[nogrot]

I suppose I'll just have to disagree. I don't feel that the show was ever a truly amazing show with well thought out subtexts and symbols. I feel that it was an attempt at that, but 90% of the bulk of the episodes totally failed at that overall feeling and depth.

I also disagree that it's the "best television show in years, many years" because Six Feet Under only ended in 2005. Now there's a show with a finale.

I feel the ending was a cop-out, a simple attempt to get people talking about it, and they did that. They could've ended it dozens of ways and not gotten the backlash they're receiving now, simply because they're too lazy to write a real ending. The entire show has always seemed to be really scatterbrained to me since the third season, so like I stated before, it doesn't suprise me that the ending would be the same way.


P.S. Am I the only one that feels that the character AJ simply became a tool for anti-Bush jabs this whole season? Everytime he's shown watching TV, it's Bush doing something goofy or speaking. Am I the only one annoyed when this sort of "art" is full of lame political statements?

 

[Zanth]

I just finished watching the finale and I feel it was really well done. I agree with mbriant 100% on this and there is no look from Meadow at all. I've watched it now 6 times (the last few minutes that is) and I did so frame by frame. Nothing beyond her hopping up over the curb to the sidewalk after an arduous parking fiasco.

In the end, I think it was what some had speculated at the end of last year...that life would simply go on, Tony would remain boss.

To me this fits so well with this sociopath, on his journey to self-discovery would simply choose to remain who he was, whether that was a fabrication, filling the shoes he felt he had to fill, or whether he was simply an entropic mess and anything he touched went to chaos in time.

The song was perfect. Don't stop believing. On some levels..."Journey" could refer to the journey we started on with the Soprano family, or it could refer to our hopes that Tony would reform or it could mean something else entirely, which is always the best type of ending, because it means fans can overanalyze and discuss until the end of time.

 

[Zanth]

After reading around the net, it seems some have come up with some interesting ideas.

Here is one email but without any verification at this point to back it up:

Quote:

"So here is what I found out. The guy at the bar is also credited as Nikki Leotardo. The same actor played him in the first part of season 6 during a brief sit down concerning the future of Vito. That wasn't that long ago. Apparently, he is the nephew of Phil. Phil's brother Nikki Senior was killed in 1976 in a car accident. Absolutely Genius!!!! David Chase is truly rewarding the true fans who pay attention to detail. So the point would have been that life continues and we may never know the end of the Sopranos. But if you pay attention to the history, you will find that all the answers lie in the characters in the restaurant. The trucker was the brother of the guy who was robbed by Christopher in Season 2. Remember the DVD players? The trucker had to identify the body. The boy scouts were in the train store and the brothas at the end were the ones who tried to kill Tony and only clipped him in the ear (was that season 2 or 3?). Absolutely incredible!!!! There were three people in the restaurant who had reason to kill Tony and then it just ends. This was Chase's way of proving that he will not escape his past. It will not go on forever despite that he would like it to "don't stop". Not the fans!!! Tony would like it to keep going but just as we have to say goodbye, so does he"

If this is true then wow super cool to have those characters all over the restaurant.

Yet here is the NYTimes guy saying:

Quote:

"That all sounds like urban (emerging) legend. The NY Times reviewer was on ESPN radio a couple hours ago and was asked about the Italian-looking guy at the counter and the 2 black guys, and if they appeared in earlier episodes. The NYT guy said no. The Italian-looking guy isn't even an actor. He works at a restaurant in the area and the Sopranos people asked him to do the scene because he looked the part. And Tony was supposed to have killed one of the black guys who tried to kill him way back when."

The best comment I've read though is that we the audience were the ones who were whacked if anyone, mainly because it was from our POV that we saw everything and finally in the restaurant, in fact we were watching Tony and then it fades to black. Perhaps the idea was to demonstrate the paranoia of a connected person and then the suddenness of death living that life.

 

[wafflesomd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solitary1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif And he's got the nerve to actually start name calling. Read the above slowly....

Oh wah, go cry about it.

 

[vibin247]

Unfortunately, I haven't been as dedicated to watching all 8 seasons of The Sopranos, but watching the final episode really piqued my interest in filling in what I haven't seen. Sure, when Meadow opens the door and the chime before the quick fade to black, I felt a little robbed (though I freaked a little and thought I lost satellite service for a bit), then I laughed, and then became quizzical about it. But I do agree with the notion that the ending was fitting, that it could only be sensible to reflect the uncertainty of one's life. An abrupt death would be beautifully painful to watch, but it would only satisfy for so long.

 

[blessingx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nogrot /img/forum/go_quote.gif I also disagree that it's the "best television show in years, many years" because Six Feet Under only ended in 2005. Now there's a show with a finale.

There's also as show that got a pass with the critics because of its cartoonish stereotypes were slightly 'edgy' (in subject and setting). Same with the American Beauty (besides Crash, the most overrated film in a decade). In fact not only was Six Feet Under not possible without The Sopranos, it skated on its HBO coattails.

 

[NightWoundsTime]

I didn't mind the ending, but I've never really been all that invested in The Sopranos. I've seen every episode but I'm not about to go questioning every misstep. It was always a decent show and I especially love the malapropisms. I always watched it with a bit of passivity, not even attempting to guess where a plot line was going. It's just not that type of show where everything is going to tie together neatly... much like life. That's fine by me.

 

[NightWoundsTime]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nogrot /img/forum/go_quote.gif P.S. Am I the only one that feels that the character AJ simply became a tool for anti-Bush jabs this whole season? Everytime he's shown watching TV, it's Bush doing something goofy or speaking. Am I the only one annoyed when this sort of "art" is full of lame political statements?

I deliver to an Italian-owned business where the owner sits at his counter and watches some cable finance channel all day, stock information and such. I have to basically pull him away from it to get my orders in. I asked him once and I've heard several others come in and ask if he's making any money in the market. Every time he goes into a huge rant about "That idiot Bush, as soon as he gets out of office our whole world will be better off and I'll be a rich man." Memorized answer, same every time it's asked. That as well is a lame, completely staged political statement. If a character in a show did that I would call it a big stretch, nobody really acts like that. But this guy does.

 

[wower]

I loved loved loved the ending! I have enjoyed reading the very insightful responses. This ending will be talked about for a long time. Absolute genius! I had dissected the ending beforehand and was expecting a tragic ending befitting someone who lived by the sword. I thought this was the way it had to be but I liked Tony and really didn't want to see him die. But Chase gave us something completely different. I can understand how those needing closure would hate this ending. I liked the ending because I can imagine The Sopranos continuing on.

 

[mbriant]

Re: AJ.

A couple of people have commented on AJ's character. I found his obsession with Bush/Iraq etc. to be very believable. Don't forget he was also agonizing about pollution, commercialism, and consumer waste as well ... so he wasn't simply fixated on Bush. When I was a kid, we had the cold war to worry about ... with emergency response signals regularly being broadcast on TV and "Duck and Cover" drills conducted at school ... but that was about it. Most of the news was sanitized and we were sheltered from much of the world's turmoil. Today is a different matter with 24 hour news stations continuously bombarding us with sensationalized horror stories and actual footage of not only the war on terror, but all sorts of apocalyptic scenarios from over-population to killer viruses to pedophiles to pollution. It's got to be pretty tough to be a kid these days and be exposed to such a glut of distressing news .... especially if you are already clinically depressed.

Last weekend I drove a good friend's 14 year old son, who I've known since birth, to his golf course. This kid is intelligent, athletic, popular, and has wanted for nothing during his life. Almost immediately after he got in the car, out of nowhere he asked me if I'd seen the movie "Children of Men", and when I said yes, he then asked if that sort of thing could actually happen. (For those who don't know, the movie's about a bleak future where mankind has become sterile) It was obvious that this was weighing heavy on his mind. This coming from a kid who was on his way to play golf at a private golf club. It's sad that a kid should even have to think about such things, but in today's society it's pretty much unavoidable. And the more intelligent the child is, the more likely this sort of thing is going to bother him.

I don't want to start a political discussion here, but my point is, perhaps some liberal writer is using AJ's character to express the current Hollywood political feeling, but that doesn't make the character any less believable. Many people share those feelings. In fact, IMO, AJ's depression and obsession with Bush/war/consumerism etc. was very believable and relevant.

 

[nfusion770]

I watched the ending 3 times last night- there is no "look" on Meadows face, so I prefer to believe that things continue on- a great, clever ending. I am sure the onion ring is a symbol of some sort- implying infinity? Things just go on?

I think it's almost anti artistic to think Chase brought several incidental characters into the last scene- the artistic part is to lead the audience with clue's, which is lost if they are so subtle only David Chase can follow them.

I think the ending leads to this kind of speculation, however. This is the kind of thing that leads people to search for things that are not there. There will be completely unfounded rumors about Chase's true intentions, which is likely the way he wanted it.

I thought the Six Feet Under Finale was fantastic (despite 2 or 3 sub par seasons). The last 10 minutes affected me like TV/ movies rarely can. I think the Sopranos ending is actually much more akin to The Wire. I know some people find it boring, but it's probably the most authentic show I have ever seen- there is never any true fulfillment, only half wins that leave a sour taste in your mouth. It took me about 5 minutes to realize just how satisfying the Sopranos ending was- it couldn't have been more perfect. Nothing ended with the Soprano's, but our window into their lives was closed- beautiful.

 

[mbriant]

Quote:

I thought the Six Feet Under Finale was fantastic .......... The last 10 minutes affected me like TV/ movies rarely can.

I agree. It was probably the most powerful season finale ever. SFU's subject matter lent itself to that particular ending and the writers took full advantage of it. It can be viewed more than once and still have the same strong impact as the first time you saw it. Not so with the Soppranos finale.

I've also re-watched the Soppranos ending once more and the restaurant scene a few times (and no, Meadow's making the face because of frustration over being late/parking .... we don't even see her enter the restaurant) and somthing I noticed is that the finale is only at it's best the first time. Once you've seen it and know what happens, it loses all the heart-thumping tension and uncertainty it had first time around. It's still an excellent ending to the series IMO, but unfortunately all of the edge-of-your-seat suspense is now gone....much like watching a re-run of a great Stanley Cup or Superbowl game. Then again, all along, a good part of the Sopprano's appeal was the suspense.

 

[nfusion770]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbriant /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree. It was probably the most powerful season finale ever. SFU's subject matter lent itself to that particular ending and the writers took full advantage of it. It can be viewed more than once and still have the same strong impact as the first time you saw it.

I agree. I'm not sure I've ever been more deeply affected by TV/movies, and it still has the same impact after several viewings.

I mis-stated my point above- there was a look, but it was a look of frustration about parking. Meadow isn't even in the restaurant when the scene ends.

 

[immtbiker]

The restauraunt is a real diner in NJ (like the one in Seinfeld, except there, they changed the name). They had such a turnout on Monday that they ran out of onion rings by 6pm

One thing that I really liked about the Sopranos, was the realism not just the sensationalism. Things like "difficulty getting the newspaper delivered into the driveway", geese/ducks, pissed off neighbors, therapists talking about privileged info at a dinner table, doing laundry, problems getting into a good college without flexing muscle, not-so-attractive wives/family and so on.

The neighborhoods in NY and NJ and the way of life (like hanging out on a main street in front of Satriales, which leaves them very exposed) are very true-to-life. I used to live in Brooklyn near Bath Ave. and this was exactly how it was. Remember the Teflon Don and his "social club" in Howard Beach? The fact that a Fed agent needs to go to their pork market to get a decent Italian sandwich. Stealing little things like copper wiring and tubing at a website because it yields an incredible amount of money but isn't normally sensational enough for the movies. Jim Kerr on 103.5 on the morning show (he must be pleased). Allowing Italian Americans like Frankie Vallie and Steve Buschini act for awhile on the show (a dream of theirs come true).

I loved the irony of, everytime someone they loved was in the hospital, they looked up at the heavens and asked how G-D could do this, 15 minutes after popping someone for not making payments.

You get the point.

 

[tjohnusa]

I loved the ending. I think some folks are such avid television watchers they excpect everything to be spelled out for them. I do a fair amount of reading so have to interpet things with my mind (some great special effects) To leave this ending open to your interpetation was brilliant. For me I think life just goes on.....