The Stax Thread III

[Moonhead]

Im you dont Like 009 bright signature Stick With LCD3 or get 007

 

[cucera]

Or get a new SR-009 they have reduced the treble quite significantly, but a SR-007 MK1 is never wrong except the amp

 

[realmassy]

Or get a new SR-009 they have reduced the treble quite significantly, but a SR-007 MK1 is never wrong except the amp

 
Where is this claim coming from?

 

[cucera]

I heard some rumors. The Stax Mafia confirmed on the other Site.

Now I found some measurements on Tylls site that look to me like a prove of that claim.

Old Version:

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/StaxSR009SZ91278.pdf

New Version?:

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/StaxSR009SNSZ92251KGSS.pdf


Up to 5dB difference 6-8 kHz

 

[Rico613]

I was listening to the new Cavalli Liquid Lightning 2T over the weekend using my SR009's.  I really like the sound coming from that amp - very clear and detailed with a touch of smooth tube warmth.  As for the 009's brightness, I've been using equalizers to tame those trebles.  There is a very good EQ thread on head-fi here.   

 

[alcyst]

I heard some rumors. The Stax Mafia confirmed on the other Site.

Now I found some measurements on Tylls site that look to me like a prove of that claim.

Old Version:
http://www.innerfide....009SZ91278.pdf

New Version?:
http://www.innerfide....Z92251KGSS.pdf

Up to 5dB difference 6-8 kHz

You have done something odd with those links. Whatever was intended they actually to head-fi pages.
 
Looks like your second is to this page;
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/stax-mafia-makes-unrefusable-offer-and-i-begin-electrostatic-headphone-measurement-program
 
This page is probably the best source;
http://www.innerfidelity.com/headphone-data-sheet-downloads
 
It lists 4 SR009 of which the KGSS sample looks different, the other 3 seem similiar?

 

[cucera]

You have done something odd with those links. Whatever was intended they actually to head-fi pages.

Looks like your second is to this page;


This page is probably the best source;
http://www.innerfidelity.com/headphone-data-sheet-downloads

Weird! That worked in my browser in my browser.

I have edited my post and pasted the links again. Now they should work.

No matter we see two SR -009 with different SN seperated by roughly 1000 and The second one being totally new. The differences are so big that normal variations within a series can be ruled out. But it is not unusual for Stax to change the drivers within a series without notification.

yes all the measurements are they are unther data sheets. And it is true that the last one was made with another amplifier the review version of for KGSS. But no solid state amp in the world can do differences of 5dB in this frequency range.

 

[rgs9200m]

 
I was listening to the new Cavalli Liquid Lightning 2T over the weekend using my SR009's.  I really like the sound coming from that amp - very clear and detailed with a touch of smooth tube warmth.  As for the 009's brightness, I've been using equalizers to tame those trebles.  There is a very good EQ thread on head-fi here.   

Was this the tubed or solid state version? Any more comments on the 2T would be welcome. There is not much reported on it.
Of course the sonics are the most important thing, but also: does the stepped volume control have fine enough gradations?
How much heat does it generate? Thanks in advance.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Weird! That worked in my browser in my browser.

I have edited my post and pasted the links again. Now they should work.

No matter we see two SR -009 with different SN seperated by roughly 1000 and The second one being totally new. The differences are so big that normal variations within a series can be ruled out. But it is not unusual for Stax to change the drivers within a series without notification.

yes all the measurements are they are unther data sheets. And it is true that the last one was made with another amplifier the review version of for KGSS. But no solid state amp in the world can do differences of 5dB in this frequency range.

Yeah...sorry, but they look rather identical to me and well within measurement variations.
Furthermore, the older unit has it's FR shifted up at 1kHz (where it's typically should be set to 0dB) by about 3dB over the newer one. As well, if you look at the the same older unit with some "burn-in" applied, you will notice some shifting for that same reason AND the FR responses are pretty much identical older unit (w/ burn-in) and the newer one

.
 
Plus, the newer one was tested on a proper KGSS and I'm not sure what Tyll used to measure the older one. If it was a Stax amp, then all bets are off. 

 
For variations on measurements, please have a look here:
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/expert-tests-innerfidelitys-headphone-measurement-repeatability-and-reproducibility

 

[Super Pang]

Hi fellas
 
I fancy some STAX for Christmas. These will be my first electrostatic headphones. I was looking at the SR-507 and SRM-006tS as that combination fits my budget and I fancy trying valves. Slightly concerned to hear the 507 are bright though. Are the 407 less so? How fussy are they about source components?
 
I'm thinking of buying from PriceJapan as the prices are so much cheaper than here in the UK. Am I right in thinking the 006tS sold here has an internal 230V power supply though? I'm no stranger to step-down transformers but it'll look a lot tidier without one I suppose. How often do these amps develop a fault? The lack of warranty would be a concern too. It's literally half the price though!
 
Thanks

 

[Michgelsen]

Yes, if bought in the UK, the amp will be set up for 230V. Changing a Japanese import amp to 230V nowadays involves soldering and is tricky. Stax amps are reliable though, at least that's the impression I get around here. Only very sporadically a report surfaces from a malfunction. I have had a very old Stax amp malfunction once, but the problem was easily fixed by a local technician. I wouldn't worry about it. To be completely honest, I would worry more about the headphones malfunctioning before the amp.
 
Differences between 507 and 407 are reported to be minimal and/or entirely caused by the slightly different pads. The headband is different however. Some people (with large heads for example) do not like the new 507 headband; others (like me) like it, because it clamps a bit better, providing a better seal, and actually remembers its size setting.
The 507 is bright, but smooth, and also has good bass. I have a bad tolerance for sharp, bright highs, but somehow I can enjoy the 507, although it did need some getting used to.
 
I think the 006tS is a good choice. I had a SRM-T1 in the past which is (almost completely) identical, and it was very good with Lambda's, which the 507 is too.
 
All Stax are fussy about source components, as they are very transparent and detailed.
 
Remember: with shipping, pricejapan fee, and most of all VAT, pricejapan will probably only be cheaper by 25% or so. I don't know about customs in the UK, but here in the Netherlands I have never had a package 'slip through' without having to pay VAT. It's up to you, but having warranty and being able to try before you buy is worth something too. If you can persuade the shop owner to lower the price a bit, the gap decreases even further. However, Japanese import remains attractive. See the 507 appreciation thread for a story about pricejapan and warranty/repairs though. Know that it is a risk.

 

[cucera]

Yeah...sorry, but they look rather identical to me and well within measurement variations.
Furthermore, the older unit has it's FR shifted up at 1kHz (where it's typically should be set to 0dB) by about 3dB over the newer one. As well, if you look at the the same older unit with some "burn-in" applied, you will notice some shifting for that same reason AND the FR responses are pretty much identical older unit (w/ burn-in) and the newer one .

Plus, the newer one was tested on a proper KGSS and I'm not sure what Tyll used to measure the older one. If it was a Stax amp, then all bets are off. 

Sorry, you seem to look at totally different measurements. It is not so that the burned in is different at 7-8kHz. But definitly the new one.

I am posting a screenshot of the critical frequency


old




new



And I see even 7 dB at 7-8kHz in this area a differenz at least as pronounced as the difference in a SR-007 MK1 to MK2.5, where everybode agrees upon those.

This is my definition of a much brighter phone it is very unlikely the measurement and even impossible amp influence, the Mafia agrees with me. And as the older one was measured with a BHSE that should be even brighter than KGSS due to higher voltage swing and more current.

 

[cucera]

Hi fellas

I fancy some STAX for Christmas. These will be my first electrostatic headphones. I was looking at the SR-507 and SRM-006tS as that combination fits my budget and I fancy trying valves. Slightly concerned to hear the 507 are bright though. Are the 407 less so? How fussy are they about source components?

If you are concerned about brightness take a 207 IMHO the best sub 009 in the current line as I don't like bright cans too.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Sorry, you seem to look at totally different measurements. It is not so that the burned in is different at 7-8kHz. But definitly the new one.

I am posting a screenshot of the critical frequency


old




new



even 7 dB at 7-8kHz differenz. This is my definition of a much brighter phone it is very unlikely the measurement and even impossible amp influence, the Mafia agrees with me. And as the older one was measured with a BHSE that should be even brighter than KGSS due to higher voltage swing and more current.

 
I strongly recommend that you read the article that I published and linked earlier from innerfidelity.com? Measurements in the treble region are not very repeatable:
 
" ...the variability really begins to become strongly affected. The average standard deviation in this region is now almost 5dB. So yet again, variations of +/-5dB are to be expected in this region. The maximum variability is approximately 18dB, higher still. So it appears that the slightest headphone placement on the head can significantly change the high frequency resonances in the dummy head and drastically reduce the measurement system's ability to precisely measure higher frequencies."
 
As I also noted, please compare the older serial number AFTER burn-in (which is the exact same headphone...just with some more hours on it) and you'll see that it doesn't look the same as before burn-in.

 As well, look at the lower graphs of the individual measurements....they support the statement above with variations exceeding 10dB. As found in the data (this article used the HD800s), one standard deviation was 5dB. If we assume a Gaussian distribution, then one can expect 950 measurements out of 1000 to contain deviations to be within 10dB.
 
And the amps were different! The latter one had the benefit of a "proper" amp (the KGSSHV) and the older one didn't.

 

[cucera]

I strongly recommend that you read the article that I published and linked earlier from innerfidelity.com? Measurements in the treble region are not very repeatable:

"[COLOR=333333] ...the variability really begins to become strongly affected. The average standard deviation in this region is now almost 5dB. So yet again, variations of +/-5dB are to be expected in this region. The maximum variability is approximately 18dB, higher still. So it appears that the slightest headphone placement on the head can significantly change the high frequency resonances in the dummy head and drastically reduce the measurement system's ability to precisely measure higher frequencies."[/COLOR]


And the amps were different! The latter one had the benefit of a "proper" amp (the KGSSHV) and the older one didn't.

BHSE not a "proper" amp? And the Review unit is a KGSS with HV output transistors.

I have read the article, but that is why Tyll averages a few measurements. Still let's settle this with we agree to disagree.