[Koukol]

 

  Just convert to PCM and output using HDMI. It sounds exactly the same. You're worrying about the wrong things there.

I have no idea what this means.
Could you please elaborate?

What equipment are we talking about?

 

[bigshot]

Usually, the problem with playing SACDs is DSD. A lot of AV receivers won't play it. The same goes for high bitrates and sampling rates to a lesser degree. But if you go into the menus for the player and set it to output to plain vanilla PCM through the HDMI output (not optical or coax), then it will work fine and sound exactly the same to human ears.

 

[Koukol]

  Usually, the problem with playing SACDs is DSD. A lot of AV receivers won't play it. The same goes for high bitrates and sampling rates to a lesser degree. But if you go into the menus for the player and set it to output to plain vanilla PCM through the HDMI output (not optical or coax), then it will work fine and sound exactly the same to human ears.

What do I connect the HDMI to?
I only have a headphone Amp with RCA inputs.

 

[bigshot]

With headphones, you aren't going to get multichannel anyway. If you are just connecting to a headphone amp, just go optical or coax out to in on the amp, don't use the RCAs. Very few players output that way.

 

[limpidglitch]

   
Hehe.  Never say that - you'll just encourage some totally contrary opinion like this one:
 
If you have budget limits - dump all your optical.  Rip it and sell all the discs and players before they drop further in price.  Sell the Pono.  Get a laptop with Realtek HD Audio (pretty standard), or get an external $100 garden variety external Async USB DAC 24 bit for an existing computer.  You can very well find the laptop used, you can just wipe it and use it exclusively as a player.
 
Given that I just picked up 3 decent microSD 128G cards around $70 each, optical is a dinosaur.  The cards are the size of a fingernail. There is no scientific difference to optical, and the sound I reference above is transparent.  For on the go use any high-end smartphone or pick up a 16 bit player the size of a quarter for <$100.  Use any solid state combined pre-amp amp that is transparent if you have speakers.  Avoid a headphone amp if you can.  I believe you can get the total electronics in the $1000 neighborhood.  Spend every cent you collected from the sales and savings on transducers - you can get lots of help on this forum on your budget and how to divide it between cans and speakers.  If you don't believe it is transparent, ABX it before you sell it.
 
Game, set, match, jump over the net and hit the ball into the stands.
 
I don't have anything against Pono - I think the store is interesting.  But you are in sound science and that's my opinion. 
 
But like I said - you opened the floodgates

 
I'll second this.
I have no reason to believe the Pono sounds bad, hence I have no reason to believe it sounds any different from a decent DAP or cellphone either. Only differences being price and convenience. Is the Clip +/Zip still available? Those were nice little units once loaded with Rockbox.
 
Personally I have an 11 year old 12' iBook G4 running Tiger doing the duties as a music server (It's so cute!). Storage has been extended externally and sound is output through a simple DIY DAC.
I still buy CDs, but only when that is the only format they are available in, and then I immediately rip them, scan the art if necessary, and store them in a cardboard box. I also have a few SACDs and a player (a Marantz, coincidentally), from when I had a try at that. All boxed up and gathering dust. Probably should have sold it long a go, but it's such a bother.

 

[Koukol]

  With headphones, you aren't going to get multichannel anyway. If you are just connecting to a headphone amp, just go optical or coax out to in on the amp, don't use the RCAs. Very few players output that way.

Bigshot,
 
Are you reading my posts or just skimming highlights (if you can call them highlights)
I never brought up Multichannel listening because I listen to music mostly with my Headphone set-up.
I also JUST said in the last post my HP Amp ONLY has RCA inputs.

 

[Koukol]

 

   
Hehe.  Never say that - you'll just encourage some totally contrary opinion like this one:
 
If you have budget limits - dump all your optical.  Rip it and sell all the discs and players before they drop further in price.  Sell the Pono.  Get a laptop with Realtek HD Audio (pretty standard), or get an external $100 garden variety external Async USB DAC 24 bit for an existing computer.  You can very well find the laptop used, you can just wipe it and use it exclusively as a player.
 
Given that I just picked up 3 decent microSD 128G cards around $70 each, optical is a dinosaur.  The cards are the size of a fingernail. There is no scientific difference to optical, and the sound I reference above is transparent.  For on the go use any high-end smartphone or pick up a 16 bit player the size of a quarter for <$100.  Use any solid state combined pre-amp amp that is transparent if you have speakers.  Avoid a headphone amp if you can.  I believe you can get the total electronics in the $1000 neighborhood.  Spend every cent you collected from the sales and savings on transducers - you can get lots of help on this forum on your budget and how to divide it between cans and speakers.  If you don't believe it is transparent, ABX it before you sell it.
 
Game, set, match, jump over the net and hit the ball into the stands.
 
I don't have anything against Pono - I think the store is interesting.  But you are in sound science and that's my opinion. 
 
But like I said - you opened the floodgates

 
I'll second this.
I have no reason to believe the Pono sounds bad, hence I have no reason to believe it sounds any different from a decent DAP or cellphone either. Only differences being price and convenience. Is the Clip +/Zip still available? Those were nice little units once loaded with Rockbox.
 
Personally I have an 11 year old 12' iBook G4 running Tiger doing the duties as a music server (It's so cute!). Storage has been extended externally and sound is output through a simple DIY DAC.
I still buy CDs, but only when that is the only format they are available in, and then I immediately rip them, scan the art if necessary, and store them in a cardboard box. I also have a few SACDs and a player (a Marantz, coincidentally), from when I had a try at that. All boxed up and gathering dust. Probably should have sold it long a go, but it's such a bother.

Ok, this is what I think I'm getting from you guys...
 
24bit is no better than 16 bit and all DAC's are equal.
 
Do you guys also believe 1080P (when done right) doesn't look any better than 420P?

 

[RRod]

 
Ok, this is what I think I'm getting from you guys...
 
24bit is no better than 16 bit and all DAC's are equal.
 
Do you guys also believe 1080P (when done right) doesn't look any better than 420P?

 
The limits of human hearing are different than the limits of human sight; egad!

 

[Koukol]

 

 
Ok, this is what I think I'm getting from you guys...
 
24bit is no better than 16 bit and all DAC's are equal.
 
Do you guys also believe 1080P (when done right) doesn't look any better than 420P?

 
The limits of human hearing are different than the limits of human sight; egad!

Yes I know that but they both DO have limits and they're different with each person.
So that's a "no"
 
What about this question?..24bit is no better than 16 bit and all DAC's are equal.

 

[RRod]

 
Yes I know that but they both DO have limits and they're different with each person.
So that's a "no"
 
What about this question?..24bit is no better than 16 bit and all DAC's are equal.

 
For music delivery, 16 is just as good as 24. Try converting between them yourself. All well-implemented DAC units of decent DAC chips should be equal in terms of audibility. That doesn't have to cost $5000.

 

[limpidglitch]

 
What about this question: 24bit is no better than 16 bit…
 

 
Correct
 

…and all DAC's are equal.
 

 
Not quite so simple.
 
While the matter of bit depth is very clearly defined, DACs are not.
There are countless ways to make a DAC, of which many obtain transparency, but not all. By design or incompetence, some DACs can audibly distort the sound.

Though suffice to say, if you compare the DACs in say a Yamaha, Sony and Apple product, they ought to sound exactly the same.

 

[castleofargh]

 

 


Ok, this is what I think I'm getting from you guys...

24bit is no better than 16 bit and all DAC's are equal.

Do you guys also believe 1080P (when done right) doesn't look any better than 420P?

The limits of human hearing are different than the limits of human sight; egad!

Yes I know that but they both DO have limits and they're different with each person.
So that's a "no"

What about this question?..24bit is no better than 16 bit and all DAC's are equal.

if you want to make analogies make the good ones. the bit depth only concerns the quietest part of the signal. that doesn't really translate into picture or video. and even if we forget about that "detail", do you think something printed shows much improvement above 300dpi?
when the value gets beyond what we perceive, more just looks and sounds the same. you're analogy would kind of work(badly) to talk about 6bit vs 8bit.

 

[Greenears]

   
Or a used Mac Mini for a couple hundred bucks
 
Doesn't your Sony blu-ray player do SACD?

 
I didn't mention all the standalone screenless and keyboardless options.  Mac Mini is certainly valid and there are 10s of good options in the PC and Linux world as well in the <$200 range.  My only advice would be get state-of-the-art 24 bit DAC.  Why? It's very little incremental dollars and you're going to a lot of effort to set this all up.  Even if it may be nearly audibly transparent I just figure why not. There may be options in that class I don't know but that's what I would do.
 
However, personally I prefer a laptop because a keyboard is very useful editing and building playlists while you are playing, plus it is easy to take to the other room.  It's a usage thing not anything fundamental to sound quality.

 

[RRod]

   
I didn't mention all the standalone screenless and keyboardless options.  Mac Mini is certainly valid and there are 10s of good options in the PC and Linux world as well in the <$200 range.  My only advice would be get state-of-the-art 24 bit DAC.  Why? It's very little incremental dollars and you're going to a lot of effort to set this all up.  Even if it may be nearly audibly transparent I just figure why not. There may be options in that class I don't know but that's what I would do.
 
However, personally I prefer a laptop because a keyboard is very useful editing and building playlists while you are playing, plus it is easy to take to the other room.  It's a usage thing not anything fundamental to sound quality.

 
Are 16-bit-max DACs still even a thing in the PC world? Or do you mean one that actually gets S/N actually better than 16bits?

 

[bigshot]

The internal DAC in the Mini supports 24/192. It's pretty much a Swiss Army Knife for file formats. You need to use HDMI though, because I don't think Toslink will carry that. My whole system is HDMI now.