The Stax Thread III

[number1sixerfan]

Could anyone guide me how big the change is when moving from a KGSSHV Mini to a TT amp like the Megatron, Grand Cayman or similar?

I'm driving an X9000 and 007MK1 but wondering how significant the change is and what to expect? The change would require cash but also require me risking wife approval so is it worth it

It's kind of hard to answer because it comes down to your ears. What I would say is I haven't met too many people that have upgraded to these level of amps that sold them in a short time, or downgrade. Most people tend to keep them for years without adding anything else (i.e. end game state for that component).

Coming from your amp, a leap to this level should be pretty substantial.. coming from a BHSE or Carbon level amp and you're getting an improvement, but will likely be a bit more subtle. The x9000 is not that hard to power, so really a BHSE or similar powers them great.

You can see a bigger boost in the harder to power stats with some of these amps (Shang Sr., 007, etc.). That said, the x9000 sounds glorious out of the Grand Cayman, as it also does through the T2. I would try to figure out a way to hear one of the amps you mention. The Grand Cayman has been at a lot of shows and if you get to hear it, you can get a really good sense of the general level of performance for of the others. I know it's not always easy to get them though.

 

[SolarCetacean]

The Grand Cayman was not at this past CanJam NYC, but when I asked Justin about it, he said that the chassis for the first batch of production amps had just arrived (he even showed me a photo of the shipping pallet containing the chassis outside the HeadAmp office) and he was starting to build them. The chassis has been redesigned since the prototypes that were shown at various shows with a squarer housing for the power transformers and the control system was redesign in a collab with Kerry at Eksonic. So hopefully in future shows the final production form of the Grand Cayman will be available to listen. I actually first heard the X9000 on the Grand Cayman at CAF 2023, but I was using an offline library so I couldn't really get a good impression on the amp's sound.

Justin also provided some insight into the Grand Cayman's design. The GC uses 20B tubes, which are only produced by Emission Labs and is a new-design tube from I think the early 2000s. I hadn't realized that people were still designing new tubes. Since EML is the only producer of 20B tubes, the GC is compatible with 300B tubes so that any users aren't left in the lurch if EML shut down, but the overall gain of the amp will be lower with 300Bs. With 20Bs, the gain is 650x (for comparison, current BHSEs are built with 500x gain) while switching to 300B tubes will drop the gain to somewhere between 300x and 400x gain depending on the model of 300B. If someone wanted more gain with 300Bs, they'd have to run the input tubes at higher gain, which wouldn't sound as good. You'd need to bump up the line level supplied by the source to compensate for the lower gain.

Also, I wrote a brief comparison of various amps I've heard with the X9000 on the X9000 thread, but I'll copy those impressions here in case anyone is interested:

SRM-700T: poor bass performance. Recessed bass and lack of impact.
SRM-700S: sort of the standard sound. Decently punchy bass, a bit of treble sparkle.
SRM-T8000: boomy bass, a bit like a car subwoofer if I was being dismissive, a bit "cinematic" if being charitable. Highs are sparkly and splashy.
BHSE: Solid, more bass heft/body and percussive impact. Crisper treble
Aeras: Very similar to the BHSE, but slightly thicker sound in lower midrange and slightly smaller soundstage. The Aeras' output stage is basically a mini-BH, same topology for the tubes, but using less powerful 6S4A tubes instead of EL34.

From my personal collection:
CCS-modded SRM-006tS: midrange-focused, with a bit too little frontal depth to the sound. It exacerbates the X9000's mids tuning where the lead element is pulled forward towards me.
Stock 727: Too loose and boomy in bass and percussion. X9000 already has softer transients and stock 727 softens them even further, which wasn't desirable to me.
Feedback-modded 727: it has tight bass, an overall "light" sound, and it has decent frontal depth to the soundstage. Similar to the 700S.
Z10e: sort of a good tube amp signature for estats (since most estat tube amps like BHSE aren't tuned to be tubey). More body and richness to the sound, good spatial qualities, smooth treble, not the last word in impact though.

Random aside: when I was writing this post, I had to look up what the plural of 'chassis' was. It's chassis.

 

[AudioThief]

Today I visited a Stax dealer were I listened to SR-X9000 and SR-009S, while carrying my own SR-007 Mk2 (with Blu-tac mod). Amp was SRM-T8000 and DAC was Gustard X30. Music was played from my PC via USB to the DAC. When comparing, I mostly had no EQ enabled, but did use EQ to lift the upper mids and lower treble in the SR-007 Mk2 in order to make it sound more like the two other models.

To me, the SR-X9000 is a clear step up from both the SR-007 Mk2 and SR-009S. It sounds way more open and spacious than the other two. The SR-009S also has some kind of odd sound to the mids that can't be explained by frequency response, because it's practically identical to the X9000 from 30Hz to 1400Hz. It sounds like some kind of resonance going on in the mids (of the SR-009S) which isn't present when listening to the same tracks using X9000 or 007MkII.

So, I am no longer the owner of a SR-007 Mk2. I have traded it in for the X9000, which I don't have right now, but will receive in about two weeks or so. The dealer had an offer for SR-007 Mk2 customers that I couldn't resist, and I am happy with that, while the bank account isn't!

Stax SR-009S vs SR-X9000 frequency response added.

Congratulations!

I must admit, I am happy you came away with the same conclusion as me. It gives me faith that my impressions might actually be connected to what we call objective reality, LOL. I'm guessing you bought it straight up at hifihub? Or did you get the last discounted one from OHFC?

I still can't get over how big of a step up the X9000 is to any other headphone I've ever heard before. I was beyond certain that the differences just couldn't be that big, and that I was mostly paying for the build quality and "TOTL" status. But it actually is that big of an improvement. Obviously as a disclaimer, any Stax headphone let alone the 007 is amazing headphones and easily top 5 in the world in terms of accurate sound reproduction - at least to me - so I'm bound to overstate any difference, as us audiophiles usually do. But the gains from any other headphone to the X9000 are incredible and OBVIOUS.

PS: If you use Roon, consider using MUSE and check out the oratory1990 SR-X9000 EQ to Harman Target (or EQ it yourself, of course). I played around with it a bit and must admit I prefer the EQ'ed result for most music. X9000 is probably the most EQ'able headphone in the world along with HE-1/Orpheus etc.

 

[LarsHP]

Congratulations!

I must admit, I am happy you came away with the same conclusion as me. It gives me faith that my impressions might actually be connected to what we call objective reality, LOL. I'm guessing you bought it straight up at hifihub? Or did you get the last discounted one from OHFC?

I still can't get over how big of a step up the X9000 is to any other headphone I've ever heard before. I was beyond certain that the differences just couldn't be that big, and that I was mostly paying for the build quality and "TOTL" status. But it actually is that big of an improvement. Obviously as a disclaimer, any Stax headphone let alone the 007 is amazing headphones and easily top 5 in the world in terms of accurate sound reproduction - at least to me - so I'm bound to overstate any difference, as us audiophiles usually do. But the gains from any other headphone to the X9000 are incredible and OBVIOUS.

PS: If you use Roon, consider using MUSE and check out the oratory1990 SR-X9000 EQ to Harman Target (or EQ it yourself, of course). I played around with it a bit and must admit I prefer the EQ'ed result for most music. X9000 is probably the most EQ'able headphone in the world along with HE-1/Orpheus etc.

Thanks! We agree that the step up from both SR-007 Mk2 and SR-009S to SR-X9000 is far from subtle or minor. To be honest, I expected a small but noticeable difference, but this wasn't the case, at least regarding the overall presentation which is quite different (to put it as an understatement).

For reference, I consider the difference in sound quality from my modded HiFiMan HE-6 to Stax SR-007 Mk2 with Blu-tac mod as small or even minor, and that was with the Stax run by my KGSSHV Carbon amp while the HE-6 was "only" driven by Rega Brio-R, a good choice for HE-6, but not a high end amplifier. The modded HE-6 is quite usable without EQ while SR-007 Mk2 just sounds dark and muffled without a boost in the upper mids and lower treble. When both are EQ'ed and modded, the difference in soundstage, detail retrieval and resolution is definitely minor in my opinion. It's there if you listen closely, but it's a small improvement over the HE-6. These impressions are also why I wasn't fully convinced by the 007mk2s.

However, going back and forth between SR-007 Mk2 (honestly, including the SR-009S) and SR-X9000 reveals a quite big difference, if not a dramatic one, at least in how open and spacious they sound. It's immediately audible, and after hearing the X9000, there was no way for me other than buying the SR-X9000, particularly considering the price I am getting it for.

Regarding where I bought it, I actually still haven't officially. I have only traded in and handed my SR-007 Mk2 to Headfreaks.dk in order to get a special X9000 price offered to SR-007 Mk2 customers. Since I live in Norway and the shop is in Denmark, I decided it was better that they send me the headphone, so VAT and import will be paid done correctly (instead of paying Danish VAT and then take the headphones with me to Norway). I should be able to receive the SR-X9000 in a week or two.

BTW: The dealer in Denmark said he sold 10 times as many SR-X9000 as SR-009S the last year.

 

[alota]

BTW: The dealer in Denmark said he sold 10 times as many SR-X9000 as SR-009S the last year.

At this price...i mad a sacrifice to buy the x-9000 but price was awesome

 

[icnaiwhimor1975]

BTW: The dealer in Denmark said he sold 10 times as many SR-X9000 as SR-009S the last year.

quite logical

 

[bearFNF]

This makes sense as the crowd I hang out with mostly thought the 009S was not a big enough change/improvement to justify the expense.
The X9000 makes is "seem" like more of a change, and the people I know that have listened to it (I have not) thought it was enough of a change to give it a go.
But, OUCH, that price point hurts. Won't be adding it to my stable any time soon.

 

[alota]

This makes sense as the crowd I hang out with mostly thought the 009S was not a big enough change/improvement to justify the expense.
The X9000 makes is "seem" like more of a change, and the people I know that have listened to it (I have not) thought it was enough of a change to give it a go.
But, OUCH, that price point hurts. Won't be adding it to my stable any time soon.

The official price is insane. The quality( with exception of driver's failure) is high but still highly priced

 

[TheAbyss2022]

The official price is insane. The quality( with exception of driver's failure) is high but still highly priced

The price of a used X9000 is basically the same as the price for a new 009S.

 

[alota]

The price of a used X9000 is basically the same as the price for a new 009S.

True but know you find new for 4169€

 

[LarsHP]

The price of a used X9000 is basically the same as the price for a new 009S.

That depends on where you look. At the Danish dealer (Headfreaks.dk) the price of the 009S is 74% of the X9000. Or, the X9000 35% more expensive than the 009S. So, not a huge price difference. That said, I would never have bought the X9000 for it's full price. It's only because of the great offer for SR-007 Mk2 customers I can afford it.

 

[alota]

That depends on where you look. At the Danish dealer (Headfreaks.dk) the price of the 009S is 74% of the X9000. Or, the X9000 35% more expensive than the 009S. So, not a huge price difference. That said, I would never have bought the X9000 for it's full price. It's only because of the great offer for SR-007 Mk2 customers I can afford it.

Same thing for me. The discount and the sell of other headphones

 

[Seele01]

i just switch from an woo audio ges + sr009 to a soren built KG GG + sr007. Never thought amplification made that much of a difference on the listinning, oh boy i was wrong !

what a spectacular change

 

[LarsHP]

i just switch from an woo audio ges + sr009 to a soren built KG GG + sr007. Never thought amplification made that much of a difference on the listinning, oh boy i was wrong !

what a spectacular change

I remember reading that electrostatic (headphone) amplifiers are more challenging to design than regular ones, which means there will be bigger sound differences than what is the case with amps for dynamic headphones.

 

[mulveling]

I remember reading that electrostatic (headphone) amplifiers are more challenging to design than regular ones, which means there will be bigger sound differences than what is the case with amps for dynamic headphones.

Yes - moving coil (dynamic) headphones are easy to amplify with way more headroom than you'd ever need or want. Let's look at Sennheiser HD650, which is quite efficient but many other models are not far off:

Sensitivity: 103dB for 1 Volt
= 98dB for 1 milliWatt

It's not difficult for amplifiers to have the capacity for hundreds of milliwatts (into 300 ohms), or even higher. For example, the GS-X (either version) should be able to easily dump over half a watt (500 mW) into 300 ohms in balanced mode (and probably a bit more, like 750mW or so). This would be analogous to using a 500+ Watts amp on 98dB / Watt speakers (you're just roughly scaling power UP and sensitivity DOWN each by a factor of 1,000). That yields a 125dB maximum output level (continuous) in either case. Ridiculous headroom!

Meanwhile, an e-stat amp's max output is going to be ultimately limited by their rail voltages. 500 Volts (DC) is about the most you can do. 350 - 400V is more typical. 400V DC translates to ~ 283 Volts AC (RMS). It's typical to see e-stat headphone sensitivity spec'd like (taking example of ES2a - you'll get a few more dB "free" from a 009 or L700):

99dB for 100V
= 108dB at 283 Volts continuous

So do you see? 108 dB max output from an e-stat amp running at 400V rails versus a 125 dB max output (possibly higher in actuality) for a dynamic setup with the amp running on (probably) something around 20 - 30 Volt rails. Vast headroom is easy in dynamic land. Not so with e-stats. For any given volume level, you're running e-state amps much closer to its output limits, and (most) e-stat amps are all the while constantly a LOT of heat from transistors running at 400 Volts.