstage stopped being there, or at least they didn't seem to be connected in a natural way any longer. From what originally sounded like a great 2 mic setup recording it turned into something in which every instrument was recorded with its own mic in a separate room and then mixed together to recreate a seemingly authentic natural recording - except that it didn't. So what I think is happening with even the slightest EQ-ing of a certain frequency, is that not only does it influence that one tone, but also all other tones that have some harmonics related to that tone in them, sucks that one part out (exaggerated, as it's just attenuating them) and breaks the natural decay (and timbre?) of any tone. Probably the natural dying out of for instance a 500 Hz tone that has just been played has a handful of harmonics from a 5 kHz tone from which perhaps the middle one gets cut out this way, leading to some kind of unnatural reverb? And when you try to EQ more than just one tone this cuts out even more harmonics of that natural reverb of many other tones and the echoes of the instruments of that natural 2 mic recording are not working together any longer to give you the natural impression of them being played in one space right there in front of you. So you clearly hear the instruments in order, but something doesn't add up any longer.

My experiments worked for finding the best handful of techniques to EQ to reach a certain effect so I'm certainly happy with that part. It's just that I'm not ready to accept the by-effects from a nerdy audiophile point of view just yet.

If anyone has a better and well educated response to what I'm actually hearing then I'm all ears!

drftr

Well, to begin with, you can’t narrow the Q-factor (or bandwidth) of the PAW6000’s EQ too much. So, the apex of the dip may be at 5kHz, but what you’re actually dipping is more like 4-6kHz (at least). And, what you described there is basically what happens when you dip the lower-treble. Transients (or note edges) are what set notes apart and make them pop against the background. So, when you dull those edges, you’ll start to hear a diffuseness that pushes them back into the background and blur their lines. This is why all IEMs, if they want some semblance of separation and clarity, have to have a treble peak somewhere. It’s possible 5kHz was the Onyx’s peak of choice. Try dipping 5kHz a tad, but then add some energy at 8kHz or 12kHz. See if that helps, and see if those peaks further up the range are less bothersome.

 

[zlayde]

Hey watercooler, I visited the good folks at Audio46 today and I tried the Noble Audio Onyx.

One word: wow. Big, muscular sound across the spectrum. Cohesive and tight. THUNDERING yet speedy bass that was MEATY and yet the mids and highs flowed beautifully over them. I own Anni '23 and I have not been wowed in a good while. It was not a long session. I'd love more time with it.

But wow.

 

[maegnificant]

Poweramp on Android has really powerful EQ software. You can also search for models of headphones and IEMs and if it's a popular model, there will be EQ profiles that you can download in the app, made by other people. They are often named after certain targets these people were going for and you can see what they changed and listen to how these changes sound. That did help me a lot getting a basic sense for EQ, I together with one of these spreadsheets for which frequency is used for which instruments normally.

Also what @Deezel177 said.

 

[Rolu]

WM2Z...they really missed a boat there.

They really didn't. Sony's naming schemes may look gibberish, but they don't just mash alphanumerals together. In a way, I appreciate the order they maintain in their naming schemes, and hey guess what, if the product is good, the world remembers their exact names anyway!

 

[maegnificant]

For todays' Bandcamp Friday recommendation, I present Yelena Eckemoff.

A great Jazz Pianist and her band with their eclectic catalogue available as whole for 15% off! It's truly worth the price, this is some of the best stuff I have heard in a while. A great find for me and she is also a nice person to talk to, I asked her to enable this discount and she was very kind. Enjoy the music!

 

[truongmusic]

Hello everyone, I have arrived in Singapore and am very excited to attend Canjam tomorrow. Looking forward to the opportunity to meet everyone here. If everyone is free today, can we have a small meeting?

 

[Tanalasta]

So has anyone tried https://www.rossiandwing.com/home/firstlight2024

Saw a promo post ... lots of marketing acclaim but interested in CJ impressions as they are showing there tomorrow. And how it compares to the rest of Summit Fi.