[BlueA]

Thanks! aleas price is not the same for me: 210€

 

[happyblack]

Thanks! aleas price is not the same for me: 210€

That's due to VAT and other import fees.

AliExpress prices differ quite significantly across the world.. Therefore it's safer to assume you're going to pay around 20% more than people say they would, lol.

 

[BlueA]

Yet the starting price is the same in $ and € … and conversion is lower when using penon

 

[BS5711]

I have presented a while back, a weathered Orb set.
Honestly, I cannot afford an IEC set due to cost and weight.
For work reasons, I travel a lot nowadays, where the job brings me I have to keep my personals as minimal as possible.
To manage a lot of stuff on top of staff management and the work itself can be grueling.
All the Penon sets I can carry is Non negotiable (LOL), hence, their individual cases are no more, I use Daiso compact cases to keep them safe.
I brought with me my imm6 though, but not enough free time to graph, and I just past the 110 hour mark for the 10th.
So if I have the time, I can generate another rough graph with 100 hours as baseline and progress from heron in.

Below is a rough graph, I'd say fairly accurate, without pina compensation. Those 3 crests about 10k, 14k, 16k were an improvement over the from zero hour.
Also to note, tip and upgrade cable may have influenced more of that treble improvement...

Sorry I am a bit lost as to what you are showing.

There is one graph, I don't understand what that is being compared against as indication of improvement.

That aside, I am happy to leave the conversation at that since I don't want to come across as arguing with the folks here.

 

[-rowan-]

Just a quick PSA since I still see occasional requests for budget Serial cable pairings.

Not Penon, but this XINHS cable has emerged as my favourite sub-$50 pick for the Serial. Plays well with the 10th as well so far. Currently on sale at AE for quite a bit less than when I bought it in Nov 2021* (although your actual price will depend on your location, coupons and taxes).

Spoiler: Link

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005002994387021.html

* Let’s just say I bought a bunch of XINHS cables round about that time (including their famed graphene one) and this is the only one I still use regularly.

 

[anyone007]

Can I politely ask, how do you remember what the IEM sounded like 500 hours ago to judge if there is any difference.

Running all day and night constantly that is 21 days. I would struggle to remember specific details of sound 21 minutes later let alone 21 days.

This isn't coming from a complete burn in disbeliever, I think I have heard changes with some sets but frankly I am not sure it is IEM burn in, brain burn in or simply different perception on a different day which I know for certain happens.

I don't want to start a burn in argument, but I am interested in how you determine there was substantial change a minimum of 21 days later, possibly longer if the burn in wasn't continuous. Very precise notes, recording the sound and comparing ???

I don't know why somebody with the right gear doesn't record an IEM when new then say 500 hours old and use software to analyses the difference, that can't be hard with the right gear.

I understand where you're coming from. Fair enough. To answer the question, I guess it's story time. lol

When I was starting with the hobby, I developed a habit of listening to an IEM or earbuds out of the box and will note down the description of the sound as detailed as possible based on what I’m hearing.

“Loose bass, recessed mids, highs are too bright”, “Tight bass, forward mids, smooth highs, warm tonality”, “Great bass texture but with slight bass bleed, highs are sibilant, mediocre layering and imaging” and the list goes on. You know what I mean.

Then I’ll simply go back to my notes and compare it after the 200 hours burn in. That’s pretty much how I started to check and see if there would be changes.

Another thing that I did was due to a certain circumstance, like recommending a gear to a friend and the likes, I happen to have duplicate earbuds/IEMs and experiment some stuff with blind testing (literally blindfolded with a help of a friend lol). So the duplicate item is fully burn in for 200 hours++ versus the brand new one and will listen to it blindfolded and determine which is which. Did it multiple times on different occasion with different gears. I can pretty much nail it 10/10. lol

It's kinda silly and cringey with what we’re doing to ourselves at that time but it was enjoyable. Still part of my audio journey.

At the end of the day, whether you believe it or not, doesn’t really matter as long as you enjoy music.

Happy listening!

 

[-rowan-]

This may not be applicable to all or something you should believe in, but most people here do it.

I don't have Fan2 but I have the Serial, 10th, and Volt. I can at least share my experience with Volt. After 500 hours (yeah, it's very long) of straight burn-in, there's a substantial change on the sound. And of course it's a good one. There are subtle changes from 50 hours to 200 hours and 300 hours. What's funny is, when I heard the changes around 200 hours, it's already good, however, when it reached the 300 hours mark, the highs suddenly sounded dull and muted (which never happened to others I guess). I was actually got anxious and surprised but I keep on going. After hitting 500 hours, I'm very happy that it changed again and now my Volt sounds beautiful.

I'm not good at technical stuff or science about burn in, but a good friend of mine tried to explain it to me (I didn't understand the whole thing of course, lol). But from what I understand, if an IEM has a dynamic driver, you need at least 200 hours to hear the final sound. And 500 hours for EST and Planars.

The only reason why I believe in burn in is because I used to buy a lot of earbuds and budget level IEMs (which most of the time are Dynamic Drivers) when I was starting and I developed a habit of listening to those units for 30 mins to 1 hour to memorize its sound and I will leave it to my burner DAP for 200 hours straight. And I always here changes afterwards, some are drastic and some are subtle, but it's always better.

So take your time and burn Fan2 further, probably 150 hours more. Hopefully it'll be acceptable to your preference.

Happy listening!

I have no desire to persuade anyone that burn-in is real or otherwise, but here's my wholly unscientific experience FWIW, and it's a bit similar.

Back when I bought the Volt, I had no idea what I was getting myself into in terms of how long it would take to burn in. I knew the DD at least would benefit before long, so I went through the motions. I heard the DD tighten up noticeably over the first 50-100 hours - all good. Then I let run another 150 hours or so and really couldn't hear any more changes by then so I took it that the drivers were done breaking in. I wasn't thrilled with the relative lack of highs but didn't think anything was going to change by then.

So I'd long given up counting and I wasn't even looking out for anything by then, but I started noticing changes as the Volt's upper treble started coming alive around half a year later. I put that at around 500 hours or so.

Was it brain burn in? Maybe, but I don't listen to the Volt (or any other IEM for the matter) exclusively, not even for a day. And if it's missing something like treble air or sub bass extension, it's missing - one doesn't get used to that if one's enjoyment of a certain music track hinges on it.

I have a list of test tracks that I'm extremely familiar with, and when I listen to a new or unfamiliar IEM, my most rudimentary notes are often with reference to specific things (e.g. "fast runs in LH very muddy from 1:34" or "cowbells missing air at 2:17"). It's not at all scientific, but if concerns like these go away, I take it that some sort of burn in (be it gear or brain) has happened. And if not, it may be time to move on.

There's just nothing wrong with serial, especially on the right cable (still working on that)!!! Serial, at such a great price point, can go anywhere with me, even the beach, possibly. It's nice to not worry so much...i read another poor dude lost an Xe6 hiking. While I would be pretty upset, it would hurt a lot less with serial.

Funny you mention this, but I couldn't possibly bring my Serial anywhere even if I wanted to. The connectors are so loose now that the shells fall off the cables with almost no provocation and they may as well be TWS.

 

[BlueA]

Brain plasticity does not only occurs when you act. Like some informations or experiences it is processed with time.
Listening once to an in-ear long enough can start an adaptation process.

Uncommon infos require more time to adapt but once you have processed it, pattern recognition kicks in.
(aka what we call constructor audio signatures)

I'm not saying that drivers burning does not occurs but just that brain is more flexible than electronic components

 

[BS5711]

Brain plasticity does not only occurs when you act. Like some informations or experiences it is processed with time.
Listening once to an in-ear long enough can start and adaptation process.

Uncommon infos require more time to adaptation but once you have processed it, pattern recognition kicks in.
(companies audio Signatures)

I'm not saying that drivers burning does not occurs but just that brain is more flexible than electronic components

I agree in general.

I can’t say that gear burn in does not happen because I think I have experienced it myself.

However, I know for a fact based on my own experience, that I don’t always hear the same and my auditory memory is not reliable so both these combined make assessing gear burn in highly questionable for me personally.

I have no argument with others that have more faith in their listening abilities such that judging something hundreds of hours apart using written notes as the basis for how something used to sound. However, I still can’t help being doubtful when I read such comments but I acknowledge that is just me using my own position on the matter as the basis for judgement.

 

[Unterstuffz]

Got the Serial (and Love them) are there must try eartips to roll ?

 

[Xinlisupreme]

Just a quick PSA since I still see occasional requests for budget Serial cable pairings.



Not Penon, but this XINHS cable has emerged as my favourite sub-$50 pick for the Serial. Plays well with the 10th as well so far. Currently on sale at AE for quite a bit less than when I bought it in Nov 2021* (although your actual price will depend on your location, coupons and taxes).

Spoiler: Link

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005002994387021.html

* Let’s just say I bought a bunch of XINHS cables round about that time (including their famed graphene one) and this is the only one I still use regularly.

Did you compare it with Penon Mix on Serial?

 

[-rowan-]

Did you compare it with Penon Mix on Serial?

Sorry, I don’t have the Mix.

I have no argument with others that have more faith in their listening abilities such that judging something hundreds of hours apart using written notes as the basis for how something used to sound.

I don’t claim to have golden ears or even a good memory. I am however able to immediately recognise what I enjoy and what I don’t, regardless of whether I myself am even able to quantify or describe it. Sometimes I try, in the (maybe misguided) hope that it might help someone else searching for the same thing. I’m not a reviewer - they serve an important role here, and I should not be mistaken for one. Mostly, the enjoyment of music and gear is the reason why I’m even here (and end up spending the amount of money that I do). As with all things, ymmv.

 

[-rowan-]

Got the Serial (and Love them) are there must try eartips to roll ?

What tips have you tried with the Serial so far and what would you like to change/improve about them? It might help us give better recommendations.

 

[Xinlisupreme]

Sorry, I don’t have the Mix.

And This one?
https://a.aliexpress.com/_EuuGyEz

 

[-rowan-]

And this one?

https://a.aliexpress.com/_EuuGyEz

No, but it’s in my cart. Thinking of picking it up in the current sale as I liked the other so much and this one seems to have good feedback in other threads.