The Stax Thread III
Honestly, 007 is the most refined sounding Omega out of all. Maybe It's a bit too refined, too in control and that's why it sounds dull for some. It doesn't deliver any excitement & euphoria. 009 sacrifices refinement(refiness?) for wider soundstage & faster decay. 009's treble can get out of control, getting bright even without the source calling for it. 009's bass is so fast that it can't deliver bass anymore. 009S fixes these issues to an extent but is not enough.
I have ES1A, 007mkII(heavily modded) and 009S, all three and been comparing them since 2 months. I mostly listen to classical music(contemporary stuff) and IDM. I use mostly 009S and ES1A, because they sound more open and offer more euphoric experience however when I compare them to 007, I always end up thinking that 007 is a better designed/engineered headphone. It is less faulty and balanced in general: goes never out of control in any frequency range, soundstage is better controlled etc etc.
I have ES1A, 007mkII(heavily modded) and 009S, all three and been comparing them since 2 months. I mostly listen to classical music(contemporary stuff) and IDM. I use mostly 009S and ES1A, because they sound more open and offer more euphoric experience however when I compare them to 007, I always end up thinking that 007 is a better designed/engineered headphone. It is less faulty and balanced in general: goes never out of control in any frequency range, soundstage is better controlled etc etc.
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If a 007 is amplified correctly it is anything but dull. It may not be as bright as some of the other Stax offerings (which many criticise as sounding overly bright) but it definitely isn’t “dull”.
Compared to “dark” sounding headphones like the Audeze LCD-4z my 007 mk2s are a world away sounding far “brighter” and clearer.
I think it is probable that people are hearing the 007s from a number of Stax amplifiers which often cannot provide the current necessary to bring out the top frequencies and thus make them sound “dull” in comparison to the other Stax offerings which are a) inherently brighter and b) easier to drive (hence “brighter” still).
The importance of adequate amplification for the 007s cannot be highlighted enough.
bigjako
100+ Head-Fier
I've been up to a few experiments with my Staxen lately - I'll post highlights below but won't go into a lot of detail on either point because I think it's too early to fully explain what I'm hearing.
CCS-Modding my 006t
Thanks to Dominik I got the CCS parts shipped to LA and had my local amp guy (Mike Check) install it into my 006t. At first, I was concerned something was off with it - some songs sounded worse than before but it was hard to pinpoint. As JimL said:
ES Labs 404 Sigma
I bought this from ES Labs. When I first got it, like an idiot, I just naturally put the headphones on with the thicker part in the back. I found that the sound was thin and diffuse and only realized as I was listening to some left-right balance checks that I had them on backwards. Two days of listening to them backwards. Anyways, now that they're right-way around, they sound a lot better, but they are still quite diffuse. No sub-bass and the treble is rolled off, but the mids are quite clean and the vocals come through. Upper bass/lower mids is where I think these differ from the stock Stax sound. They are like Stax wrapped in a warm woolen blanket. They're like a cross between Stax and Nighthawks. But they are still Stax and the high end comes through, it's just more muted relative to the standard presentation. I can't say these are all rounders, I think to be honest it was a novelty for me to try it, but they really work well with acoustic and jazz and classical. I just don't listen to those as often as rock so these are special-use kinda things. ES labs takes an old 404 driver and puts them into their own 3D printed cups, so my experience is not the same as an actual Sigma.
Separately, I've been experimenting with sorbothane squares on my Stax and I can say that the sorbothane had the greatest impact on these Sigmas, maybe because they have some much more vibration possibilities with these massive plastic cups/vestibules.
BF2 vs D90
I have been loving my 006 with my BF2, but one of the first things that I loved with Stax was how well the high end was. It totally got me away from dynamic and planars and made me actually seek out songs that featured the treble . I think Stax are so capable of delivering the sparkle, shimmer and air up there - but I was worried I was tubing them too much with both the BF2 and the 006 and maybe not letting the ear speakers open themselves up. So I kept my eye out for a D90, as the mid-fi polar opposite of the BF2, so I could compare them. My plan was to trial the D90, not hear a difference, and sell it on after having the chance to listen to it. After a day of listening (only a day), I'm surprised to say that I prefer the D90 with the Stax (mainly on the L300LE). The best way I can explain it is that if you imagine the music as peaks and valleys, there is more of a difference in distance between those peaks and valleys with the D90, there's a wider delta between the floor and the ceiling, and that gives a more holographic/3D stage, where I can more clearly separate sounds. Now, when I go back to the BF2 it feels slightly less dynamic. It's not major, and it took me half an hour to begin to identify the difference - but it's clearly there for me now, I can't unhear the diff.
I suspect that if I used a solid state amp, that the BF2 would work better with it. I just don't currently have a SS to try it on, so I'm <gasp> considering selling the BF2 until I save up for a Carbon.
CCS-Modding my 006t
Thanks to Dominik I got the CCS parts shipped to LA and had my local amp guy (Mike Check) install it into my 006t. At first, I was concerned something was off with it - some songs sounded worse than before but it was hard to pinpoint. As JimL said:
It runs a lot hotter now, but I think what I was hearing was even less distortion, and the microdetail artifacts now came out of it more clearly. I think it may sound less tubey now, or it's compensated for the tube smoothing things over. I've settled in with it and will be able to compare it to a Bottlehead Stat in a couple weeks.
ES Labs 404 Sigma
I bought this from ES Labs. When I first got it, like an idiot, I just naturally put the headphones on with the thicker part in the back. I found that the sound was thin and diffuse and only realized as I was listening to some left-right balance checks that I had them on backwards. Two days of listening to them backwards. Anyways, now that they're right-way around, they sound a lot better, but they are still quite diffuse. No sub-bass and the treble is rolled off, but the mids are quite clean and the vocals come through. Upper bass/lower mids is where I think these differ from the stock Stax sound. They are like Stax wrapped in a warm woolen blanket. They're like a cross between Stax and Nighthawks. But they are still Stax and the high end comes through, it's just more muted relative to the standard presentation. I can't say these are all rounders, I think to be honest it was a novelty for me to try it, but they really work well with acoustic and jazz and classical. I just don't listen to those as often as rock so these are special-use kinda things. ES labs takes an old 404 driver and puts them into their own 3D printed cups, so my experience is not the same as an actual Sigma.
Separately, I've been experimenting with sorbothane squares on my Stax and I can say that the sorbothane had the greatest impact on these Sigmas, maybe because they have some much more vibration possibilities with these massive plastic cups/vestibules.
BF2 vs D90
I have been loving my 006 with my BF2, but one of the first things that I loved with Stax was how well the high end was. It totally got me away from dynamic and planars and made me actually seek out songs that featured the treble . I think Stax are so capable of delivering the sparkle, shimmer and air up there - but I was worried I was tubing them too much with both the BF2 and the 006 and maybe not letting the ear speakers open themselves up. So I kept my eye out for a D90, as the mid-fi polar opposite of the BF2, so I could compare them. My plan was to trial the D90, not hear a difference, and sell it on after having the chance to listen to it. After a day of listening (only a day), I'm surprised to say that I prefer the D90 with the Stax (mainly on the L300LE). The best way I can explain it is that if you imagine the music as peaks and valleys, there is more of a difference in distance between those peaks and valleys with the D90, there's a wider delta between the floor and the ceiling, and that gives a more holographic/3D stage, where I can more clearly separate sounds. Now, when I go back to the BF2 it feels slightly less dynamic. It's not major, and it took me half an hour to begin to identify the difference - but it's clearly there for me now, I can't unhear the diff.
I suspect that if I used a solid state amp, that the BF2 would work better with it. I just don't currently have a SS to try it on, so I'm <gasp> considering selling the BF2 until I save up for a Carbon.
That's so true, in my opinion as an ex-727 owner, most STAX amp are overprice with performance which doesn't match its price at all. I sometime wish DIY people will just commercialize high-end electrostatic amp like how people did with normal dynamic amps, just imagine what if Mjölnir Audio or head-amp start mass producing BHSE & KGSSHV Carbon and distribute it worldwide with big store, the price will drop and more people with have better experience with electrostatic headphone which might even have a positive effect to encourage STAX to produce something even better may be a better headphone to match those amp like our long waited SR011 Omega3.
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number1sixerfan
Headphoneus Supremus
I would have to disagree greatly with almost all of this (and that's ok, that's a part of the hobby
). I'm not sure how you define "refinement", but when I refer to it, I mean subtle improvements in clarity, resolution and technical ability. Outside of bass (quantity, not quality), the 009 takes everything the 007 does and does it 'better'. The 009 is far more resolving and has greater clarity and detail than the 007--it is just technically better all around no doubt. Where I do agree is that the treble can definitely get out of hand on certain tracks and definitely with an already bright or clinical source. That's its main weakness.The 007 is also not dull or boring whatsoever--but I am strictly talking the MK1 and maybe that's where the gap is. The 007 is one of the most incredibly balanced headphones I've ever heard. All of the liveliness and speed of the stats in general, but with no brightness whatsoever. Sound is a bit thicker and warmer, but I wouldn't describe it as dark (can understand this a bit more compared to brighter cans though) or dull at all. And especially not with how lively the bass is (although it could be slightly tighter). It's only real weakness is not being as resolving as the 009, TC, Susvara etc. It's one step below refinement wise to all of those, but not by far--which is essentially my assessment of the Utopia's placement as well.
All that said, can understand why some would prefer one over the other.
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Swann36
New Head-Fier
Hello all, I have read quite a lot of this thread over the last couple of weeks from start to around page 300 ish .. then did searches for the L300 LEs & 353X but didn't find them discussed much unless i've missed a thread somehow ? so now i've jumped here to get some opinions of what i have as a set up ... i must admit i'm rather nervous of the response as my reading seems all about the SR 007s & SR 009s and very expensive energisers with little time / comments given to the "lesser" stax from what i've seen.
Stax L300 Limited Editions and Stax 353XB (the matching limited edition energiser) i also have a set of Stax SR-X Mk3s that Birgir modded to run at pro bias to my ears these 2 give the best hp listening i have experienced ... the full set up currently is Musical Fidelity A5 CDP via analogue outs to a Benchamrk Dac1 HDR doing duty as a pre (set to fixed output) into the 353 via the balanced XLRs ... i will add that i suffer from tinnitus in my right ear as well as some hearing loss in that ear so the ability to have a "higher volume" into the right ear allows me to balance very effectively to get a good stereo sound.
Previously i have used in the same set up as far as the BenchMark Dac1 HDR and then used that as the headamp into MrSpeakers Ethers, Audioquest Nighthawks and Ultrasone Edition 8s ...i do at times stream into the BM from spotify.. i've put these 3 in order of my preference.
I should add that i also have used the non stax hps with the JDS Labs EL Stack (Dac & Amp combo) as well as the BM ... the BM is better to my ears although the JDS Labs set up was good.
I do find the L300 LEs more comfortable than the SR-X Mk3s perhaps as they are over ear rather than on ear so they are my main preference between the 2
Thoughts appreciated ...please be gentle on a newbie here my lack of technical knowledge about this kit makes me feel full of trepidation putting my head above the parapet to actually post .... having said that i'm keen to learn
Oh music is very often jazz both vocal and instrumental, sinatra, some classical piano based, some bowie, dire straits type pop and some opera if that helps give a feel for my taste
Stax L300 Limited Editions and Stax 353XB (the matching limited edition energiser) i also have a set of Stax SR-X Mk3s that Birgir modded to run at pro bias to my ears these 2 give the best hp listening i have experienced ... the full set up currently is Musical Fidelity A5 CDP via analogue outs to a Benchamrk Dac1 HDR doing duty as a pre (set to fixed output) into the 353 via the balanced XLRs ... i will add that i suffer from tinnitus in my right ear as well as some hearing loss in that ear so the ability to have a "higher volume" into the right ear allows me to balance very effectively to get a good stereo sound.
Previously i have used in the same set up as far as the BenchMark Dac1 HDR and then used that as the headamp into MrSpeakers Ethers, Audioquest Nighthawks and Ultrasone Edition 8s ...i do at times stream into the BM from spotify.. i've put these 3 in order of my preference.
I should add that i also have used the non stax hps with the JDS Labs EL Stack (Dac & Amp combo) as well as the BM ... the BM is better to my ears although the JDS Labs set up was good.
I do find the L300 LEs more comfortable than the SR-X Mk3s perhaps as they are over ear rather than on ear so they are my main preference between the 2
Thoughts appreciated ...please be gentle on a newbie here my lack of technical knowledge about this kit makes me feel full of trepidation putting my head above the parapet to actually post .... having said that i'm keen to learn
Oh music is very often jazz both vocal and instrumental, sinatra, some classical piano based, some bowie, dire straits type pop and some opera if that helps give a feel for my taste
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Welcome to the club and enjoy yourself. Birgir’s modifications on amps and speakers alike are exquisite by the way, I have a modified amp myself and couldn’t be happier.
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DesignTaylor
100+ Head-Fier
I think the L300 LTD are fantastic and great value for the dollar. If you want to increase comfort you can purchase the L700 earpads which are much nicer. If the cheap L300 plastic headband ever gives you trouble that is also upgradable to the L700 metal version.
buzzlulu
Headphoneus Supremus
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I have the L300LE/353XBK combo however I mostly run it on a Birgir Carbon (along with my 009S).
Other than comfort do the L700 pads change the sound of the L300LE?
Other than comfort do the L700 pads change the sound of the L300LE?
bigjako
100+ Head-Fier
I use an L300 LE on a modded 006t and to me, it’s my own personal TOTL experience. Detailed and punchy. Sometimes I will run the NB Lambdas, which give more of a sweet experience, but missing some of the fine grained details. I can’t pick my favorite between the two, but the L300 LE gives much more of the details and slams harder. I will likely get one of the 007 (too planar-like!), 009 (too expensive!) or the ES1a (too ???!) but that will also require spending a couple grand on a new energizer so I’m not in a rush and enjoy Lambda-land.
Enjoy yours and wait for the shows to happen again before diving into The 00’s.
Enjoy yours and wait for the shows to happen again before diving into The 00’s.
L300 has it's own dedicated thread probably that's why this thread is focused on 007/009 and alternatives more. 353X is a great amp, you don't need a huge bulky amp for L300LE or SRX mk3 pro to make them shine. Does SRX mk3 pro(with SRX mk3 Normal Bias drivers) sound more detailed than L300LE to you? I've heard that Mk3 pro's are one of the most detailed sounding headphones Stax ever put out.
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L300 thread with a lot of discussion of the LE in the 2nd half of all pages, primarily about pad differences. May be new toy syndrome, but having just acquired the regular L300 I'm shocked how much I like it compared to the SR-007MKII, especially given the price difference. The L300 is just so engaging, exciting, with a lot of detail and musicality, especially on EDM. The presentation is just so different from my other headphones. It's my new favorite fun headphone, and after some pad swapping to my ears, thicker pads are far more comfortable but eliminate the magic I'm getting out of them.
chocolates
100+ Head-Fier
this one is interesting to me - i've heard a fair number of people comment on the BF2 vs the slew of well-measuring chi-fi dacs like topping, SMSL, etc. and quite a few people call out the BF2 as having much better macrodynamics. i'm not too sure myself since i currently only have the BF2 on hand but i thought it was interesting you had a different experience (not that it's wrong or anything!)
incidentally, where did you put the sorbothane on your sigma?
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