[raypin]

Mm...CanJam will debut in Shanghai later this year. It is impossible that Hifiman will not show all its wares, including the Shangrila, in China. Unlike Sennheiser HE 1 audition, there is no time limit to sample Hifiman equipment. Do attend that show to satisfy your curiosity.

As for the target market for the Shangrila or the HE 1: it is for those who are seeking the very, very best in headphone listening experience, cost no object or cost is a secondary concern.

I heard from a tweety bird that Elon Musk will soon have an HE 1. My question is: does this superhuman even have time to listen and enjoy? I also heard that he works even when he is asleep. Lol!

 

[bosiemoncrieff]

Broken in LA, broken in NY, is it ever *not* broken?

 

[Benny-x]

Mm...CanJam will debut in Shanghai later this year. It is impossible that Hifiman will not show all its wares, including the Shangrila, in China. Unlike Sennheiser HE 1 audition, there is no time limit to sample Hifiman equipment. Do attend that show to satisfy your curiosity.

As for the target market for the Shangrila or the HE 1: it is for those who are seeking the very, very best in headphone listening experience, cost no object or cost is a secondary concern.

I heard from a tweety bird that Elon Musk will soon have an HE 1. My question is: does this superhuman even have time to listen and enjoy? I also heard that he works even when he is asleep. Lol!

When I say "target market" I mean like geographic region. Yes, they're shooting for clients who see the cost as a secondary or tertiary concern, but I meant which geographic region they're expecting to have a sizeable client pool and are willing to pony up with their marketing and sales dollars to focus on.

So when Sennheiser rents a private room at a hotel in city A and rents a suite with sound damping, couches, and food and drinks in city B, it's clear that they're targetting and expecting higher client interest and possible sales in city B. Or better market acceptance and favourable media coverage. But, you get what I mean.

So, I wonder where is HiFiMAN's main focus? Mainland China? I don't know, but I just kinda wonder.

As for camjam Shanghai, I haven't heard anything about that. Thanks for the heads up, I'll try my best to be there.

 

[bosiemoncrieff]

Not clear what Fang's focus is. Design is schiit. Reliability is schiit. Value for dollar is schiit. Sennheiser, to their credit, does 6XX and 600 for like $200. I wish they'd bring back the baby orpheus. If they could make an e-stat for ~2-3k, they'd go for the jugular re HE1k, Susvara, Stax, Utopia. Perhaps even LCD-4. I would mention Sonoma but it's pretty dead on arrival, no?

 

[JimL11]

I listened to the Sonoma One at CanJam NYC. It's pretty good sounding but I view it as a BMW-level lifestyle plug-and-play system. All you need otherwise is a digital source, and it's incompatible with anything else.

 

[Sennheiser]

Well, I was at CanJam NYC, where they had the Shangri-La Sr. on silent display because...it was broken. One of the HFM persons at the table said, "Well, it's been shipped around a lot." OTOH, I would guess that the HE-1 has been shipped around just as much as the Shangri-La, and it was playing just fine in a quiet room off the main floor. HFM's legendary reliability strikes again - or something. Anecdotal, I know, but still...

To be fair here, Sennheiser actually has decided that it was worth investing in an HE-1 Orpheus for each different broad region we identified. So, while we have one HE-1 to show at CanJam NYC and SoCal, we have a different one to show at the High End show in Munich or CanJam London, etc. This way, each unit doesn't have far to journey despite the need to move them around often. Apart from our careful shipping packing, the HE-1 chassis itself is relatively tough, with the buttons and tubes retracting into the very dense and intentionally vibration-dampening marble, and the tubes well-protected during operation by the quartz vials from jostling or fingers. We also greatly appreciate the great respect and care observed in our guests at every convention, with most people treating the HE-1 as their own prized possession. We're not saying HiFiman doesn't take precautions, but Sennheiser does enjoy a great mix of reasons why our risk is limited. Still, anything can happen, and it's easy to imagine and sympathize with a representative's and all his guests' disappointment when events don't go as planned.

Mm..just a brief background, I did audition the Hifiman Shangrila during CanJam Singapore 2017, right before my audition of the HE 1. Unfortunately, the Shangrila was in the main floor and it was noisy as hell so I could not really listen and form an opinion, one way or another. The Sennheiser suite, on the other hand, was quiet as a church (helped me a lot).

That's just it: no HE 1 owner, even after a year of availability, was posting impressions, so I did.

THANK you for posting those impressions! It's not always easy to share personal observations with the world and strangers, even when those strangers share an interest and are part of the same community. You have performed this community as much a service as helped share the results of our work here at Sennheiser.
At conventions, our visitors ask (often while waiting for a turn for audition) "Does anyone actually buy the HE-1?" That question is far less common after an audition Many of the HE-1 owners are very private about their means and don't want to appear boastful about their acquisitions, and that may be part of why impressions of the HE-1 are rare. We often meet or create HE-1 owners at audio conventions, and to us, they are just as excited and giving with their impressions and appreciation as most visitors. To those like Raypin and other reviewers of Sennheiser products, it is indeed a gracious optional effort to share what they already know and reveal how they feel. Thank you again!

Yeah, I guess Sennheiser has their target market and client clearly in mind there, so they're putting marketing spend where it's needed.

I really do wonder what HiFiMAN's main market is? I haven't attended any shows in China, but I (no real reason to base it on) don't get the feeling they're going Sennheiser style there and booking private rooms off the floor for more qualified listening sessions for potential clients. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

To be fair again, HiFiman did build a private listening box for the Shangri-La at last year's High End show in Munich. Sennheiser does want to create the world's greatest headphones, and we want to do that by working as hard as we can and fostering new innovations, but we still have respect for everyone that respects and grows the Headphone community.

 

[bosiemoncrieff]

I listened to the Sonoma One at CanJam NYC. It's pretty good sounding but I view it as a BMW-level lifestyle plug-and-play system. All you need otherwise is a digital source, and it's incompatible with anything else.

As I listened, my conclusion was step backward from sr007/009, crippled by incompatibility with other components, mediocre dac, less than stellar comfort, and most important just no "killer feature." For 5k, you need a differentiator. Nada.

 

[astrostar59]

#1. I've explored a lot of computer-as-a-source front end combinations and I have found huge differences between the delivery of those "inadequate" FLAC files across the sources I've tried. Both using my own common library of tracks and others.
- This is the heart of why I asked the question. I too started out thinking computer audio was all the same and only accidentally discovered there was at least some variation in sound quality/presentation from one computer to another.
- Then later, I discovered that there is "better" and "worse", and then continued down the path of trying to consistently find "better".

#2. Why is Rob Watts name like gospel? I didn't say anything against him or his DAC, yet I get called out for "maybe knowing more than him"? What a joke. We've always got to be vigilant of when we're crossing into the "bull**** hysteria zone". Make note.
- Rob is fine to say as he does, and I'm not saying he's "wrong". I also have not even the slightest bit of experience with the DAVE. That doesn't mean my experience with different computer sources is wrong either.
- At this level of gear, maybe we are saying "I've paid enough not to have to think about everything". And maybe so. But, when you notice that much of a difference between a computer from end carrying the same data vs. a CD front end carrying the same data (unvompreunco music files yet to undergo D-A), then it just makes me myself wonder. And I do, so I thought I'd ask.

Fair enough. I was highlighting the point that not in all cases is it best to use HQ player to upsample everything. It depends on the DAC, how it implements it's filter, so many other aspects. I was quoting Rob as I read he stated feed the DAVE resident sample rate.
On WB Forum is a cluster of hard core HQ Player users who swear by converting to DSD in HQ player first, but again that depends hugely on the DAC and chip type / implementation.

Back to USB v CDP, that is another huge subject. I am beyond my CDPs I had now, that is a CEC belt drive CDP which was about 4K. But haven't gone back to check or try a better one since. I truly believe with some work you can get as good as a good CDP from a PC or Mac, or purpose build server. And the work getting there is worth it for the convenience IMO, even if it ends up the same level.

 

[wrathofkhan]

Apart from raypin whom I have had discussions with over an extended period are there others that can comment on the comparison between the HE 1 and the obvious contender the SR 009 + BHSE
From all reports I have amassed over the last 6 - 8 months it would be fair to say that the HE 1 is better than the nearest contender SR 009 + BHSE and that is in the bass area. I believe that from what I hear the HE 1 probably gives a slightly more fuller & lower bass which to me is very important. In the mid & top the feelings are generally very similar with maybe the SR 009 + BHSE being more intimate / musical.

I wish I could have a listen to the HE 1 but living in Perth, Western Australia, does not help in trying to get a demo as the nearest is Sydney which is a 5000 km away.

 

[Sennheiser]

Never say never, and hopefully some day we will be able to read about your personal HE-1 experience! We wish you good luck!

 

[raypin]

To be fair here, Sennheiser actually has decided that it was worth investing in an HE-1 Orpheus for each different broad region we identified. So, while we have one HE-1 to show at CanJam NYC and SoCal, we have a different one to show at the High End show in Munich or CanJam London, etc. This way, each unit doesn't have far to journey despite the need to move them around often. Apart from our careful shipping packing, the HE-1 chassis itself is relatively tough, with the buttons and tubes retracting into the very dense and intentionally vibration-dampening marble, and the tubes well-protected during operation by the quartz vials from jostling or fingers. We also greatly appreciate the great respect and care observed in our guests at every convention, with most people treating the HE-1 as their own prized possession. We're not saying HiFiman doesn't take precautions, but Sennheiser does enjoy a great mix of reasons why our risk is limited. Still, anything can happen, and it's easy to imagine and sympathize with a representative's and all his guests' disappointment when events don't go as planned.




THANK you for posting those impressions! It's not always easy to share personal observations with the world and strangers, even when those strangers share an interest and are part of the same community. You have performed this community as much a service as helped share the results of our work here at Sennheiser.
At conventions, our visitors ask (often while waiting for a turn for audition) "Does anyone actually buy the HE-1?" That question is far less common after an audition Many of the HE-1 owners are very private about their means and don't want to appear boastful about their acquisitions, and that may be part of why impressions of the HE-1 are rare. We often meet or create HE-1 owners at audio conventions, and to us, they are just as excited and giving with their impressions and appreciation as most visitors. To those like Raypin and other reviewers of Sennheiser products, it is indeed a gracious optional effort to share what they already know and reveal how they feel. Thank you again!




To be fair again, HiFiman did build a private listening box for the Shangri-La at last year's High End show in Munich. Sennheiser does want to create the world's greatest headphones, and we want to do that by working as hard as we can and fostering new innovations, but we still have respect for everyone that respects and grows the Headphone community.

Mm...can you settle a lingering and gnawing question? I ‘ve been told that the lifespan of the HE 1 tubes is 15,000 minutes or 250 hours. Another headfier (prospective owner I think) received information from Sennheiser concierge that the correct figure is approximately 2,000 hours. By my reckoning, I will be close to 200 hours of use by June or July of this year. Which is which? Thanks in advance.

 

[JimL11]

As I listened, my conclusion was step backward from sr007/009, crippled by incompatibility with other components, mediocre dac, less than stellar comfort, and most important just no "killer feature." For 5k, you need a differentiator. Nada.

Well, not to pull this thread even farther off-topic, but I basically agree with that. Would also mention that given the form factor of the amp/DAC, and the fact that the amp is single-ended, it cannot possibly have anywhere near the power of even a Stax desktop amp, otherwise it would burn your hand. I think it is directed at a different audience, namely someone who wants a compact all-in-one unit. Which is why I called it a lifestyle system. Something like Bang & Olufson.

 

[bosiemoncrieff]

KSE1500 is a more impressive product. Estat on the go? Now there’s a sales pitch.

 

[JimL11]

What is this legend of HiFiMAN's bad reliability?

I've owned 2 HiFiMAN planars and though I --really-- hate their craftsmanship; it is totally not up to par, not representative of the price paid, and not even representative of the manufacturing skill they have complete access to for a more than reasonable cost...

I have never had a single reliability issue. Both 'phones have always worked every time, never fell apart, cables have always connected and been clear sounding, you name it. In terms of what is defined as "reliable", they have both passed. And I'm not alone, as far as my memory goes.

For the most part, in my ~10 years of being in and around headphone audiophila and online, I don't have much recollection of a strong movement against HiFiMAN for bad reliability. In the few times I have heard of anyone having issues, HiFiMAN has been prompt with communication and warranty service. Which is what we ask for in those situations.

So, I'm not up to speed on that legend. Though man do I ever wish they'd get their **** straight with the build quality... Like why? It's really not hard and HiFiMAN isn't selling a bargain basement product or price. Why not just be like "alright, it's one of the last core issues, let's just clear that up and we're golden!"...

The reliability thing is internet gossip, I guess. Probably exacerbated by HiFiMan's level of craftsmanship. And I totally agree with you on the craftsmanship, or lack thereof. It's not as if Chinese can only build crappy stuff - any museum that has a display of Ming Chinese pottery or silks will demonstrate that's not true. It's that HFM apparently doesn't give a s..t if their stuff looks like it was made with recycled tin cans and cheap veneer. I've listened to the HE1000 V2 and it is one of the best headphones I've heard - but it doesn't look nearly as nice as it sounds.

 

[TraneTime]

I listened to the Orpheus 2 at the Sennheiser store in San Francisco on Saturday. It's by appointment only. No walk in's. The listening room is on the 2nd floor. It's a large room that's almost completely empty. They have the original Orpheus there to but it wasn't connected. It was there just for show. Besides myself there was only one other person in the room, a store employee named Miles. The sources were Tidal through an Apple laptop and a Clear Audio Ovation turntable. Each appointment is 30 minutes in length. I hadn't prepared any play lists for myself so I just selected tracks I familiar with. The first was Art Blakey "Live at Birdland". I don't use Tidal so I don't know what the resolution was but it sounded a little flat and lifeless. I next listened to a vinyl record, "Blue in Green" from "Kind of Blue" by Miles Davis. It sounded truly bad as the Orpheus is so resolving that it was picking up every flaw in the recording and in the pressing as well as needle drag through the grooves. That was to be expected though. High end headphones and vinyl are not particularly compatible unless it's very well recorded, mastered and pressed (re: Music Matters Jazz). I'm not a bass head but I did a bass test anyway with "Chameleon" from Herbie Hancock's "Headhunters". Sub bass is weak and, like "Live at Birdland", it sounded flat. The last track I listened to was from the Argentine band "Sera Una Noche". They only have released 2 albums but both are extremely well recorded. Now the Orpheus sounded like what you would expect. It was the most transparent sound I've ever heard from any headphone or speaker. It sounded absolutely live. I only heard the piano, I only heard the guitar, etc. It sounded completely realistic. I was just amazed.

As for the mechanical attributes of the amp, you press the button to turn the amp on and first the buttons slide out of the amp, then the tubes emerge and then the lid rises revealing the headphones, and it's all completely silent. The phones are a heavy but comfortable, a little like an LCD 2.

Would I buy one? That's a moot point since I can't afford it. But even if I could I can't justify spending 55 grand on a statement piece with all the hunger and misery in the world. Listening to the Orpheus 2 underlined an issue with ultra high end audio, the higher you go, the less music you can listen to. Only the best recorded music will make a high end system worth listening to. But with a mid-fi system you have much more music you can listen to and enjoy, which, as far as I'm concerned, is what it's all about. I still have to give Sennheiser a lot of credit. The Orpheus shows what's possible.