[donunus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevM2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Decided to get the hd600s and did some reading up on them. All of a sudden it said I needed an amp. I purchased some cheap 40 dollar amp. Then did more reading. Supposedly cheap amps didn't do any good with it. Seen the EF-1 on sale. Purchased that.

then something like a b22 amp for them next then a $2000 dac

 

[KevM2]

For those who have made the HD600 your main set of headphones, what was it about them that made you choose them above other phones?

 

[KevM2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just got equinox cables for my hd600s a few hours ago. Wow, these are great. They add midrange "CRUNCH" and detail and bass tightness. Notes are not as subdued as the stock cable, they now hit with more substance. I liked the hd600s with the stock cables but these make my hd600s more like high end speakers. Its the weight to notes that I feel it improves most

This is what I'm looking for to improve the sound. The sound is beautiful right now, but it seems that there are 'gaps' right now. Like a layer of sound is missing that is connecting everything. I heard the Equinox's really fill up the sound. Seems like the equinoxes will take the characteristics that I liked of both the HD600 and the HD650 cords. The 600's have more upper detail, while the 650's had a weight that made things such as horns sound really good. I can't wait until my pair arrives.

Now back on to the headphones themselves. I think people are best able to appreciate the HD-600s when they are just allowed to experience them and listen to the music instead of reading all the reviews. I read all the reviews of how wonderful and magical these headphones were and when I first put them on, I wasn't as enthralled as I was expected to be. The laid back sound isn't something that is immediately appreciated.

I will say that these aren't pornographic phones. They don't put all the detail in the front and hit you over the head with them in an attempt to get an immediate reaction. But they are headphones I can keep on my head all day without getting annoyed. They may not be the most detailed headphones or the most bass heavy headphones, but they have a great deal of balance and just have a beautiful, mellow sound that will keep them on your head. I think I'll keep these as my main headphones and get supplement headphones for when I want more specialized listening.

 

[donunus]

The gaps you speaks of will be lessened with the cable upgrade but will never go away. If you are talking about the same slight incoherence problem that i am speaking of... which my stax doesnt have by the way

The hd600s do more of the audiophile stuff correct than the basic stax I have though but coherence isn't one of those aspects

 

[KevM2]

I think what ultimately pushed me towards the Equinox cables is that I heard they add more soul to the music... More bite.

I love the sound from the HD600s right now, but the minor flaw I'm finding right now with my set-up is that it sort of sounds like I'm listening to an awesome concert behind a thin wall. It's like a thin layer of sound has been stripped through a politeness filter, so as not to offend, but then again, it's removed some of the energy away.

On the other hand, I also enjoy the somewhat gentle approach, because it makes a lot of songs that I couldn't stand before listenable because it removed some shrill screechiness of the highs. Ultimately, I just want a little more bite and a more filled in sound.

Well actually, after messing around with this equalizer, I'm finding I'm able to tune the sound to more of what I want it to be.

I still can't wait to receive the cords and see what they do to the music, especially since I can notice a very distinct change between using hd600 and hd650 cords.

Just curious, but what about the 600s make you choose them above other headphones?

 

[wavoman]

Kev --good choice on the EF-1. It was voiced for the Senn 600, and it works! This (with a quality DAC) is a fantastic combo, especially with an upgraded cable (I am using Zu with my 600 ... Zu had a return policy so you can audition it).

A Beta-22 won't improve this much -- I have tried. Better and cheaper is to upgrade the tube -- get a high-end 12AU7 for the EF-1.

Beta-22 beats the EF-1 on a lot of HPs (K701s, 600 ohm 880s, etc.), but the Senn 600 loves that solitary tube.

 

[KevM2]

Wow, this burn-in thing seems very real. Just putting them on today, they seem to have just transformed to another level. I always had a sort of complaint that it sounds like the sound is bouncing around in a tiny room. It sounded somewhat stuffy. There seems to be so much more 'pass-through' all of a sudden, as if the sound is no longer trapped. The sound no longer sounds as if its hitting against some styrofoam surface. Maybe this is the result of the amp or the headphones breaking in or both, but the sound is just much more natural all of a sudden.

 

[big-ban]

It's highly unlikely any headphone will magically transform overnight. I'm not exactly an avid believer of burn-in, at least not in any way to the extent many make it out to be. What must be the #1 overlooked reason for false assumptions regarding burn-in is the physical and mental state of the listener during the listening session. Are you stressed? Are you feeling well? What mood are you in? Are you conciously listening to the equipment or rather just enjoying music as a whole?
Also, there's two sorts of brain-burn-effects, long time and short time. Your ears will adapt to different signatures within minutes and your brain will learn to adapt to a certain signature as normal when exposed to it for longer periods of time. I initially found my W2002 trebly and thus a bit annoying, this is now totally gone and I'm loving it. And this is for sure not to be attributed to burn-in, I must be the n-th owner of those phones, they are well burned-in.
Just something to consider when talking about burn-in.

 

[Will2007]

Quote:

Originally Posted by big-ban /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's highly unlikely any headphone will magically transform overnight. I'm not exactly an avid believer of burn-in, at least not in any way to the extent many make it out to be. What must be the #1 overlooked reason for false assumptions regarding burn-in is the physical and mental state of the listener during the listening session. Are you stressed? Are you feeling well? What mood are you in? Are you conciously listening to the equipment or rather just enjoying music as a whole? Also, there's two sorts of brain-burn-effects, long time and short time. Your ears will adapt to different signatures within minutes and your brain will learn to adapt to a certain signature as normal when exposed to it for longer periods of time. I initially found my W2002 trebly and thus a bit annoying, this is now totally gone and I'm loving it. And this is for sure not to be attributed to burn-in, I must be the n-th owner of those phones, they are well burned-in. Just something to consider when talking about burn-in.

Good point. I'm pretty sure burn-in occurs between your ears, not in your headphones. Physical settling in of the components in your headphones couldn't have any audible effect. The changing over time has got to be some combination of variable factors you mention and/or simply getting used to the sound of the phones and adapting to it. Setting your phones down with pink noise for a weekend does nothing to acclimate the listener to the phones.

 

[big-ban]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will2007 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Good point. I'm pretty sure burn-in occurs between your ears, not in your headphones. Physical settling in of the components in your headphones couldn't have any audible effect. The changing over time has got to be some combination of variable factors you mention and/or simply getting used to the sound of the phones and adapting to it. Setting your phones down with pink noise for a weekend does nothing to acclimate the listener to the phones.

The most problematic thing about burn-in is that you're expecting to hear something. Reading about it on head-fi and seeing so many people confirm it will make you inevitably biased, even if you're trying to stay objective. After all, there might be SOME truth to it, you know

Your state of mind might be different without you conciously noticing it. You're paying more attention to HOW exactly everything sounds. If you're expecting to hear something, you focus your mind on that singular aspect alone and you'll find it to become a self-fullfilling prophecy.
I've always been pretty skeptical about this hobby, but I also appear to be not entirely immune to this. I've also fallen for my own mind playing tricks on me before, for example when I got my HA25D and found it to be a match made in heaven with the AD2000. In fact, the HA25D doesn't sound much different from other amps, that's what I found out later in a blind test after I came back to planet earth

It's also pretty obvious with the Frequency Response Measurements I recently did.

To get this posting back on topic, I don't think that equipment burn-in (if there is any, I've never really experienced it myself) happens so suddenly and noticably. There might be subtle changes over an extended period of time, but certainly not overnight.

 

[KevM2]

I have no doubt burn-in is real. I attribute some of the changes in sound to what I've been hearing. The sound has definitely opened up and become less harsh as compared to when I first got the headphones. It doesn't sound as its stuffy and bouncing around in a tiny room anymore.

However, I doubt that that's the sole factor that caused the change in sound I described. Most likely it was due to the fact that I was listening to the headphones right before going to sleep. Our sound sensitivity seems to be the highest before we sleep, especially when you lay down and just focus on the music.

On a slightly unrelated note, I was playing with an equalizer today and pushed the treble up to hear more of the upper detail. It was more engaging for a while, but it's also given me a much greater appreciation for the natural HD600 sound. A big headache started coming over me after an hour of listening until I turned the equalizer off.

These are my first pair of high quality headphones, so I'm still coming to terms with the effects all of the components have on each other, so some of my assessments will obviously be inaccurate. Please bear with me.

 

[donunus]

here we go again... ze old burn in debate

 

[orkney]

Until recently I owned both HD600s and 650s, both with the silver backing, both with stock cables, and I honestly found very little to distinguish them from one another. The 650s seemed a bit smoother through the treble and slightly lusher and more textured in the low mids and bass, but otherwise they sounded very similar to me through Cary and HR Max electronics. Properly amped, neither seemed particularly slower, more/less "veiled" or better balanced then the other. For me the choice would be between headband styles, clamping force and whether or not you're a fan of the faux-marble aesthetic.

Is there a general consensus on this thread that there are important differences between the 600 and 650 such that a listener can adore one and dislike the other? I ended up keeping the 65os because they seemed to perform slightly better in my systems, but it was pretty nearly a coin flip.

best,

o

 

[donunus]

gradofan2 also observed the same thing with the silver backed 650s and 600s. He might have said he couldn't even tell the difference between the two

 

[pabbi1]

Burnin is that gradual realization that any initial yuckiness in the phones has magically drifted away, and the phones just seem to sound better. Having experienced this over and over, with phones, amps, tubes, cables, and sources, it just takes some period of interactive signal passage for all things to come together - whether it is an hour, a week, or a month - freaking Black Gates...

My latest Russian tubes hissed and crackled for 3 solid weeks in a new build, where I rebuilt boards, replaced attenuators and wire, where nothing worked completely - except burn time. Now, a month later, all is resolved.

But to the orginal question - what is it about the hd600 I like? I admire it's purity - ruler flat, and balanced. While the mid range is the sweet spot, the bass is neither too lean (as it sometimes is on electrostats) nor bloated (as is sometimes the case in the hd650). There is just the faintest bit of grit that gives the 600 a bit of bite, which is, of course, an acquired case. Perhaps the hd680 will follow the 600 path, and correct where they want astray on the hd650.

I use my hd650 to test and burn in new builds and the hd600 to listen.