[Greenears]

   
Are 16-bit-max DACs still even a thing in the PC world? Or do you mean one that actually gets S/N actually better than 16bits?

 
I don't know I have not done a survey.  Since all major DACs are 1 bit nowadays, the parameter is known as ENOB (Effective Number of Bits).  "16 bit DACs" have ENOB 15-15.5 and "24-bit" have ENOB 20-21 bits.
 
High end laptops usually come with Realtek HD Audio which is ENOB of around 20 bit.  It is well regarded by many online (I also have one).  I can't speak for low end or used laptops.  I don't think this is a big deal either way, but since the cost is very low I don't see why not.  Being able to play a 24 bit file and having a 24-bit DAC are two different things, since you can play a 24 bit file on 16 just by dropping the extra bits.

 

[RRod]

 
I actually didn't buy the Pono for transportability.
I only listen to music in the car and on headphones at home.
I bought the Pono thinking I'll get the best sound for my home system in part because of their state of the art DAC and the ability to play HD files.
Since I discovered they can't push the HD650's sufficiently (my best HP) I'm rethinking about owning the Pono as I could easily put the HD files on a USB drive.
So my question boils down to...is there a DAC or DAC/Amp that rivals or betters the DAC in the Pono?

 
Assuming the DAC in the Pono is audibly transparent, then there are tons of DACs out there that rival it *as far as our ears are concerned.* The Pono's DAC might measure better than another DAC, but if the improvements in the measurements are below the thresholds of our hearing, we could never notice.
 
A while ago I took one of my more dynamic tracks, send it through my DAC and amp, recorded into my ADC, aligned the new file with the old, and analyzed the difference. The differences were way below the level of the music, and inaudible to me. And that's with my lowly on-board sound card.

 

[castleofargh]

 

Are 16-bit-max DACs still even a thing in the PC world? Or do you mean one that actually gets S/N actually better than 16bits?

I don't know I have not done a survey.  Since all major DACs are 1 bit nowadays, the parameter is known as ENOB (Effective Number of Bits).  "16 bit DACs" have ENOB 15-15.5 and "24-bit" have ENOB 20-21 bits.

High end laptops usually come with Realtek HD Audio which is ENOB of around 20 bit.  It is well regarded by many online (I also have one).  I can't speak for low end or used laptops.  I don't think this is a big deal either way, but since the cost is very low I don't see why not.  Being able to play a 24 bit file and having a 24-bit DAC are two different things, since you can play a 24 bit file on 16 just by dropping the extra bits.

I would imagine that the only DACs made on 16bit nowadays are a few discrete NOS stuff based on old chipsets. else it would make little sense.

The Pono's DAC might measure better than another DAC...

did I miss some available measurements?

 

[OddE]

  So my question boils down to...is there a DAC or DAC/Amp that rivals or betters the DAC in the Pono?

 
-Say, the Audio-GD NFB-5 gets much praise and is in about the same price range, to give one specific example.

 

[bigshot]

Why would any DAC sound different than any other? If they do, they are defective or poorly designed. Just get an iPod and use the DAC in that. Simple and perfect.

 

[RRod]

I would imagine that the only DACs made on 16bit nowadays are a few discrete NOS stuff based on old chipsets. else it would make little sense.
did I miss some available measurements?

 
That's why I said "might" mate! 

 

[castleofargh]

argh ^…^

 

[BRCMRGN]

 
How much difference is there with balanced mode?
 
Right now with the 650's I have the Pono volume at 100% and yet it's not satisfactory to me and worse the headphone have no high end.
I literally cannot here any drum symbol work with rock.
 
I should add that I've only clocked about 4 hours on my new 650's.

I'll let you know in a few days. The balanced cable is on the HD600 at work and the HD650 is home. I'll get them in the same place and test again.

 

[Koukol]

 

 
How much difference is there with balanced mode?
 
Right now with the 650's I have the Pono volume at 100% and yet it's not satisfactory to me and worse the headphone have no high end.
I literally cannot here any drum symbol work with rock.
 
I should add that I've only clocked about 4 hours on my new 650's.

I'll let you know in a few days. The balanced cable is on the HD600 at work and the HD650 is home. I'll get them in the same place and test again.

cheers!

 

[Koukol]

 

  So my question boils down to...is there a DAC or DAC/Amp that rivals or betters the DAC in the Pono?

 
-Say, the Audio-GD NFB-5 gets much praise and is in about the same price range, to give one specific example.

Thanks...I'll look into this.

 

[Rajikaru]

I don't see anything inherently wrong with the Pono player, and it is certainly more reasonable that say, a $2400 or even $1200 audiophile DAP. 
 
My interpretation of the Pono player and ecosystem is an artist backed attempt to break the Apple / iTunes hold and dominance on the mainstream music market.
 
So if Neil Young is reading this, here are my Sunday-morning-armchair-CEO-quarterbacking-recommendations to accomplish that:
 
1) Drop price of base Pono player to $299.
2) Drop price of artist signature player to $349.
3) Stop the hi-res marketing spiel and just focus on the marketing and selling of Lossless tracks. If they can offer a library that rivaled iTunes, and just charged a little more per track ~$1.49 at 16/44.1 lossless, they would, IMO, have a good chance of converting the market.

 

[Koukol]

 

 

  So my question boils down to...is there a DAC or DAC/Amp that rivals or betters the DAC in the Pono?

 
-Say, the Audio-GD NFB-5 gets much praise and is in about the same price range, to give one specific example.

Thanks...I'll look into this.

OK...what are the applications of this product?
 
Will the USB port accept a hard drive with music files (ISO DSD DSL FLAC) or is it just for powering?
Does it have a headphone output?
Can it be adjusted for pushing different HPs (especially the 650's)?
 
Enquiring minds need to know

 

[bigshot]

  I don't see anything inherently wrong with the Pono player, and it is certainly more reasonable that say, a $2400 or even $1200 audiophile DAP. 

 
What about a $199 audiophile DAP?

 

[Rajikaru]

   
What about a $199 audiophile DAP?
 

 
It would come down to a comparison between specs (amplifier output @ various loads, output impedance), UI,  features, and design preference, assuming transparent performance between both devices. 

 

[OddE]

 
OK...what are the applications of this product?
 
Will the USB port accept a hard drive with music files (ISO DSD DSL FLAC) or is it just for powering?
Does it have a headphone output?
Can it be adjusted for pushing different HPs (especially the 650's)?
 
Enquiring minds need to know

 
http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=Audio-GD+NFB+5
 
...more or less.