The Stax Thread III

[elton7033]

My opinion again, no numbers whatsoever to back it up but, I certainly hope it's not Edifier who asked Stax to jack up their prices for the products that came after the 009. I recall the 009S was ~30% more expensive than what I paid for the 009 at launch and basically face severe competition. I recall some of this was to alleviate a bit the issue with price distortion between Japan and US / EU markets and I would not be surprised sales in Japan haven't been that good in past couple of years, forcing a price adjustment.

arnaud

the msrp for the SR009 in us market have started at 5200usd back when it launch, the 009S is 4325usd now. in japan I recall buying my pair a bit more expensive than the msrp in tereon around 400000yen I think, but I need to double check if I still have the receipt after so many year, however, the price for SR009 in japan after the msrp being change have been very stable for the last 2 years. I agree there are a different between US and JP market price and this should not have been happened, even focal utopia are same price everywhere. This proof until today Stax are still in their 70s business mind when comes to controlling authorized retailer.

I totally agree on the recent new product are overprice especially with what the are delivering in terms of the SQ and with the price they are asking for. Their T8000 I was expecting something at least like a KGST...not a improved 727 with modern tube output stage and empty slot on the back panel which until now no info what so ever its for lol

 

[chocolates]

not many reviews on the t8000, but it sure looks good at least

 

[catscratch]

Looking at a 2001 Stereophile review of the 007 with the 717 and 007t, they claim prices of $4030 for the headphones, $2875 for the 717, and $2945 for the 007t. I got into audio a few years after that and certainly don't remember what the prices were back then, but when you factor in inflation, aren't today's launch prices cheaper? Granted consumers probably have less purchasing power today and certainly in light of the pandemic, and obviously prices will fall over time, but a Stax flagship coming in at over $5k actually wouldn't be out of line considering inflation.

Not that I'm defending this. The value proposition of high-end headphones... is basically none. And given Stax's recent releases I'm kinda skeptical to begin with. I guess we'll see.

 

[6PANDEMONIUM6]

If the price delta between the HV and Carbon were $1000, there's no question which one I would choose. I bought my HV (full sized Sanyo version) for $1900, and the lowest price I have seen recently for a Carbon is $3600. To some that's a drop in the bucket, but it's still nearly a 100% jump in price. As I said before, if the ultimate goal is to get the Carbon, there's merit to just wait and save up.

I haven't compared a HV with a Carbon, but given the topology and components used I'd expect everything is taken up a notch (or two). Supposedly it has the widest soundstage and the best bass performance of any amp (except maybe the T2).

FWIW, there was/is a BHSE posted recently for $4200. That's personally the route I would go. Tubes just have that special magic absent in SS, plus you can roll tubes to change the sound, plus it's just plain eye porn.

Mine? I sold it for about that much.

 

[6PANDEMONIUM6]

The bottom line is that if you're an Omega guy you're going to need big power. So probably a specialty product like the BHSE or a speaker amp with an adapter. However, I would never reccomend that lambda guys spend that much on an amp because they just don't benefit from it. Lambdas need clean power but they don't need much power. If you're only ever going to listen to lambdas something like the Carbon is totally overkill in my honest opinion. One of the Stax driver units will be just fine.

As for whether electrostatic setups are overpriced. I actually think that they're fairly priced for the level of performance that they give. A top of the line planar will run you about $3K and then you'll still need a hefty amplifier to run them on. I would much rather spend that amount of money on an estat setup that will have better clarity and detail retrieval.

 

[chocolates]

yep, totally agreed. according to some people susvara won't even sound proper out of anything less than a proper speaker amplifier, so that package together is about the same as brand new BHSE+SR009S

 

[Aurosonic]

I implemented convolution equalization in Roon for my SR-007's with great results. For anyone that wants to try it out with their O2 MK1's, here's the link for the .wav files needed to do it. It's simple, free, and there's profiles for just about every headphone out there. This equalization attempts to tune headphone frequency response closer to a Harman target curve. Some people don't like this response, so it's not for everyone.

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/oratory1990/harman_over-ear_2018/Stax SR-007

With the filter in place the voicing is leaner. There's less mid-bass and vocals have slightly less body. Bass is just as deep and impactful. Soundstage is deeper and slightly wider. Centered instruments and vocals sound more distant. Overall sound is more neutral, spacious, and speaker-like. Without equalization is maybe more “fun” sounding with a warmer and more intimate presentation.

Overall I am quite impressed with the difference, and will continue using it. I have tried DSP in the past (crossfeed, parametric EQ, OOYH) and always reverted back to original, so I'm pleased to find something I actually like.

 

[elton7033]

If the price delta between the HV and Carbon were $1000, there's no question which one I would choose. I bought my HV (full sized Sanyo version) for $1900, and the lowest price I have seen recently for a Carbon is $3600. To some that's a drop in the bucket, but it's still nearly a 100% jump in price. As I said before, if the ultimate goal is to get the Carbon, there's merit to just wait and save up.

I haven't compared a HV with a Carbon, but given the topology and components used I'd expect everything is taken up a notch (or two). Supposedly it has the widest soundstage and the best bass performance of any amp (except maybe the T2).

FWIW, there was/is a BHSE posted recently for $4200. That's personally the route I would go. Tubes just have that special magic absent in SS, plus you can roll tubes to change the sound, plus it's just plain eye porn.

I used to have the KGSShv, Headamp BHSE and now the Mjölnir Audio KGSShv Carbon, both 3 amps are totally different beast, however, even the hv is a very good amp giving its speed and power, it did a great job with the 009(better than T8000) but BHSE is better with 007.

The Carbon is better than the BHSE in terms of soundstage, bass, neutrality and resolution so its basically more monitor sound but the BHSE is coloured in a good way which can be more appealing to people who like smoothness where it retain a good balance between resolution and tube warmth.

Although they share the same name the sound signature of the normal hv and Carbon is actually quite different as the SiC FET in carbon simulates tubes triodes operation where the normal hv uses a traditional SS output.

 

[elton7033]

not many reviews on the t8000, but it sure looks good at least

that's a thread in headcase.
https://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/13002-stax-srm-t8000/
i tried it in KJ West one in London back in 2018 and I didn't like it as well. Its like a better version of the 727 with more bass and detail a bit more warmth with the tube final stage but that's all. For 4X the price of the 727 I rather get the woo audio WES if I really like rolling tube.

 

[kzs70]

I implemented convolution equalization in Roon for my SR-007's with great results. For anyone that wants to try it out with their O2 MK1's, here's the link for the .wav files needed to do it. It's simple, free, and there's profiles for just about every headphone out there. This equalization attempts to tune headphone frequency response closer to a Harman target curve. Some people don't like this response, so it's not for everyone.

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/oratory1990/harman_over-ear_2018/Stax SR-007

Thanks for the link, I will try it with my SR-009.

 

[Aurosonic]

Thanks for the link, I will try it with my SR-009.

You're welcome. Remember that link is for the SR-007 MK1 only, so you have to search for the appropriate SR-009 profile.

 

[kzs70]

You're welcome. Remember that link is for the SR-007 MK1 only, so you have to search for the appropriate SR-009 profile.

Yes I have found the one for the SR-009 too, will try it out later tonight

 

[Aurosonic]

Yes I have found the one for the SR-009 too, will try it out later tonight

Be sure to post your impressions. I'm curious as to how the 009 will respond. I believe I like the results with the 007 because I have a rather warm sounding amp. Equalization made things more neutral. The 009 is already closer to neutral, so equalization may not suit it as well.

 

[Aurosonic]

I used to have the KGSShv, Headamp BHSE and now the Mjölnir Audio KGSShv Carbon, both 3 amps are totally different beast, however, even the hv is a very good amp giving its speed and power, it did a great job with the 009(better than T8000) but BHSE is better with 007.

The Carbon is better than the BHSE in terms of soundstage, bass, neutrality and resolution so its basically more monitor sound but the BHSE is coloured in a good way which can be more appealing to people who like smoothness where it retain a good balance between resolution and tube warmth.

Although they share the same name the sound signature of the normal hv and Carbon is actually quite different as the SiC FET in carbon simulates tubes triodes operation where the normal hv uses a traditional SS output.

Thanks for the comparison. Both the Carbon and BHSE are amazing amps. My HV is perhaps too warm sounding for the SR-007, but it's enjoyable nontheless.

 

[Tugbars]

@kzs70

https://www.dropbox.com/s/61srehjyaltd7w0/Stax SR-009S.pdf?dl=0
SR009S GRAS measurements and harman EQ presets

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g8qs38z47gsharg/Stax SR-009 (o7).pdf?dl=0
same for 009.

I must say that I don't agree with what Harman curve suggests for high treble and bass. That's okay, also it's noted on the document:

Adjust gain of band 1 to preference (subbass)
Adjust gain of band 2 to preference (bass)
etc.You can adjust these presets until it fits to your taste.