The Stax Thread III

[zolkis]

Arnaud, actually I am very interested in your long term experience, since you have both, and will be able to spend long enough time with both. I occasionally have the opportunity to listen to a 009, so much of my opinion is based on long term tests with the 007 but only short tests with the 009. To be fair, a lot of people prefer the 009 with does not matter what amp. For those of us who don't have the means to test long enough, these opinions are very helpful.

 

[preproman]

Are there any 007 / Electra rigs out there?  How does that rig compare to the BHSE / 007?  

 

[negura]

 

 
Due to being busy/lazy I sometimes just get on with whichever headphone is connected and at hand. On the 14mA/450V offboard KGSSHV I always prefer the SR-009 with both short and long term listening. I would also think the amp is more than capable driving the SR-007s.
 
The time it takes to "adapt" to the SR-007 is in my opinion because it's that much less transparent and more colored sounding. The latter of which may be very pleasing, but it's an artifact. There isn't any time needed to "adapt" back to the SR-009s. That's always the case in my experience when switching to more colored/less transparent headphones.
 
Outside this, both headphones are highly transparent to downstream gear. So any system choices/matches would have direct impact.

 

[Ali-Pacha]

@ Arnaud
You are part-responsible for my BHSE order, please don't push the SR-007 mk1 too much...it would hurt my wallet again

Ali

 

[eric65]

Hello,
 
My appreciation of the SR-009 versus SR-007mk2 (on the combo RKV-Verto, better than the SRM 727 amp) for the reproductive of the Piano timbre (tone) (Nb: my mother is a pianist and plays 1-2 hours per day on a piano Bösendorfer 200)
 
Well with the 009, the restitution of the timbre (tone) of a Steinway or a Bösendorfer is credible (relatively realistic) ; with the 007mk2, I do not recognize the sound of these two pianos, as if the sound was muted (with a certain lack of clarity); the 007mk2 sounds like a pretty dull piano, that does not exist yet commercially for the prestigious pianos.

 

[zolkis]

On the 14mA/450V offboard KGSSHV I always prefer the SR-009 with both short and long term listening. I would also think the amp is more than capable driving the SR-007s.

 
Thanks, this is useful. I have also heard the same comment from another head-fier, so there is a preference pattern this way, too. BTW both of you were using the KGSSHV. That's probably my choice for the 009 as well, but the 007 may be better with the BHSE, so still waiting for Arnaud's verdict too .
 
I also agree with the comment of longer adaptation is needed with the 007 because it's darker. However, the 007 can be made sound more open, by the means of ear pad mods, and that bit changes a lot. However, until these mods are non-standard, this is not widely helpful. Tomorrow hopefully I will get my 009 pads which I expect improving the sound of 007 in similar way my own pads do. It likely won't become a 009, but let's see how far it goes. If it's a dead end, I will post that too.

 

[TheAttorney]

Interesting how we've had a whole spate of posts saying they prefer the 007s over the 009s. Made me smile in a wry sort of way.
 
I've held onto my 007s (now with BHSE) for years since the 009s were announced - primarily because of my aversion to over bright recordings.
I don't go in for different headphones for different occasions. I want one headphone for all occasions.
 
A few weeks ago I succumbed and a booked an entire half day at highendheadphones' showroom where I was was able to compare the two at my leisure with my BHSE and the shop's pretty decent Bryston CDP and DAC. Apart from the fact I still prefer the 007's overall tonal balance (Dark has always been the new Black for me), I felt the 009s won on every single other parameter I could think of. And that included some difficult tracks (eg close miked female vocals bordering on sibilance) that I thought might trouble the 009s.
 
So I've ordered the 009s, to be delivered next month. Time will tell if the 3-week rule mentioned above will apply to me. As has already been mentioned, a lot depends on source synergy and IMO just about every cable and tweaky thingy in between.
 
Incidentally, while I had all the high end dynamic headphones at my disposal, at the end of the Stax comparison I did a quick round robin try of Abyss, LCD3. HE6, HD800 and new kid that sounds something like Obravo. All driven by the McIntosh headamp and an unidentified CDP. It was only a quick check for fun, but none of these other headphones caused me to question my long term electrostatic choice. Of these, the Abyss came closest to challenging the BHSE/009s on SQ, but I'd never buy something that looks like a medieval instrument of torture. The Obravos were very disappointing in this company

 

[zolkis]

 the Abyss came closest to challenging the BHSE/009s on SQ

 
Can you tell more about this? Abyss-bass vs Stax-tux?

 

[negura]

 

 
Did the dealer try to accommodate fitting the Abyss for you? When I heard them I had to keep the headphones pressed to my head to get any proper seal.

 

[TheAttorney]

I often read posts that the 009s are bass-light. On the evidence of my comparison session, I'd say that the 009s are bass-right, in that every other headphone I tried after, including the Abyss, sounded slightly bass-obvious, with varying degrees of bass bloat/boom.
So although I'd still prefer the 009s to slightly tilt the bass upwards (and treble slightly downwards), what bass they did produce was unparalleled in terms of transparency, texture and timbre.
 
Although I didn't think the Abyss had quite the same level of openness and transparency as the 009s (at any frequency), the Abyss did sound very good indeed (especially rock music). The bass was a touch bloated, but I'm sure that could have been improved with a better fit. The Abyss were a loose fit on my head. After a few seconds looking at the design, I couldn't work out how to adjust them closer. The whole structure is completely rigid and I couldn't be bothered to find the instructions manual or ask the showroom owner (who was busy listening to my BHSE at the time).
 
So I'm sure that the Abyss could be better still with appropriate adjustment and synergy. But that wasn't the point of my visit. Had my jaw dropped to the floor then I may have investigated further, but as it was I saw no compelling reason to make the huge investment to jump ship to the dynamics world. My trusty HD600s remain just fine as a back-up headphone for occasional non-critical listening.

 

[AnakChan]

  Are there any 007 / Electra rigs out there?  How does that rig compare to the BHSE / 007?  

 
When Arnaud receives his BHSE, I hope to compare my Electra (XF2 tubes with EH & Tung Sol 6SN7s). with his. And we both have slightly different 007Mk1's too (his are brown pads, mine are black).

 

[vortrex]

Vortrex, that depends on your perception of music, so you need to try that one out yourself. I would choose the 007, but I would understand why people would prefer the 507. Better spend the money on better amp, it's safer path to the future.

 
In general I understand the 007 is better than the 507, but I was really only concerned about that pair with the 323s.  It seems the 007's need a lot more power, which the 323s cannot provide.  I am at half volume and it really isn't that loud.  Bass control seems pretty bad with the 007/323s combo.  I am guessing the 507's are much more efficient and therefore could perform better with the 323s?

 

[Rossliew]

Can anyone advise if the 007 Mk II would be a good e-stat can for metal? I have a KGST to pair with if that is of any help. Many have said the Mk I is superior in sound but I've also heard reliability issues with the cable connection at the ear cups so I don't want to spend a huge amount of money only for parts to fail several weeks/months down the road. Any advice/feedback is much appreciated!

 

[Rico613]

I recently compared an excellent Cavalli 2T electrostatic amp with 009's to my dynamic setup, (LCD-3s / Eddie Current 445 with EML mesh plate tubes).  The electrostatics sounded very clear, more detailed, and more spacious, but not as dramatic and "emotional" as the dynamic setup.  So I'm curious is anyone has the impression that the SR009 or electrostatics in general are somewhat flat in overall response?  Maybe the difference is in the mesh tubes which are known drama queens!

 

[zolkis]

In general I understand the 007 is better than the 507, but I was really only concerned about that pair with the 323s.  It seems the 007's need a lot more power, which the 323s cannot provide.  I am at half volume and it really isn't that loud.  Bass control seems pretty bad with the 007/323s combo.  I am guessing the 507's are much more efficient and therefore could perform better with the 323s?
 

 
I may be minority here, but when I had both the 507 and the 007 Mk1 and the 323S, and I tried them many times, I preferred the 007 even if it wasn't the best amp match. However, somebody else may prefer the 507 because it's:
- much more open sounding
- more efficient/loud on the 323S
- big, deep bass with somewhat bigger slam on the 323S than the 007, though the 007 went deeper and had more of a midbass emphasis vs the 507's lower bass emphasis
- midrange of 007 was calmer and better to my ears, but the 507 was much more clear sounding
- treble was smoother on the 007, but subdued; the 507 was more clear.
- 007 sound stage was wider, the 507 was higher, both with good depth.
Sounds funny, but I thought the 507 has too much treble, mids and bass... how come? it's somehow the texture of the music flows more natural with the 007.
 
The 507 bears most resemblance to the HD800, with more fluid midrange, better treble and bigger bass, vs the Senn's bigger sound stage and more neutral/accurate sound. Or an AKG812, with better mids and losing on the rest.
 
The 007 is more like a Stax version of Fostex TH900/ Denon 7000 sound, with less deep bass and otherwise better everything. It comes down to personal preference which tonality one likes more.
 
If you are bothered by the dark creamy caramel sound of the 007 after a longer period of accomodation, it's not for you. For making it sound more open, you can alternatively try other ear pads, and set the head band wider and bend the drivers inwards a bit, but not too loose, and pressure should be equal around the ears.
 
When you go up to the 009, it's similar open tonality of the 507/HD800, only with larger sound stage, higher musical resolution, smoother sound, and better, deeper bass as well (this last bit is contradicting a few others' experience). Also, more sensitive, which may be misleading during A/B comparisons.