The Stax Thread III

[elton7033]

some people write too many words for "I can't justify paying 5k$ for an amp" Some headphones are asking for a lot of clean power, that doesn't have anything to do with whether you like those headphones or not. Because 007 asks a lot of power, It doesn't mean that I'd upgrade my Carbon to T2 next month too. Don't think we are happy because we had to pay 5k$ for an amp to make our headphones sound right. I wish they'd sound right with 727A too. They just don't. 007's just sound wrong with 727A or 717 or 007t in average listening volumes. Or better to say: There are better headphones out there which sound better and cheaper than 007 If you'll pair it with 727A. A lot of people who have Carbon here confirmed that, I experienced that too. Denying these facts may confuse people who are reading this forum and then they'll buy 2100$ headphones, pay 2500$ or whatever for 727A and they might not like that combo in the end and waste a lot of money. Also you don't have to pay 5k$ or 6k$ for Carbon, You can buy a DIY carbon for 2500-3000$ from EU or Hong Kong, they sound just right. Second hands go for even cheaper. Mjolnir Carbon is slightly more detailed, less harsh and have better midrange-treble tonality aka less bright.

That's how It looks like inside. This particular one uses KG 0.64 boards If I recall right.

If you are curious why electrostatic headphones need huge amps and some ask for a lot of power, there is a fantastic article written by JimL in that "other forum". Title is: "Output Stage Current Requirements for Electrostatic Headphone Amps" Enjoy.

My Mjolnir Carbon looks a bit different inside I wonder why...the board are much smaller

 

[Tugbars]

That is not a Mjolnir Carbon that's why. That one was made in Hong Kong. I just wanted to show how DIY Carbon looks like inside.

 

[AudioThief]

some people write too many words for "I can't justify paying 5k$ for an amp" Some headphones are asking for a lot of clean power, that doesn't have anything to do with whether you like those headphones or not. Because 007 asks a lot of power, It doesn't mean that I'd upgrade my Carbon to T2 next month too. Don't think we are happy because we had to pay 5k$ for an amp to make our headphones sound right. I wish they'd sound right with 727A too. They just don't. 007's just sound wrong with 727A or 717 or 007t in average listening volumes. Or better to say: There are better headphones out there which sound better and cheaper than 007 If you'll pair it with 727A. A lot of people who have Carbon here confirmed that, I experienced that too. Denying these facts may confuse people who are reading this forum and then they'll buy 2100$ headphones, pay 2500$ or whatever for 727A and they might not like that combo in the end and waste a lot of money. Also you don't have to pay 5k$ or 6k$ for Carbon, You can buy a DIY carbon for 2500-3000$ from EU or Hong Kong, they sound just right. Second hands go for even cheaper. Mjolnir Carbon is slightly more detailed, less harsh and have better midrange-treble tonality aka less bright.

That's how It looks like inside. This particular one uses KG 0.64 boards If I recall right.

If you are curious why electrostatic headphones need huge amps and some ask for a lot of power, there is a fantastic article written by JimL in that "other forum". Title is: "Output Stage Current Requirements for Electrostatic Headphone Amps" Enjoy.

I think your definition of "fact" is very different from mine. But we all know who gets banned if we keep having this conversation, so I'll quit. Anyone can make up their own mind about it. But you should consider the "fact" that people mean the T2 sound better than the Carbon, and unless you've heard it, that means it likely means even more power than the Carbon. So just remember, you're likely missing out.

 

[paradoxper]

some people write too many words for "I can't justify paying 5k$ for an amp" Some headphones are asking for a lot of clean power, that doesn't have anything to do with whether you like those headphones or not. Because 007 asks a lot of power, It doesn't mean that I'd upgrade my Carbon to T2 next month too. Don't think we are happy because we had to pay 5k$ for an amp to make our headphones sound right. I wish they'd sound right with 727A too. They just don't. 007's just sound wrong with 727A or 717 or 007t in average listening volumes. Or better to say: There are better headphones out there which sound better and cheaper than 007 If you'll pair it with 727A. A lot of people who have Carbon here confirmed that, I experienced that too. Denying these facts may confuse people who are reading this forum and then they'll buy 2100$ headphones, pay 2500$ or whatever for 727A and they might not like that combo in the end and waste a lot of money. Also you don't have to pay 5k$ or 6k$ for Carbon, You can buy a DIY carbon for 2500-3000$ from EU or Hong Kong, they sound just right. Second hands go for even cheaper. Mjolnir Carbon is slightly more detailed, less harsh and have better midrange-treble tonality aka less bright.

That's how It looks like inside. This particular one uses KG 0.64 boards If I recall right.

If you are curious why electrostatic headphones need huge amps and some ask for a lot of power, there is a fantastic article written by JimL in that "other forum". Title is: "Output Stage Current Requirements for Electrostatic Headphone Amps" Enjoy.

I don't think it's the he can't justify the $5k amp thing but rather he hasn't heard the $5k amp thing and continues talking out of his ass.

 

[6PANDEMONIUM6]

some people write too many words for "I can't justify paying 5k$ for an amp" Some headphones are asking for a lot of clean power, that doesn't have anything to do with whether you like those headphones or not. Because 007 asks a lot of power, It doesn't mean that I'd upgrade my Carbon to T2 next month too. Don't think we are happy because we had to pay 5k$ for an amp to make our headphones sound right. I wish they'd sound right with 727A too. They just don't. 007's just sound wrong with 727A or 717 or 007t in average listening volumes. Or better to say: There are better headphones out there which sound better and cheaper than 007 If you'll pair it with 727A. A lot of people who have Carbon here confirmed that, I experienced that too. Denying these facts may confuse people who are reading this forum and then they'll buy 2100$ headphones, pay 2500$ or whatever for 727A and they might not like that combo in the end and waste a lot of money. Also you don't have to pay 5k$ or 6k$ for Carbon, You can buy a DIY carbon for 2500-3000$ from EU or Hong Kong, they sound just right. Second hands go for even cheaper. Mjolnir Carbon is slightly more detailed, less harsh and have better midrange-treble tonality aka less bright.

That's how It looks like inside. This particular one uses KG 0.64 boards If I recall right.

If you are curious why electrostatic headphones need huge amps and some ask for a lot of power, there is a fantastic article written by JimL in that "other forum". Title is: "Output Stage Current Requirements for Electrostatic Headphone Amps" Enjoy.

If a pair of headphones only sounds correct with 1 particular diy amp which just so happens to cost as much as a used car then that is the fault of the headphones, not the owner. For the record, I have tried the 007Mk.1s on many amps, including the BHSE, and they were not to my taste on any of them. If you're saying that the one and only headphone amp that works is the kgsshv/carbon well then the 007Mk.1s themselves are the problem. L700s and 009s are simply more enjoyable for me no matter what they're plugged into. Whether that be a 252S or a BHSE.

 

[6PANDEMONIUM6]

The problem here is that when people get 007s and don't like them the Stax Mafia just tells them, "Oh, just spend $6K on an amp and you'll magically start to love them." No, they still sound like 007s.

 

[Tugbars]

This conversation isn't about if 007 is worth the money or whether you like it or not. Just make sure to listen 007's with a proper amp before you buy. I use it with Carbon, I like it, good for me. If you didn't like it, good for you. BHSE is a bit too warm for 007(in my opinion), if you didn't like it get something else. Expect to get corrected though, if you have listened to it with 727A + 500$ dac and say "oh noes 007 sucks". Or if you say things like, "If you are buying 007, you don't need more than 727, 007 doesn't deserve better amp than that." One last note: Trust me, Stax Mafia cares less about what we like than Stax cares about international market.

 

[6PANDEMONIUM6]

This conversation isn't about if 007 is worth the money or whether you like it or not. Just make sure to listen 007's with a proper amp before you buy. I use it with Carbon, I like it, good for me. If you didn't like it, good for you. BHSE is a bit too warm for 007(in my opinion), if you didn't like it get something else. Expect to get corrected though, if you have listened to it with 727A + 500$ dac and say "oh noes 007 sucks". Or if you say things like, "If you are buying 007, you don't need more than 727, 007 doesn't deserve better amp than that." One last note: Trust me, Stax Mafia cares less about what we like than Stax cares about international market.

Well, this is the Stax thread. So yes, the conversation is about whether the 007s are good and worth the money actually. All conversations here should be about whether Stax are good and worth the money.

 

[chocolates]

i think the point being made is that the core tonality of the 007 isn't going to change and if one happens to not like it then no amount of clean power will change that, which isn't a very controversial take; i think you guys are kind of just arguing past each other. i like the 007 and i think i got gains worth the money upgrading to a KGSSHV Carbon (well, anything's better than the 252S) but i also think i'd prefer the 007 to the lambda even if the only amp i had access to was the underpowered 252S, but i can see why others would disagree on that point

but in other news, has anyone tried using the ED-1 with the SR-Lambda/signature?

 

[6PANDEMONIUM6]

i think the point being made is that the core tonality of the 007 isn't going to change and if one happens to not like it then no amount of clean power will change that, which isn't a very controversial take; i think you guys are kind of just arguing past each other. i like the 007 and i think i got gains worth the money upgrading to a KGSSHV Carbon (well, anything's better than the 252S) but i also think i'd prefer the 007 to the lambda even if the only amp i had access to was the underpowered 252S, but i can see why others would disagree on that point

but in other news, has anyone tried using the ED-1 with the SR-Lambda/signature?

The sr-lambda signature has a completely different equalization unit. They both have one but they're not interchangeable. This is the unit for the lambda pro and this is the unit for the lambda signature: (My buddy owns the one for the signature and I own the one for the Pro.)

 

[6PANDEMONIUM6]

It's confusing because they are both named "ed-1" but they are not the same unit. ED-1 Pro and ED-1 Sig. Unfortunately, the ed-1 signature is pretty much unobtainable. I don't think that many units were made.

 

[Tugbars]

i think the point being made is that the core tonality of the 007 isn't going to change and if one happens to not like it then no amount of clean power will change that, which isn't a very controversial take; i think you guys are kind of just arguing past each other. i like the 007 and i think i got gains worth the money upgrading to a KGSSHV Carbon (well, anything's better than the 252S) but i also think i'd prefer the 007 to the lambda even if the only amp i had access to was the underpowered 252S, but i can see why others would disagree on that point

but in other news, has anyone tried using the ED-1 with the SR-Lambda/signature?

Yes, you can't change 2-4khz recession of 007. That said, with better dacs, instead of sounding dark & lacking in detail, it will just sound *laid back*. Treble & bass performances are however dependent to amplification. Treble extension of electrostatic headphones are related to current output of the amp. I don't know what effects bass performance, bass sounds different from one amp to another. Probably it has something to do how the signal is processed during amplification more than power & voltage swing or what not.

 

[118900]

The problem here is that when people get 007s and don't like them the Stax Mafia just tells them, "Oh, just spend $6K on an amp and you'll magically start to love them." No, they still sound like 007s.

I spent considerably less than 2K on my amp and my 007s sound noticeably better (for my tastes) than the Audeze lcd-4z, both driven out of a chord hugo 2.

There is a distinct difference between somebody disliking a “sound signature” from properly driven HPs as opposed to disliking the sound from badly driven HPs.

and for what it’s worth I haven’t heard anyone say the kgsshv (diy about 2.5k USD) can’t drive the 007s, merely that the better amps sound better. Considering the cost of the higher end Stax amps I’m not sure that’s really such a big difference.

not to mention why Stax developed the T2

 

[Audio Addict]

I am new to the Stax world having just picked up the 009S in December being powered by an A-10 Thunderbolt II with a DirectStream DAC. I have been amazed at what the Stax deliver. I look forward to learning more from this thread.

 

[number1sixerfan]

007 (early serial MK1 here) is absolutely worth the money. I think I paid $1400 for mine? I can't think of a single headphone that's better for the money. It's quite a bit different than the average Stax headphone, definitely fine if it isn't someone's cup of tea (as with any headphone imo). Also, it IS really hard to drive and DOES need a sufficient amp (I don't know why this has to be such a recurring conversation when it's just a fact lol).. and the 009 is also just better, in almost every regard.

All of these things can be true lol