[Paladin79]

Much, much better? I've had the 80's for only a couple of days and I'm already a big fan of the midrange of those tubes. I haven't compared them to my stock tubes that came with my amp yet, the shuguang we6sn7, but to be honest I don't think it's worth it. The melz are in another league. As soon as they were in. The first song I listened to. I was already a very happy guy. Good news I found a guy willing to sell me his melz 63's. I am receiving the tung sol ladder plates 6f8g's monday or tuesday though, and I'm not sure if I will prefer the sound of those, I can't wait to try them out. If I'm not a fan of the 6f8g sound, there's a high chance that I get a pair of melz from the 60's! What are your thoughts about the 63's compared to the 80's? What's better?

The mids are indeed prominent on the 80's version, and Bill can answer this also but I continue to own those tubes from the 60's,70's, and 80's and have spent a lot of time with them. As I recall Bill may have reflowed the solder on his 80's version so that should not have been an issue at the time. I do not claim to have Bill's sense of hearing but the top person I know locally was part of a small group that did a blind listening with me. The consensus was the 63 had a more responsive bass and more realistic mids, both were incredible in the highs. The 70's version was a little closer to the 63 sound. I looked at all three with test equipment and I really did not see much distortion in the mids on the 80's, just a slightly higher level in mid frequencies and a little lower bass.

 

[bcowen]

Much, much better? I've had the 80's for only a couple of days and I'm already a big fan of the midrange of those tubes. I haven't compared them to my stock tubes that came with my amp yet, the shuguang we6sn7, but to be honest I don't think it's worth it. The melz are in another league. As soon as they were in. The first song I listened to. I was already a very happy guy. Good news I found a guy willing to sell me his melz 63's. I am receiving the tung sol ladder plates 6f8g's monday or tuesday though, and I'm not sure if I will prefer the sound of those, I can't wait to try them out. If I'm not a fan of the 6f8g sound, there's a high chance that I get a pair of melz from the 60's! What are your thoughts about the 63's compared to the 80's? What's better?

Well, 'much' is a relatively subjective term. And personal preference is even more subjective. I think the '63 I have is more balanced from top to bottom. The '80's were more forward in the midrange and a bit more aggressive up top (not to the level of being fatiguing at all, just having a bit sharper edge to the notes). The '63 is more evenly balanced across the frequency spectrum. Hard to say one is 'better' per se as I think a lot depends on preference and ancillary equipment. I'll put it this way: if I had a choice to buy a '63 or an '80's version for the same price, I'd pick the '63. If the 80's was, say, 25% less than the '63, I'd go with the '80. Hope that makes sense and helps some. I hate trying to assign percentages, but in this case I'll suggest that you're getting probably 90+% of the Melz goodness with the '80s, so how much that extra 10% is worth to you is obviously a personal judgement call. And again, that's just IMO based on a relatively limited listening period.

 

[bcowen]

I have a few of the Tung Sol 5998's myself, as far as the others, I hate to spend more on one tube than I spent on the total parts in the amps I build lol. I strive for balance.
The tubes you use in conjunction with 6sn7's matter so I do not consider it too far off topic but that is just my opinion. If you can catch any deals on British 6sn7 or 5998 equivalents, you should PM me. If anyone like @bcowen or @Ripper2860 approaches you with the same request, I would run away as if they are he was contagious.

Here....I edited this for clarity. No charge.

 

[bcowen]

Got ya. They are on another level compared to all the other 6080's, but are getting harder and harder to find.

I bought a trio of Chatham/TungSol graphite plates...not Bendix(s), but was hoping they'd be close. Unfortunately they have disappeared into the Charlotte USPS black hole and unlikely to ever be seen again.

If I bought a GE, it would be in my mailbox tomorrow. But try getting a good tube? Not gonna happen, at least if it's shipped with the USPS.

On the plus side, I *did* get a response today that they'd received my "Package Search Request" for the missing TungSol 5998 tube.....that I requested back on May 27th (!). They have become so absurd lately you can't do anything but laugh.

 

[Dave01236]

Well, 'much' is a relatively subjective term. And personal preference is even more subjective. I think the '63 I have is more balanced from top to bottom. The '80's were more forward in the midrange and a bit more aggressive up top (not to the level of being fatiguing at all, just having a bit sharper edge to the notes). The '63 is more evenly balanced across the frequency spectrum. Hard to say one is 'better' per se as I think a lot depends on preference and ancillary equipment. I'll put it this way: if I had a choice to buy a '63 or an '80's version for the same price, I'd pick the '63. If the 80's was, say, 25% less than the '63, I'd go with the '80. Hope that makes sense and helps some. I hate trying to assign percentages, but in this case I'll suggest that you're getting probably 90+% of the Melz goodness with the '80s, so how much that extra 10% is worth to you is obviously a personal judgement call. And again, that's just IMO based on a relatively limited listening period.

You are right, it is indeed personal preference. It is true the 80's have aggressive highs, I have noticed that too. How's the bass with the 63's?

 

[bcowen]

You are right, it is indeed personal preference. It is true the 80's have aggressive highs, I have noticed that too. How's the bass with the 63's?

The bass in the '63's is one of its more alluring qualities, to me. It's got that swing and rhythm to it that I hear in many Russian tubes like the Fotons. Even in these Pinnacle-labeled Russian 6J5's I have that seem to be a source of amusement to a person or two. Maybe it's more in the mid-to-upper bass where whatever it is that's occurring is occurring. Compared to the Foton the Melz has a little more extension and weight, and is more full bodied. Neither the Melz or Foton are what I'd label as basshead tubes. If someone wants to shear the drivers out of their 'phones with elevated subterranean bass hammering, the Melz won't do it. Personally I much prefer bass that has weight and authority with good slam and dynamics....but is not overblown, accentuated, or lacking in definition and the '63 scores pretty highly in that regard to me. Compared to the '80's? Hard to say quite honestly. It's been a while now since I had the '80's, and I don't recall there being a big difference between the two in that area. Most of the difference that stood out to me was in the mids, treble, and overall balance where the '63 edges out the '80.

 

[Wes S]

I bought a trio of Chatham/TungSol graphite plates...not Bendix(s), but was hoping they'd be close. Unfortunately they have disappeared into the Charlotte USPS black hole and unlikely to ever be seen again.

If I bought a GE, it would be in my mailbox tomorrow. But try getting a good tube? Not gonna happen, at least if it's shipped with the USPS.

On the plus side, I *did* get a response today that they'd received my "Package Search Request" for the missing TungSol 5998 tube.....that I requested back on May 27th (!). They have become so absurd lately you can't do anything but laugh.

Bummer! My company works directly with USPS, and I still won't use them myself if given the option. They need a serious overall!

 

[bcowen]

Bummer! My company works directly with USPS, and I still won't use them myself if given the option. They need a serious overall!

I was reading a story this morning that the Minneapolis city council has voted on legislation to de-fund the police department. I don't want to even think about starting a discussion on that particular topic -- I only mention it because I have a much better idea of something to de-fund.

 

[Wes S]

I was reading a story this morning that the Minneapolis city council has voted on legislation to de-fund the police department. I don't want to even think about starting a discussion on that particular topic -- I only mention it because I have a much better idea of something to de-fund.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Paladin79]

The bass in the '63's is one of its more alluring qualities, to me. It's got that swing and rhythm to it that I hear in many Russian tubes like the Fotons. Even in these Pinnacle-labeled Russian 6J5's I have that seem to be a source of amusement to a person or two. Maybe it's more in the mid-to-upper bass where whatever it is that's occurring is occurring. Compared to the Foton the Melz has a little more extension and weight, and is more full bodied. Neither the Melz or Foton are what I'd label as basshead tubes. If someone wants to shear the drivers out of their 'phones with elevated subterranean bass hammering, the Melz won't do it. Personally I much prefer bass that has weight and authority with good slam and dynamics....but is not overblown, accentuated, or lacking in definition and the '63 scores pretty highly in that regard to me. Compared to the '80's? Hard to say quite honestly. It's been a while now since I had the '80's, and I don't recall there being a big difference between the two in that area. Most of the difference that stood out to me was in the mids, treble, and overall balance where the '63 edges out the '80.

I do not get the 80's out real often but I will try to do that today after I get some work done on an amp or two plus a couple side projects. I have only heard the 80's in other amps so I will give an 80 and 63 an A/B test in some identical Incubus amps today. I tend to borrow some test equipment from an engineering lab but I still have a few things in my shop that will give an accurate appraisal. I generally have help so that can make things go a little faster.

My wife has taken over part of my shop with pottery so, I should not get yelled at too much if I set up a few things in the family room, she may not even notice.

 

[Wes S]

Got to love the look of @Deyan 's adapters! I really love how the color scheme even matches my amp. It is also nice knowing it is a high quality point to point wired adapter, that makes tube rolling a breeze. Bravo!

 

[bcowen]

I do not get the 80's out real often but I will try to do that today after I get some work done on an amp or two plus a couple side projects. I have only heard the 80's in other amps so I will give an 80 and 63 an A/B test in some identical Incubus amps today. I tend to borrow some test equipment from an engineering lab but I still have a few things in my shop that will give an accurate appraisal. I generally have help so that can make things go a little faster.

My wife has taken over part of my shop with pottery so, I should not get yelled at too much if I set up a few things in the family room, she may not even notice.

I'm betting that turntable would sound a lot better if you hooked it up. But engineering is not my forte'.

 

[Wes S]

I do not get the 80's out real often but I will try to do that today after I get some work done on an amp or two plus a couple side projects. I have only heard the 80's in other amps so I will give an 80 and 63 an A/B test in some identical Incubus amps today. I tend to borrow some test equipment from an engineering lab but I still have a few things in my shop that will give an accurate appraisal. I generally have help so that can make things go a little faster.

My wife has taken over part of my shop with pottery so, I should not get yelled at too much if I set up a few things in the family room, she may not even notice.

Dang!! That is some serious looking equipment. You really don't mess around.

 

[Ripper2860]

Dang!! That is some serious looking equipment. You really don't mess around.

That's just so he can covertly communicate via secure means with his Russian suppliers of transformers and tubes. Wait til you see his actual test equipment!!

 

[Paladin79]

I'm betting that turntable would sound a lot better if you hooked it up. But engineering is not my forte'.

Shhhh

Everything has to be somewhere and at that moment I just needed a place to set it down lol.. My wife has the shop already so I am setting up dual amps to check an 86 Melz against the 63, amps, cables, everything is as identical as I can get it. Source is a Gungnir with some special test tracks where I can concentrate on any portion of the sound spectrum.

I already shared my secret of lighted tubes in a headphone rack with you, you should take that to the grave.



If I look around some more I might find more Melz tubes but I did come across some from 63,69,73, and 86 so I have a small assortment but I will concentrate on 63 and 86 right now. Power tubes will be matched winged C Svetlanas from 1979, and maybe later some Tung Sol 5998's.

Tubes and switch boxes are in place, I may check out the 73's vs the 63 and 86 if I get time.

The bass is a bit more pronounced on the 86 version but a little muddled compared to the 63.IMHO, mids are definitely more pronounced on the 86 as I said earlier. I am monitoring volume levels with meters on each amp to assure all is equal.

I am happy listening to either but side by side there are certainly differences. These are just initial reactions, more testing to follow.

I am picking out things in the 63's I do not hear as well with the 86 version, generally low frequency range.

The 73 is like a cross between the two, I will have to listen to this one more. A test track that is fairly accessible is Daft Punk's Around the World, it is pretty redundant but that is a good thing when you are switching back and forth between tubes.

They are all interesting in their own way but for bass accuracy I would go with the 63, then the 73, and lastly the 86. Mids are more out front in the 86, 73 is more linear like the 63. I can understand anyone loving the Melz from any of those three decades.

73 has much higher bass thump than a 69, about to try a 56 Melz with most of the same parts, just to see where it stacks up.

Ok this tube shows promise but I need to listen to a few more. Bill I may have to send you a 73 and an 80's Melz so you can listen in the Incubus. Also if you have an Melz with the metal top wings, stepped bottom mica but no holes in the plate, let me know, 55,56, and 57 preferably. Bill the 73 and 86 are only loaners, keep that in mind.