[ColSaulTigh]

Someone should pin a thread about which estats amps are proven to be faulty/scams/horrendously over priced, because the number of offenders are pretty bad.

Proven:
Mjolnir Audio (Birgir)
Headamp (Justin)
Soren
GeorgeP
Eksonic (kerry)

Serious Offenders:
Jr Audio / Felitsa
Ray Samuels Audio
Woo

Can I get some clarification, please?

Are we saying that on this list, the "Proven" are BAD builders, and the "Serious Offenders" are REALLY BAD builders?

Where's the list of "Good" builders? Also, what's the criteria for a builder being bad or good? I'm new to estats and would like to learn this stuff.

Thanks!

 

[ufospls2]

Can I get some clarification, please?

Are we saying that on this list, the "Proven" are BAD builders, and the "Serious Offenders" are REALLY BAD builders?

Where's the list of "Good" builders? Also, what's the criteria for a builder being bad or good? I'm new to estats and would like to learn this stuff.

Thanks!

Proven would mean good/well built/well designed, in the context of that list.

With that being said, I do feel the so called "stax mafia" aka Head-Case can be overly critical in some cases or write things off out of hand that may actually have some value. Still, when it comes to e-stat amps specifically, if you buy a well thought of amp by the mafia, at least you know you are getting something decent and competent. The Mafia also tends to poohoo anything (seemingly) that is not designed or built by themselves.

It becomes a bit complicated, because the vast majority of the designs are based upon KG DIY designs, and as such, can be built really well, or be disasters. So amp "x" built by one builder might be great, whilst the same amp "x" built by another builder might be poorly built at best, dangerous to your headphones at worst.

 

[bearFNF]

Can I get some clarification, please?

Are we saying that on this list, the "Proven" are BAD builders, and the "Serious Offenders" are REALLY BAD builders?

Where's the list of "Good" builders? Also, what's the criteria for a builder being bad or good? I'm new to estats and would like to learn this stuff.

Thanks!

Was going to ask the same question. As, presenting a list of "proven" with no qualifier other than a statement just prior of "proven to be faulty/scams/horrendously over priced", would imply the list is "Proven..faulty...etc". Which is not the case IMO.

Edit: This is also a thin ice territory that might be best to have the discussion NOT on a public site. As ultimately, it is subjective at best. As, who defines overpriced and faulty? As far as being scams, that is at risk of becoming Libel (damaging) and could be actionable depending on what is said. Especially when looking at the original post and it's unclear statement of what the list represents.

 

[musicman59]

Someone should pin a thread about which estats amps are proven to be faulty/scams/horrendously over priced, because the number of offenders are pretty bad.

Proven:
Mjolnir Audio (Birgir)
Headamp (Justin)
Soren
GeorgeP
Eksonic (kerry)

Serious Offenders:
Jr Audio / Felitsa
Ray Samuels Audio
Woo

Can you explain why Ray Samuels Audio is classified as serious offender?

I own the A-10 Thunderbolt and it is very well built. It may not have the same power level at 1,200v per channel compared for instance to the 1,600v of the BHSE or 2,000v of the T2 but it power fine my X9000 and sounds really good.

Actually with the SR-009 I prefer it compared to the BHSE due to a warmer tonality.

 

[mulveling]

Yes, the "proven" list is all good stuff - I think that's universally undisputed. From my perspective the Mafia is indeed harsh, but they do point out some very concerning issues in other builds, and I enjoy their tear-downs and analysis. Mjolnir (Birgir) is the most over-the-top about being dismissive to non-Mafia builds, but then a lot of it is warranted and he does make important contributions to the hobby. And Kevin Gilmore is just the best

 

[mulveling]

Can you explain why Ray Samuels Audio is classified as serious offender?

I own the A-10 Thunderbolt and it is very well built. It may not have the same power level at 1,200v per channel compared for instance to the 1,600v of the BHSE or 2,000v of the T2 but it power fine my X9000 and sounds really good.

Actually with the SR-009 I prefer it compared to the BHSE due to a warmer tonality.

What I've heard before, is the 5687 tubes being run at voltages way beyond their rating - this is why you don't see them used in other electrostatic amps, along with the lack of any new production for this tube. You're right, the 1,200 PP voltage is low for a high-end 'stat amp but that's still enough to well exceed the 5687's on-paper ratings. That said, a lot of vintages tubes can take some abuse no problemo. In the traditional 2ch tube amp world, folks will put 6SN7GT or 5692 tubes in slots designated for 6SN7GTA/GTB, well over their ratings, and not blink an eye. They won't last quite as long, but it can be "OK". You know, I once accidentally ran a vintage Siemens 6922 tube at 12 Volt heater instead of 6V, for like 24 hours - a new production tube would have melted down long before that. By the time I noticed, it was glowing like the sun! It still tests good too, but ~ 20% down (gain and transconductance) from where it was at before.

I don't know if there are additional issues cited for the A10. The 6SN7 based preamp circuit is kind of a cheesy bolt-in, honestly.

Back in the 2000s there was "amp wars" between Singlepower and RSA and the KG / Mafia crew. So a lot of vitriol came out for RSA amps. But other than some early issues with the Raptor, I've never heard of reliability issues for RSA gear. Ray's gear has always sounded really nice to me, and I love his industrial design - so pretty inside and out They couldn't bash Ray on build quality, though it was open season on Singlepower lol. With Ray, they would always bash the circuit design (he didn't use a "blessed" design, or it was too unorthodox, or he took it from here or there, etc), never build. Anyways, I've love to try some of his higher end stuff

When I have heard 5687 (not in A10), it's been a GREAT sounding tube.

 

[buzzlulu]

Let's not overthink this.
Everyone is free to do as they see fit.....buyers beware..,and Google is your friend.

 

[VandyMan]

Yes, the "proven" list is all good stuff - I think that's universally undisputed. From my perspective the Mafia is indeed harsh, but they do point out some very concerning issues in other builds, and I enjoy their tear-downs and analysis. Mjolnir (Birgir) is the most over-the-top about being dismissive to non-Mafia builds, but then a lot of it is warranted and he does make important contributions to the hobby. And Kevin Gilmore is just the best

Agree. I appreciate and *mostly* trust Birgir's opinion, but let's please keep in mind that he has a financial interest in this. AFAIK, Kevin Golmore does not get royalties/payment from those using his designs, so I consider his expert opinion unimpeachable.

 

[Tachikoma]

The 5687 has a maximum plate voltage of 300V, but a maximum inverse plate voltage of 1000V. Maybe 1200 Vpp still works?

 

[Aspirant Audiophile]

Someone should pin a thread about which estats amps are proven to be faulty/scams/horrendously over priced, because the number of offenders are pretty bad.

Proven:
Mjolnir Audio (Birgir)
Headamp (Justin)
Soren
GeorgeP
Eksonic (kerry)

Serious Offenders:
Jr Audio / Felitsa
Ray Samuels Audio
Woo

There is also HeadinClouds and JohnwMclean (sp?).

 

[alota]

I've never understood why We have to use power plants to drive headphones. Anyway...today, after many years in this hobby, i received my first electrostatic headphone: the sr-009

 

[buzzlulu]

I've never understood why We have to use power plants to drive headphones. Anyway...today, after many years in this hobby, i received my first electrostatic headphone: the sr-009

Congratulations…and you will shortly find out why

 

[mulveling]

I've never understood why We have to use power plants to drive headphones. Anyway...today, after many years in this hobby, i received my first electrostatic headphone: the sr-009

Electrostatic forces are very very weak compared to electromagnetic (coil and magnet). The physics are stacked against the electrostatic approach. Even a T2 has much less overhead for achieving a given SPL than most cheap/modest dynamic amplifiers. Dynamic headphone sensitivities are spec'd relative to a milli-Watt (typically 0.18 - 0.54 Volts) whereas Stax headphones are spec'd relative to 100 Volts.

 

[Chefguru]

I've never understood why We have to use power plants to drive headphones. Anyway...today, after many years in this hobby, i received my first electrostatic headphone: the sr-009

It's surprising, but even on a decent amp, I've found the 007 and CRBN can gets serious bass distortion at 85db. It feels like both of these need a KGSSHV ( and probably carbon) level amp to operate correctly.
009 and lambdas are easier but the 3d effect of them and control over the highs is very noticeable - it's not like with dynamic headphones where the change is subtle.
x9000 I only like with one very particular amp haha

 

[mulveling]

It's surprising, but even on a decent amp, I've found the 007 and CRBN can gets serious bass distortion at 85db. It feels like both of these need a KGSSHV ( and probably carbon) level amp to operate correctly.

That surprised me at first - even 009 struggled on the Stax amps at louder volumes. Doesn't surprise me now; I'm well used to it. L700 seems about the same efficiency/sensitivity as 009, but somehow the L700 seems significantly easier to drive. For example, I have hev90-balanced "clone" that struggles a bit on 009 but handles L700 just fine.

A KGSSHV will handle the 007, or any headphone, no problem. Great amps; I'm a big fan. I'm partial to my old ~2010 build with IXYS parts (@ 500V) and the onboard heatsinks (not great heat dissipation - needs a well ventilated chassis) because it sounds the most neutral to me, but any KGSShv is more than powerful enough for any reasonable listening level. A Carbon won't give you any meaningful power beyond that, and quite honestly I think I prefer my old KGSSHV to the one I had (more neutral voicing). I remember the early design claims on Carbon was to match better with 009 - yeah, it didn't work out that way - quite the opposite, in fact.

You don't run into problems with dynamic headphones until you do something very silly - usually involving OTL tube amps with low impedance headphones. The Sony R10 are particularly easy to run into trouble this way, haha. Some of the planars are very inefficient too - I guess that's a thing as well.