[ClieOS]

I think it is worth noting that you will only get the full benefit of UTWS5's aptx Adaptive if you have (or planned to have) Android smartphone with Snapdragon 888+ or later, where 24/96 is supported. Anything older / different might only get get you the regular 16/48 aptx Adaptive - which is still better than AAC, but not quite as noticeable. Of course if you are using iPhone, then you are stuck with AAC regardless so the source devices matter as well, not just which BT adapter.

 

[xSDMx]

I heard a rumour that the upcoming Nyx+ from Null Audio might support LDAC. The anticipation is building!

 

[Pro-Jules]

Because My iems are a very deep custom fit it's really difficult to get them out of my ears - this combined with two pin connectors (that come undone while I attempt to dig my iems out of my ears) makes it almost impossible for me to use neck band models - I seriously risk an iem detaching, falling down and rolling into drain when out in the street.

I have owned Fiio & Plussound neck band models

But I like following these threads

 

[Jaysound]

I've purchased the Shure TW2 and am having an interesting adventure trying to get really good SQ from them.

I'm using them with Shure SE425s. Samsung S22 Ultra phone. Tidal HD streaming music for the most part.

I was previously using a FiiO BTR5 and love it! And I have never used any software for EQ with the BTR5, just ran the default.

On comparing SQ between the TW2 and BTR5 using the TW2 default settings, there is no comparison. TW2 is sorely lacking.

(I have the Shure PLAY software running, and I set it for the SE425s.)

By the time I'd get volume up high enough to feel the bass, which was actually the phone's max volume setting or one click below max, the mids and especially the highs were too overpowering to even listen to.

Note that with the TW2 using the volume control in the TW2 or the volume control on the phone have the same result -- the TW2 volume control just changes the volume control on the phone.

I tried the EQ Presets in PLAY for boosting or cutting bass or treble but any improvements came with pro and con tradeoffs.

I really don't want to use EQ anyway. I use the SE425s because they're known for producing natural, undistorted sound.

Then I tried the EQ Present "Loudness" and that seemed to help. It says it helps when listening at low volume, but for me it helped when listening and high volume, which is where I had the most problems. I was able to keep the phone's volume setting a bit lower to have the same level of actual output volume, and that corresponded to less of the overwhelm I was getting at defaults with the same output volume level.

So, that led me to thinking: maybe the Loudness EQ preset is just boosting things across the spectrum a little bit, allowing me to keep the phone's volume setting a bit lower, and the reason it sounds better this way is because the software's EQ boosting is apparently doing a better job of adding volume than the phone's volume control is.

So, I created a custom EQ setting and tried setting everything to max across the board, but it doesn't allow the high end to go to max and the result was that I had lost some high end -- but other than that it was a substantial improvement over what I'd have before and, yes, I was of course able to keep the phone's volume setting even lower than before to get the same output volume level I'd had. This, of course, further supported the theory that the TW2's ability to increase volume without a detrimental effect on SQ is better than the phone's ability to increase volume.

So, to compensate for the fact that it doesn't allow maxing the high end, I brought everything down to about 50% above the default baseline, so now it all was even. And the result was a dramatic improvement. I could keep the phone's volume setting much lower than before and yet the SQ is far superior to anything I'd been getting from the TW2 previously.

Then I decided to try it in the other direction. It occurred to me that I had learned on this forum a while back when I first got the BTR5 that when there is a series of two output devices it's usually best to have the device that's first in the line set to max volume output and then use the second device to actually adjust the volume. It also occurred to me that the BTR5 does spectacularly well when the phone is set to max volume. So, maybe the goal should not just be to have the volume on the phone set lower than its max, and maybe the problem isn't actually how the phone outputs at high volume.

So I tried a new custom EQ setting that brings everything equally down about 50% from the default baseline, allowing me to have the phone's volume setting at max or just below max, thereby giving the TW2 the most source audio to work with.

The result seems to be about as good as I can hope for. The high is a bit much at max volume, so I brought that down a bit.

To have volume control when desired, I'll just may create two or three of these, so the phone's volume is always set at max.

I wanted to share this in case it helps anyone, or anyone wants to play with this and share their experience, and if anyone wants to share their advice. (I have no idea how to use the EQ so I just used the middle -/+ to lower the heights of the dots.)

I guess at the end of the day I can just use the Presets for Bass Boost or Treble Cut and end up close to what I'm doing.

It's too bad all this tinkering is needed for decent SQ from these. But at least the EQ is there and one can get decent results.

All in all the TW2 is great in my opinion. The implementation and convenience are superb! (I just wish SQ matched the BTR5.)

EDIT: Yes, I realize the BTR5 is running LDAC while the TW2 is running aptX. All in all, once using the EQ, it's darned good.

 

[ngd3]

If you had to buy/keep one - BTR5 or Qudelix? And why?

 

[emlin]

I've purchased the Shure TW2 and am having an interesting adventure trying to get really good SQ from them.

I'm using them with Shure SE425s. Samsung S22 Ultra phone. Tidal HD streaming music for the most part.

I was previously using a FiiO BTR5 and love it! And I have never used any software for EQ with the BTR5, just ran the default.

On comparing SQ between the TW2 and BTR5 using the TW2 default settings, there is no comparison. TW2 is sorely lacking.

(I have the Shure PLAY software running, and I set it for the SE425s.)

By the time I'd get volume up high enough to feel the bass, which was actually the phone's max volume setting or one click below max, the mids and especially the highs were too overpowering to even listen to.

Note that with the TW2 using the volume control in the TW2 or the volume control on the phone have the same result -- the TW2 volume control just changes the volume control on the phone.

I tried the EQ Presets in PLAY for boosting or cutting bass or treble but any improvements came with pro and con tradeoffs.

I really don't want to use EQ anyway. I use the SE425s because they're known for producing natural, undistorted sound.

Then I tried the EQ Present "Loudness" and that seemed to help. It says it helps when listening at low volume, but for me it helped when listening and high volume, which is where I had the most problems. I was able to keep the phone's volume setting a bit lower to have the same level of actual output volume, and that corresponded to less of the overwhelm I was getting at defaults with the same output volume level.

So, that led me to thinking: maybe the Loudness EQ preset is just boosting things across the spectrum a little bit, allowing me to keep the phone's volume setting a bit lower, and the reason it sounds better this way is because the software's EQ boosting is apparently doing a better job of adding volume than the phone's volume control is.

So, I created a custom EQ setting and tried setting everything to max across the board, but it doesn't allow the high end to go to max and the result was that I had lost some high end -- but other than that it was a substantial improvement over what I'd have before and, yes, I was of course able to keep the phone's volume setting even lower than before to get the same output volume level I'd had. This, of course, further supported the theory that the TW2's ability to increase volume without a detrimental effect on SQ is better than the phone's ability to increase volume.

So, to compensate for the fact that it doesn't allow maxing the high end, I brought everything down to about 50% above the default baseline, so now it all was even. And the result was a dramatic improvement. I could keep the phone's volume setting much lower than before and yet the SQ is far superior to anything I'd been getting from the TW2 previously.

Then I decided to try it in the other direction. It occurred to me that I had learned on this forum a while back when I first got the BTR5 that when there is a series of two output devices it's usually best to have the device that's first in the line set to max volume output and then use the second device to actually adjust the volume. It also occurred to me that the BTR5 does spectacularly well when the phone is set to max volume. So, maybe the goal should not just be to have the volume on the phone set lower than its max, and maybe the problem isn't actually how the phone outputs at high volume.

So I tried a new custom EQ setting that brings everything equally down about 50% from the default baseline, allowing me to have the phone's volume setting at max or just below max, thereby giving the TW2 the most source audio to work with.

The result seems to be about as good as I can hope for. The high is a bit much at max volume, so I brought that down a bit.

To have volume control when desired, I'll just may create two or three of these, so the phone's volume is always set at max.

I wanted to share this in case it helps anyone, or anyone wants to play with this and share their experience, and if anyone wants to share their advice. (I have no idea how to use the EQ so I just used the middle -/+ to lower the heights of the dots.)

I guess at the end of the day I can just use the Presets for Bass Boost or Treble Cut and end up close to what I'm doing.

It's too bad all this tinkering is needed for decent SQ from these. But at least the EQ is there and one can get decent results.

All in all the TW2 is great in my opinion. The implementation and convenience are superb! (I just wish SQ matched the BTR5.)

EDIT: Yes, I realize the BTR5 is running LDAC while the TW2 is running aptX. All in all, once using the EQ, it's darned good.

Have you tried turning off absolute volume in developer options?

 

[Jaysound]

Have you tried turning off absolute volume in developer options?

My novice ears may be mistaken but that does seem to smooth things out and tamp down the overpowering highs at high volume. I wonder why that is? Any idea?

I can't say yet whether there are SQ downsides to this approach.

The one obvious usability downside with this approach, though, is that one loses any hint of granular control over volume levels. The up-down buttons on the phone are rather course -- it makes big jumps with each click -- and the user has to go into "Media output" for the manual slider to gain more granular control, but at least that is available. With "Disable Absolute Volume" enabled that's lost and one has to use the TW2 volume control, which of course is just the "press > press and hold" on the TW2 itself, which is about as opposite from granular control as one can get. Wouldn't a simple manual slider in the PLAY app be nice? And it would be simple for Shure to add.

 

[emlin]

My novice ears may be mistaken but that does seem to smooth things out and tamp down the overpowering highs at high volume. I wonder why that is? Any idea?

I can't say yet whether there are SQ downsides to this approach.

The one obvious usability downside with this approach, though, is that one loses any hint of granular control over volume levels. The up-down buttons on the phone are rather course -- it makes big jumps with each click -- and the user has to go into "Media output" for the manual slider to gain more granular control, but at least that is available. With "Disable Absolute Volume" enabled that's lost and one has to use the TW2 volume control, which of course is just the "press > press and hold" on the TW2 itself, which is about as opposite from granular control as one can get. Wouldn't a simple manual slider in the PLAY app be nice? And it would be simple for Shure to add.

You could try setting the volume to max on the TW2 and just using the phone for volume adjustment. The only possible advantage of either approach is that you are disabling one of the volume controls.

 

[Jaysound]

You could try setting the volume to max on the TW2 and just using the phone for volume adjustment. The only possible advantage of either approach is that you are disabling one of the volume controls.

This is a curiosity for me now.

Obviously, as is clear when one uses Disable Absolute Volume and gets two separate volume controls, one for the phone's volume and one for the TW2's volume, then the question is when it's all at default and the phone and TW2 volume controls are tied together with Absolute Volume enabled by default, what is actually going up and down when hitting the volume controls (any volume controls since they move together), the phone's volume control or the TW2's volume control?

Is it, perhaps, indeed keeping the phone at max and adjusting the TW2's volume only?

And, the inevitable next question is whether there's reason to expect one should be more capable of producing optimal SQ than the other? Would it indeed be best, at least in theory or on paper, to do as you suggested and have the phone at max and use the TW2's volume control to set the desired listening level (consistent with what I wrote earlier about having been told that ideally the first output device should be at max and the second should be used to set the listening level)?

 

[jmwant]

Null-Audio just responded to my inquiry about when and where the Nyx+ will be available for purchase and specs:

Thank you for your interests in Nyx+. It will be available for purchase via website in 2-3 weeks time.
Specifications will be shown on the product webpage.
Stay tuned

At same Price range?

 

[Jaysound]

At same Price range?

I didn't ask about price.

I did correspond with them again last week about when it will be available to purchase on their site and they said probably next week. (They didn't respond to my question about whether it will have LDAC.)

 

[monsieurfromag3]

The Nyx+ has LDAC, will cost about $25 more, and switches from class A to D amplification.

 

[emlin]

The Nyx+ has LDAC, will cost about $25 more, and switches from class A to D amplification.

Class D should mean longer battery life.

 

[monsieurfromag3]

Class D should mean longer battery life.

I think battery life is the same. Which must mean it was some variation on class A before anyway, since it’s rated for 20 hours! I can confirm the Nyx has very long battery life and packs a lot of driving power. It’s what you would expect from a neckband, without the rigid band. More playback time and volume headroom than with TWS if you plug in iems with average impedance/sensitivity specs.

 

[Jaysound]

I think battery life is the same. Which must mean it was some variation on class A before anyway, since it’s rated for 20 hours! I can confirm the Nyx has very long battery life and packs a lot of driving power. It’s what you would expect from a neckband, without the rigid band. More playback time and volume headroom than with TWS if you plug in iems with average impedance/sensitivity specs.

So do you have a guess as to whether SQ might rival the Shure TW2? The prices are two-fold apart. The TW2 has EQ/software/environment (ambient sound) mode that could account for the price difference since it only has aptX (etc), while the Nyx+ apparently has LDAC.