True but also depends what you are using now. When I asked Birgir at mjolnir audio for support in choosing a suitable amp he told me that the modifications he made to the 717 he sold me put it on a par with the kgsshv and to upgrade I would have to go for a carbon. Honestly it sounds so good I am happy to wait and go straight to the carbon when the time comes.
I can concur that it has been mentioned by KG and Spritzer that the 717 is pretty much a commerical KGSS. But the KGSS is a cost no object 717 with better components and a proper regulated power supply. The HV further improves on the KGSS with current delivery and control. Knowing Spritzer he would have recapped all the capacitor and did other tweaks so the effect of the better regulated power supply would be a lot less noticed.
bigjako
100+ Head-Fier
Since there's been so much discussion lately about the KGSSHV vs the KGSSHV Carbon, and the general consensus is that there's a huge leap between the two but I'm hoping to hear a little bit more about the differences between them. Is it just a mater of "more" or is there qualitative differences as well? I use an L300 LE, not a 007 or 009 (at least for the foreseeable future) and am considering getting a KGSSHV. I'm not a 'money's no object' kinda guy, and am more focused on bang for my buck - so the question is really what am I giving up by spending $1k less for a KGSSHV vs a Carbon (I am going by recent used sales, I understand the retail delta is much greater).
I have an SRM-T1S bought from Japan that is giving off lemon vibes to me (twice had to take it in for repairs in the last month) and I'm coming into a work bonus next month so am seriously considering my options now. I think $6k on an amp is a bridge too far but $1800-2800 seems reasonable to me (last year I could not have comprehended that statement).
I have an SRM-T1S bought from Japan that is giving off lemon vibes to me (twice had to take it in for repairs in the last month) and I'm coming into a work bonus next month so am seriously considering my options now. I think $6k on an amp is a bridge too far but $1800-2800 seems reasonable to me (last year I could not have comprehended that statement).
Aurosonic
100+ Head-Fier
If the price delta between the HV and Carbon were $1000, there's no question which one I would choose. I bought my HV (full sized Sanyo version) for $1900, and the lowest price I have seen recently for a Carbon is $3600. To some that's a drop in the bucket, but it's still nearly a 100% jump in price. As I said before, if the ultimate goal is to get the Carbon, there's merit to just wait and save up.
I haven't compared a HV with a Carbon, but given the topology and components used I'd expect everything is taken up a notch (or two). Supposedly it has the widest soundstage and the best bass performance of any amp (except maybe the T2).
FWIW, there was/is a BHSE posted recently for $4200. That's personally the route I would go. Tubes just have that special magic absent in SS, plus you can roll tubes to change the sound, plus it's just plain eye porn.
I haven't compared a HV with a Carbon, but given the topology and components used I'd expect everything is taken up a notch (or two). Supposedly it has the widest soundstage and the best bass performance of any amp (except maybe the T2).
FWIW, there was/is a BHSE posted recently for $4200. That's personally the route I would go. Tubes just have that special magic absent in SS, plus you can roll tubes to change the sound, plus it's just plain eye porn.
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chocolates
100+ Head-Fier
i'm currently saving up for a BHSE, mostly because of the eye porn
I can concur (as I have written elsewhere) that my 007/modded717 combo totally outclassed the Audeze lcd-4z driven straight from my (then) chord hugo2 DAC (upgraded to the HTT2 as of yesterday evening
).If the carbon beats this then it will be my end game
There still non -believer out their that still think their planar/dynamic is a better setup and argue that the cost of the electrostatic setup is not worth the financial trouble/headache.
Not true, I still think a 007 with a decent energizer like the KGSSHV or carbon is same if not cheaper than a crazy setup like cheap fi man Susvara and amp combo.
Not true, I still think a 007 with a decent energizer like the KGSSHV or carbon is same if not cheaper than a crazy setup like cheap fi man Susvara and amp combo.
I don’t know what the top end planars from hifiman or abyss etc are capable of but I can assuredly tell you that in terms of detail retrieval and mid/high frequency transparency my current set up is leagues ahead of what I had before with easily comparable low frequency extension and quality (which is what planars are purportedly famous for) for the same price (but admittedly much lower portability). And that is also considering that there is an added amp between the DAC and the headphones themselves.
I had an electrostatic system before which for a number of reasons was gathering dust and I traded that in for the Audeze’s as this allowed me transportability but I knew something was missing when I later bought a Shure KSE 1200 as a high end portable system for travelling abroad and ended up listening to it at home over the Audeze’s even with the limitations the IEMs had compared to the circumaural open backed design of the Audeze’s.
you now need the carbon to complete your collection with your bhse lol
cant agree more than that, infect their fonder told currawong that their headphone need to be expensive in order to be applicate lol
A Stax L300 Limited + amp doesn't need to be expensive but it can fight on any top tier hifiman cans and still be about 1000usd less
and I believe normal people will prefer good stuff at affordable price rather than decent stuff being expensive.
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Aurosonic
100+ Head-Fier
Electrostats have been denigrated for their high cost. However, it has also become commonplace to see $4000+ dynamic and planar headphones. Prices on the SR-009 have dropped ($3700 vs $5000 at release), and the SR-007 can be had for around $1500. The cost of electrostatic amplification is generally higher, but there are options around $2000 that sound lovely.
oh god, I am stupid enough to pay 5000usd back in 2013 to buy my SR009 but at least I still use it today and i guess it worth every dollar lol
but my goto electrostatic is now the 007Mk1...
Is good to see edifier capital now allow Stax to lower the price of SR009 and make the launch price of SR009S cheaper than the original SR009. where Stax does not need to fear of bankruptcy again because of their high-end product development.
Infect the SR009 was never plan to be a production headphone, its call the C32 prototype back in 2009. The C32 first appear in fujiya avic headphone festival 2009 as a concept headphone to show case what Stax are truly capable of by developing MLER to celebrate 50years of SR headphone, but they have no plan to release due to the high cost(they mention 5 to 10times the cost of normal Stax headphone and even007 on the video as well) . But due to the prompt feedback from the Japanese audiophile community they at last decided to do their last bet, pricing it at somewhere around 300000-500000yen which left them not much profit for their company because of their size. This led to the SR009 being so hard to find in japan at least until fall 2014, you are lucky back then if you see a pair in stock. I wonder how other C headphone look like though.
⇓Stax C32 video back in 2010⇓
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I can’t imagine this is true but maybe some hearsay originated outside stax. You don’t develop a new electrode, housing and pad system, present it to the press and stop it there because you don’t have a product name lol. I’ve never ever heard this story before, we did an interview at stax HQ back in 2012, including the chief engineer in the video you linked and were never told this.
imo, this video was a pre-release teaser, a marketing exercise to let people know something was coming and that it was a price class above the flagship at the time. The video justifies the added cost from machining many parts, developping a new electrode that’s both rigid but still provides the least amount of acoustic resistance, refers to its manufacturing process to fuse 3 cart parts etc.
I can certainly imagine Stax being concerned about how the market would react to this, e.g., the pricing would be way above the omega. To put things in perspective, leaving aside the orpheus, expensive at the time meant 1500 usd HD800, not the 4-6kUSD planars and other flagships that would follow suit after the success of the SR009.
I guess Stax lead the way for this new pricing tier, be it good or bad for us overall. I tend to see it as a positive because that made large players like Focal pay attention and deliver excellent product like the Utopia afterwards but also feel the irony of the situation where there’s now a better bang for buck to have in speakers these days with direct sell companies who rely on internet buzz and don’t need to spend big efforts to develop whole new drivers etc.
My personal wild guess is that we’ve reached the limits of what most audiophiles will accept to pay for headphones and, without clear standout on the SQ / comfort etc, the next step is to bring that pricing down to win over more customers.
happy holidays everyone!
arnaud
that maybe true, that might be marketing but when i personally saw it back in 2010 fujiya show i was shock with the SQ of the C32, at that time I though the HD800 was the absolute benchmark for headphone SQ, i know is off topic but back then i will not believe 10years later HD800 is just another headphone and sells badly on the second hand market.
I guess different people believe in different stuff, edifer didn't bought Stax back in 2009 so i wont be surprise if they don't have the resource to mass produce SR009, and is true that I have been looking for a pair of new SR009 in Tokyo since 2012 and finally got it in 2013 somewhere near Akihabara and i buy it instant without even think twice. Such a good memory.
even in Jude video of the SR009S/T8000 he mentioned with edifier capital, Stax are now allow to do more and improve things like the chassis of their amp. So I totally convince that is edifier which helps to bring down SR009 manufacturing cost.
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My opinion again, no numbers whatsoever to back it up but, I certainly hope it's not Edifier who asked Stax to jack up their prices for the products that came after the 009. I recall the 009S was ~30% more expensive than what I paid for the 009 at launch and basically face severe competition. I recall some of this was to alleviate a bit the issue with price distortion between Japan and US / EU markets and I would not be surprised sales in Japan haven't been that good in past couple of years, forcing a price adjustment.
arnaud
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