The Watercooler -- Impressions, philosophical discussion and general banter. Index on first page. All welcome.
Jul 21, 2022 at 10:37 PM Post #29,866 of 90,713
Today is Traillii day. I decided to A/B test the First Times cable with the First Times shielding on Traillii. I am getting pretty clear and consistent impressions. Basically, the Shielding version provides a warmer, more revealing presentation of music with Traillii. I really like it and will probably get a shielding version for it. Really loving this sound. Right now, Traillii, Red Halo FE and Elysium are getting a lot of ear time. This weeks' top 3.

edited to note: These 3 IEMs all have BA bass. OMG.

Traillii FT Shielding N8ii.jpg
recently switched orphy back to traillii after being on FT non-shielded for a few weeks (and after nearly selling traillii!) and yeah...it's just an astonishing sound.
 
Jul 21, 2022 at 10:38 PM Post #29,867 of 90,713
Gosh, you’re so bad for my wallet… but yeah, I’m pretty much working my way to get a shielded one. Shameless plug for sale of my FT, pls pm :)
There really is just something about that shielding...
 
Jul 21, 2022 at 11:03 PM Post #29,868 of 90,713
I have tried both, and instantly took U6T out of my ears. They sounded boxy to me maybe I didn't gave the pair enough time. Duo is something I liked instantly. Open, Spacious, good bass. I would go for Duo eyes closed.
Yeah? Would you go, Duos? Interesting. I am looking for something "open" and "good bass."
 
Jul 21, 2022 at 11:41 PM Post #29,869 of 90,713
Where do you get a badge, is there a test?

Anyway we all have music we are passionate about, perhaps to the exclusion of other music.
There was great music in the 90s, there is great music in the 2020s and it just keeps going. We can listen to the past and musicians will quickly talk about their inspirations, all we have to do is give everything a chance.
To me that is part of what a badge could mean.
Yeah what I don’t get is how anyone can be judgmental about music preferences. For me , since I’m 34 , I’m not going to get the significance of most music in the 70s, it was before my time. And when you consider that music tends to be a backdrop for significant moments of an era it can be hard to appreciate an album if it’s from an era that you never lived in. Same reason why we have such a difficult time reading and understanding books that are centuries old.
 
Jul 21, 2022 at 11:56 PM Post #29,870 of 90,713
Hanging around here this was bound to happen.

Yesterday I "just happened" to find myself at Addicted to Audio in Melbourne, and "just happened" to walk out with an emptier wallet. Hopefully this post provides the catharsis needed to alleviate morning-after guilt.

Firstly I must thank the audio crack dealers lovely chaps at A2A for allowing me to demo three particular IEMs I'd read about but had yet to hear - the Sennheiser IE600, Sennheiser IE900 and Final Audio A8000. If it isn't already obvious I'm a single-driver DD diehard, since no IEM (or speaker) in my life has ever pushed my buttons the way single-drivers do, not for fatigue-free sustained listening sessions. Coherence is king, and can't be faked.

My listening session at A2A was quite brief so I'll keep my descriptions equally cursory, with the disclaimer I put only minimal stock in impressions gathered under demo or meet conditions, since IEMs are like people - frustratingly yet charmingly imperfect, and only by living with them on a daily basis do we really learn who they are.

The IE600 & IE900 are easier to discuss as a pair, since they share so much in common. Physically, their surface textures differ to the touch but in terms of weight and form factor they seem almost identical, and what a delightful form factor it is. Both have the coherence and sub-bass impact I crave, with the IE900 perhaps a tad weightier down below. The IE900 also had noticeably more sparkle up top, along with a wider, grander soundstage.

However even after flicking through a handful of tracks it was obvious this was an artificially-enhanced soundstage which delivered something of a hall or echo effect, meaning it would be present regardless of album or genre played. Suffice to say there would be times that isn't ideal, say when listening to girl-with-guitar acoustic stuff it might lead to the performance lacking intimacy and feeling further away than ideal. There also appeared to be something wonky about the IE900 midrange, resuscitating nightmares of the HD580's I owned what felt like a lifetime ago. Timbre seemed off in that famously-sterotypical Sennheiser way, not to such a drastic extent it would prevent me enjoying owning a pair by any stretch, but as audiophiles any defect no matter how minuscule must be noted.

Whereas the IE900s felt slightly V-shaped, the IE600's were far better balanced. Indeed their wonderful balance across the frequency spectrum appears to be their defining characteristic. To my regret I've yet to hear a pair of U12T's but they are frequently spoken of in similar terms, of being magnificent all-rounders with few weaknesses other than unsatisfying BA-bass, and (owing to their 12 driver configuration) the lack of coherence many audiophiles assume they've no choice but to live with in exchange for top-tier sound. (you don't!)

Another reported U12T weakness is they can be excessively polite, or put more plainly, boring. This may be the result of their purportedly poor dynamics, though I wonder if their frequency response could be a contributing factor. By definition, audio that sounds excessively flat or correct can fail to rouse one's attention. Perhaps that's why musicians and audio engineers love adding so much reverb to their mixes, for the extra drama or colour it can lend. So, the IE600's immediately stood out as being much more balanced and correct than the IE900's, but perhaps did not shimmer to quite the same extent.

What I can also say about the IE600s is both their soundstage and imaging were excellent for a single DD (though slightly behind the IE900s), their timbre was faultless, bass impact was satisfying and to my ears manifestly adequate without attracting excessive attention to itself, midrange was satisfyingly liquid and again, by single DD standards there was no lack of top-end sparkle nor corresponding detail whatsoever. Their weakness was a tendency towards politeness, along with a very slight hint of muddiness I would've missed had they not been tested alongside the IE900 & A8000.

Lastly on the subject of these two curvy Sennheiser beauties I must dissect their physical attributes. First the bad - their proprietary MMCX connectors differ slightly in spec from the norm and as such won't fit every MMCX cable out there. My MMCX Penon Audio Leo Plus cable worked fine, my MMCX ALO Reference 8 does not. I don't know what Sennheiser was thinking there and will leave it at that. Thankfully the good firmly outweighs the bad, because the form factor of both IEMs (for my ears) is simply unbeatable. To hear magnificently high-end sound pour out of such tiny enclosures is nothing short of a testament to the wondrous age we inhabit.

Finally, the A8000. These were substantially larger & heavier than the Sennheiser IEMs and visually commanded much more attention. Comfort was a mixed bag, the shells fit my ears extremely snugly and their weight was not dramatic enough to affect a purchasing decision. However like others who've owned them, I found the right-side's shell would occasionally bite into my ear in a mildly-painful fashion owing to its' excessive sharpness. I've noticed that A8000 silicon cases are available on Ebay, but it's a little ridiculous such a solution should be needed in the first place.

Sonically, sharp & edgy is an apt description I can't resist making. That said, they instantly grabbed my attention as something truly special. Having owned the Dunu Luna I had an inkling of what to expect from true beryllium drivers - the captivating feeling of speed & immediacy, otherwise the province of BA drivers. That was there, as was a soundstage & imaging perhaps slightly ahead of the IE900 (difficult to say with minimal time comparing the two), and most vividly of all a level resolution neither Sennheiser IEM could match, beyond anything I've yet heard from a single-DD IEM.

Of course there's always a downside -price aside- and the abundance of treble was it. On the whole I didn't find it too debilitating, but immediately recognised the A8000s aren't great all-rounders, and would probably relegate substantial chunks of my music collection off-limits. In much the same way as the IE900's soundstage felt artificially boosted, so too did the A8000's treble. Yet the speed of the driver, brutal clarity of presentation, sublime resolution & superb technicalities encourage me to overlook this shortcoming and label them a superb, albeit flawed achievement. If my library were largely or exclusively classical they'd be unbeatable in the single-DD world.

In the end "there can be only one" so I walked out with the IE600s. These are basically the Ghandi's of the IEM world - bordering on offensively inoffensive, but destined to be loved by millions. Anywhere else they'd laugh if I suggested these USD $700 earbuds are 'good value', but compared with some of the FOTM stuff paraded around the Watercooler they probably seem like a steal. What's funny is if Sennheiser had've released them with the IE900s simultaneously and reversed the pricing of the two, I would not have batted an eyelid after hearing both. The IE900's almost look and sound like the beta version.

Thanks again A2A - and now to the overwhelming task of purging all memory of your store's existence until my wallet recovers!



IE600.jpg
 
Jul 22, 2022 at 12:41 AM Post #29,872 of 90,713
Jul 22, 2022 at 1:09 AM Post #29,874 of 90,713
I didn't compare, but I'm afraid it will be a spoiler. No chances.
When you compare not flagship iems with twice and three times more expensive models, this always happens. Again and again.
I don't quite understand your answer.
For me everything is comparable, and more expensive does not have to mean better, or above all, that you like it more. 2 of my favorite IEMs are the Timeless and the S12, and I like them more than much more expensive ones like the U12t (which I have had) or the Mest (which I have), and let's not talk about for example the Solaris (bored).
Likewise, the Trio continues in the first positions of the rankings of the most well-known reviewers...
 
Jul 22, 2022 at 1:26 AM Post #29,875 of 90,713
Yes, keep going until I recognize a song. The 1990s was the most forgettable decade for music since Bach.

Dismissal of an entire decade of music is clearly a subjective point of view, rather than a statement of fact. The 90s for me were the most memorable decade for music - countless classics emerged during that period spanning several genres and I'm very glad to have been a young teenager at that dawn of that era! YMMV :)
 
Jul 22, 2022 at 1:44 AM Post #29,876 of 90,713
I don't quite understand your answer.
For me everything is comparable, and more expensive does not have to mean better, or above all, that you like it more. 2 of my favorite IEMs are the Timeless and the S12, and I like them more than much more expensive ones like the U12t (which I have had) or the Mest (which I have), and let's not talk about for example the Solaris (bored).
Likewise, the Trio continues in the first positions of the rankings of the most well-known reviewers...
Both are planar you mentioned
Maybe compare them to the CA Supermoon and see what your idea might be than ... ?
Also Trio ... I prefer Fourté but again it's personal preference ... 🤷
 
Jul 22, 2022 at 1:49 AM Post #29,877 of 90,713
Where do you get a badge, is there a test?

Anyway we all have music we are passionate about, perhaps to the exclusion of other music.
There was great music in the 90s, there is great music in the 2020s and it just keeps going. We can listen to the past and musicians will quickly talk about their inspirations, all we have to do is give everything a chance.
To me that is part of what a badge could mean.

This reminds me that I see a lot less music genre elitism on headfi these days compared to when I started. I remember when I first joined I’d more often see posters saying something along the lines of “if it’s not classical or jazz then it’s not real music” directed at other users.

Anyhow, back to my party music 🤘

 
Jul 22, 2022 at 1:59 AM Post #29,878 of 90,713
Hanging around here this was bound to happen.

Yesterday I "just happened" to find myself at Addicted to Audio in Melbourne, and "just happened" to walk out with an emptier wallet. Hopefully this post provides the catharsis needed to alleviate morning-after guilt.

Firstly I must thank the audio crack dealers lovely chaps at A2A for allowing me to demo three particular IEMs I'd read about but had yet to hear - the Sennheiser IE600, Sennheiser IE900 and Final Audio A8000. If it isn't already obvious I'm a single-driver DD diehard, since no IEM (or speaker) in my life has ever pushed my buttons the way single-drivers do, not for fatigue-free sustained listening sessions. Coherence is king, and can't be faked.

My listening session at A2A was quite brief so I'll keep my descriptions equally cursory, with the disclaimer I put only minimal stock in impressions gathered under demo or meet conditions, since IEMs are like people - frustratingly yet charmingly imperfect, and only by living with them on a daily basis do we really learn who they are.

The IE600 & IE900 are easier to discuss as a pair, since they share so much in common. Physically, their surface textures differ to the touch but in terms of weight and form factor they seem almost identical, and what a delightful form factor it is. Both have the coherence and sub-bass impact I crave, with the IE900 perhaps a tad weightier down below. The IE900 also had noticeably more sparkle up top, along with a wider, grander soundstage.

However even after flicking through a handful of tracks it was obvious this was an artificially-enhanced soundstage which delivered something of a hall or echo effect, meaning it would be present regardless of album or genre played. Suffice to say there would be times that isn't ideal, say when listening to girl-with-guitar acoustic stuff it might lead to the performance lacking intimacy and feeling further away than ideal. There also appeared to be something wonky about the IE900 midrange, resuscitating nightmares of the HD580's I owned what felt like a lifetime ago. Timbre seemed off in that famously-sterotypical Sennheiser way, not to such a drastic extent it would prevent me enjoying owning a pair by any stretch, but as audiophiles any defect no matter how minuscule must be noted.

Whereas the IE900s felt slightly V-shaped, the IE600's were far better balanced. Indeed their wonderful balance across the frequency spectrum appears to be their defining characteristic. To my regret I've yet to hear a pair of U12T's but they are frequently spoken of in similar terms, of being magnificent all-rounders with few weaknesses other than unsatisfying BA-bass, and (owing to their 12 driver configuration) the lack of coherence many audiophiles assume they've no choice but to live with in exchange for top-tier sound. (you don't!)

Another reported U12T weakness is they can be excessively polite, or put more plainly, boring. This may be the result of their purportedly poor dynamics, though I wonder if their frequency response could be a contributing factor. By definition, audio that sounds excessively flat or correct can fail to rouse one's attention. Perhaps that's why musicians and audio engineers love adding so much reverb to their mixes, for the extra drama or colour it can lend. So, the IE600's immediately stood out as being much more balanced and correct than the IE900's, but perhaps did not shimmer to quite the same extent.

What I can also say about the IE600s is both their soundstage and imaging were excellent for a single DD (though slightly behind the IE900s), their timbre was faultless, bass impact was satisfying and to my ears manifestly adequate without attracting excessive attention to itself, midrange was satisfyingly liquid and again, by single DD standards there was no lack of top-end sparkle nor corresponding detail whatsoever. Their weakness was a tendency towards politeness, along with a very slight hint of muddiness I would've missed had they not been tested alongside the IE900 & A8000.

Lastly on the subject of these two curvy Sennheiser beauties I must dissect their physical attributes. First the bad - their proprietary MMCX connectors differ slightly in spec from the norm and as such won't fit every MMCX cable out there. My MMCX Penon Audio Leo Plus cable worked fine, my MMCX ALO Reference 8 does not. I don't know what Sennheiser was thinking there and will leave it at that. Thankfully the good firmly outweighs the bad, because the form factor of both IEMs (for my ears) is simply unbeatable. To hear magnificently high-end sound pour out of such tiny enclosures is nothing short of a testament to the wondrous age we inhabit.

Finally, the A8000. These were substantially larger & heavier than the Sennheiser IEMs and visually commanded much more attention. Comfort was a mixed bag, the shells fit my ears extremely snugly and their weight was not dramatic enough to affect a purchasing decision. However like others who've owned them, I found the right-side's shell would occasionally bite into my ear in a mildly-painful fashion owing to its' excessive sharpness. I've noticed that A8000 silicon cases are available on Ebay, but it's a little ridiculous such a solution should be needed in the first place.

Sonically, sharp & edgy is an apt description I can't resist making. That said, they instantly grabbed my attention as something truly special. Having owned the Dunu Luna I had an inkling of what to expect from true beryllium drivers - the captivating feeling of speed & immediacy, otherwise the province of BA drivers. That was there, as was a soundstage & imaging perhaps slightly ahead of the IE900 (difficult to say with minimal time comparing the two), and most vividly of all a level resolution neither Sennheiser IEM could match, beyond anything I've yet heard from a single-DD IEM.

Of course there's always a downside -price aside- and the abundance of treble was it. On the whole I didn't find it too debilitating, but immediately recognised the A8000s aren't great all-rounders, and would probably relegate substantial chunks of my music collection off-limits. In much the same way as the IE900's soundstage felt artificially boosted, so too did the A8000's treble. Yet the speed of the driver, brutal clarity of presentation, sublime resolution & superb technicalities encourage me to overlook this shortcoming and label them a superb, albeit flawed achievement. If my library were largely or exclusively classical they'd be unbeatable in the single-DD world.

In the end "there can be only one" so I walked out with the IE600s. These are basically the Ghandi's of the IEM world - bordering on offensively inoffensive, but destined to be loved by millions. Anywhere else they'd laugh if I suggested these USD $700 earbuds are 'good value', but compared with some of the FOTM stuff paraded around the Watercooler they probably seem like a steal. What's funny is if Sennheiser had've released them with the IE900s simultaneously and reversed the pricing of the two, I would not have batted an eyelid after hearing both. The IE900's almost look and sound like the beta version.

Thanks again A2A - and now to the overwhelming task of purging all memory of your store's existence until my wallet recovers!




Very nice subject ... I share a lot of your points between the IE900 and IE600 ... though, I still think that some IEM makers managed to produce very coherent hybrid drivers.
As I use the IE600 every day now, with a great pleasure, clearly the IER-Z1R or the VE EXT are both something like more realistic in high frequencies and can add some more ultra low frequencies when needed too.
Maybe the high frequencies (8 to 15Khz) are less "funny" than with the IE600, but they are with both hybrids at least a bit more precise (this can be caught in near to direct A/B comparison, though it can't be caught so easily after 15 minutes burning the ears with the IE600). The IE900 is still in between for me in both ends.

After 50 or more hours using the IE600, I am not disappointed at all, even quite surprised by the sound quality of the IE600.... and what a confort !!! IE900/IE600 are probably the kings of comfort and stability in the ear canals in any positions.

Really a great well done to Sennheiser for these IEM.
 
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Jul 22, 2022 at 2:36 AM Post #29,879 of 90,713
Both are planar you mentioned
Maybe compare them to the CA Supermoon and see what your idea might be than ... ?
Also Trio ... I prefer Fourté but again it's personal preference ... 🤷

Of course I would like to try the Supermoon, like so many others... But for me I think that's an impossible task.

And everything that I have bought completely blind has turned out to be a disaster, I have not liked almost any of them. I at least need charts to compare to to get an idea.
Tonality is very important to me, much more than any technicality, so having at least graphics with which to get an idea is essential to be able to make a "blind" purchase and not throw my money away.

Between the Trio and the Fourte I have always had doubts, but the Fourte is completely out of my budget, and the tonality is "weird" (both in the graphics and said by most reviewers), so my tastes and possibilities are they are much closer to the Trio than to the Fourte. Have you also had the Trio, and have you preferred to stay with the Fourte?
 
Jul 22, 2022 at 2:50 AM Post #29,880 of 90,713
Also got AZLA Max, best so far (tried them on Z1R and xm4), just curious how does it compared to Spinfit W1?
what's the difference between all the azla tips, there are so many of them that I'm just confused now :beyersmile:
 

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