[CoiL]

Edit: One thing though, LM4562 seems to get pretty hot. Is it ok for such opamp or does it need to be cooled down? Or better not to use it?
OPA1692 seems to work @ about room temp. Latter seems to sound tad more "airy & open" by initial impressions.
Will let them "burn" and report sometime soon about sound.

Any comments on that issue?

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

This is why I say annoyingly as the LM4562 produces very detailed, tight output but IMO often comes at the expense of sounding a bit clinical which can be fatiguing.

Oh, I get now what you meant about “clinical.” Plan on get it some LM4562 but it’s funny, you know, I’m not sure... we especially older people who remember the ‘sound’of the analogue world prefer its imperfections and ‘musicality’ and reject the ‘modern’ sound of digital etc.

When something is too ‘clinical’ I’ll just burn a digital recording from vinyl or play a vinyl through the preamp. I found it ‘offsets’ the clinical sound with a more natural sound. It’s my version of a ‘cheat sheet’ and makes the analogue sound cleaner with more detail and also smooths out the harshness of the vinyl’s issues with tremble and muddled bass. Digital recording repair software also comes in handy on eliminating pops, hiss and cracks. Vinyl at its apex sounds best but it’s a diva and requires lots of tlc, no doubt

We love our op amps to have low distortion. However, I have found like Jimi Hendrix a little feedback and distortion to sound pretty musical. Vinyl is the most distorted medium. Some prefer it since it sounds more warm and natural makes sense based on my biased opinion.

I always question is, is a chicken before the egg when it comes to natural sounding vs clinical. Luckily we live in an age where you blend what’s old with something new!

Happy medium is always the best way (if you can find that balance).

 

[CoiL]

Yea let us know how the combo works out for you with the Opa1692 + Opa2228!

OPA1692+OPA2228 vs. LM4562+OPA2228 - I think both combinations sound very good by initial impressions but 1st combination sounds more "flowing" and natural with same amount of details. It sounds slightly more open&airy.
Second setup seems to have maybe slightly tighter and more "focused" imaging with instruments more focused and separated from background effects. Idk, it`s hard to explain.

This is why I say annoyingly as the LM4562 produces very detailed, tight output but IMO often comes at the expense of sounding a bit clinical which can be fatiguing.

Actually, I think OPA2228 might be "taming" LM4562 "annoyance" and sounds very good.
But I`m having problem LM4562 getting very hot

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

OPA1692+OPA2228 vs. LM4562+OPA2228 - I think both combinations sound very good by initial impressions but 1st combination sounds more "flowing" and natural with same amount of details. It sounds slightly more open&airy.
Second setup seems to have maybe slightly tighter and more "focused" imaging with instruments more focused and separated from background effects. Idk, it`s hard to explain.

Sounds like you got the right rig for yourself and hit it out of the park!

Ugh, I just LOVE when the airy sound is just right! Such nice and pleasant sound reminds of me of those blissful subtones you great in a tenor saxophone with natural air and tone!

You might wanna try opa1652 in lieu of the LM4562, it’s great too but I’ve heard it sounds better in the voltage stage. It’s got a nice soundstage with a beautiful airy sound!

 

[CoiL]

Btw, I totally forgot about V5i-D as I can also swap it against OPA2134. In output stage it didn`t work but maybe as dac differential it will?
Will report back soon.

Edit:
Anyway, by this short time I`ve compared LM4562 vs. OPA1692 paired with OPA2228 - I think I prefer SQ of latter combo.
And dat LM4562 get so hot very fast in my setup anyway (sounds "intense" and good though).
Now need to get Stock opamp back and compare how much really difference is. I don`t like "new toy" syndrome and try to avoid it.

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

Btw, I totally forgot about V5i-D as I can also swap it against OPA2134. In output stage it didn`t work but maybe as dac differential it will?
Will report back soon.

Edit:
Anyway, by this short time I`ve compared LM4562 vs. OPA1692 paired with OPA2228 - I think I prefer SQ of latter combo.
And dat LM4562 get so hot very fast in my setup anyway (sounds "intense" and good though).
Now need to get Stock opamp back and compare how much really difference is. I don`t like "new toy" syndrome and try to avoid it.

Technically speaking the ‘airy’ sound is created by noise from gain. It’s the same in pictures the more you raise the gain you get noise in the frame.

It’s really not natural but we love it aesthetically in sound and (even in selfies) lol.

 

[CoiL]

Technically speaking the ‘airy’ sound is created by noise from gain. It’s the same in pictures the more you raise the gain you get noise in the frame.
It’s really not natural but we love it aesthetically in sound and (even in selfies) lol.

Whatever You say and makes You happy but I don`t think so
I hear no "noise" whatsoever and hear improvements in details(micro) all over FR and rather talking about "air" which comes from more detailed and resolving highs (12kHz and up, which create that "air"). I hear "black background" and more detailed/clear instruments with rather less "distorted sound" and revealing more out of greatly mastered recordings (which is anyway basis of all replayable recordings).

About OPA1692 + OPA2228 - I now definitely prefer this combo. It is more "balanced", has more natural timbre and more natural "soundscape/room" of recording.
LM4562 combo gets too "intense" and it`s like trying to decide whether to be surround speaker system or very good open-back headphone... but gets "stuck" in the middle, sometimes having congested small separated stage within large opera hall. I`m overemphasizing and trying to "paint a picture", hopefully someone understands.

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

Whatever You say and makes You happy but I don`t think so
I hear no "noise" whatsoever and hear improvements in details(micro) all over FR and rather talking about "air" which comes from more detailed and resolving highs (12kHz and up, which create that "air"). I hear "black background" and more detailed/clear instruments with rather less "distorted sound" and revealing more out of greatly mastered recordings (which is anyway basis of all replayable recordings).

About OPA1692 + OPA2228 - I now definitely prefer this combo. It is more "balanced", has more natural timbre and more natural "soundscape/room" of recording.
LM4562 combo gets too "intense" and it`s like trying to decide whether to be surround speaker system or very good open-back headphone... but gets "stuck" in the middle, sometimes having congested small separated stage within large opera hall. I`m overemphasizing and trying to "paint a picture", hopefully someone understands.

Noise is generated by pressure on your ears.

You are raising the gain to get to those frequency. It’s alteration. Noise can be tempered (measured) or not. All reproduction of a recording is artificial.

The “airy” sound is an effect like reverb is to “room correction” or a byproduct of raising the frequency if you like to a certain level.

Everything is video capture in “RAW” then compressed. The analogy is valid since we are talking about the same process of compression.

You don’t want see lint on your shirt, just like you don’t want or hear feedback in a room. That’s “natural.” Therefore some is altered in post production. Hope this helps.

 

[CoiL]

...you don’t want or hear feedback in a room. That’s “natural.”

This is where our mind&earsets differ and split - I want to hear reverbs&delays&echoes of room, guitar cabinet, drum shells etc. And there`s the fault in my eyes(ears) - ppl tend to "think on paper" and by "making it clean", making it actually worse by taking out too much and then we get artificial/digital/dry/ultra-clean sound that we actually do not hear in real life, in real band room/concert, with real instruments. But I honestly don`t want to discuss about this subject as it gets too offtopic.
Lets just say that sound is very subjective

Back to opamps...

 

[Ivan TT]

Edit: One thing though, LM4562 seems to get pretty hot. Is it ok for such opamp or does it need to be cooled down? Or better not to use it?

Most likely it is oscillating (and most likely in MHz range, so will not be audible).
Interesting side-effect of oscillating opamp is that it effectively biases it in class-A operation, giving intensity of sound (and power consumption/heat).
Sorry, I forgot where you are using it and in what stage, if it's output stage adding series resistors may help, also adding capacitors in feedback loop or small bypass caps on power supplies may help too (as some general directions towards fixing the issue).

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

This is where our mind&earsets differ and split - I want to hear reverbs&delays&echoes of room, guitar cabinet, drum shells etc. And there`s the fault in my eyes(ears) - ppl tend to "think on paper" and by "making it clean", making it actually worse by taking out too much and then we get artificial/digital/dry/ultra-clean sound that we actually do not hear in real life, in real band room/concert, with real instruments. But I honestly don`t want to discuss about this subject as it gets too offtopic.
Lets just say that sound is very subjective

Back to opamps...

No such thing as a no distortion op amp. This is a fact. There’s always noise. Get super sensitive high impedance headphones and you will find it in the signal even in balanced.

Moreover, we are NOT talking about our natural sense, we are talking about how they can be manipulated by audio equipment. There’s also nothing ‘natural’ in the production of music. Equipment must be clinical for it to sound good. We use condenser microphone with clinical op amps to capture the sound we want and not the noise we don’t want like air. So again it comes down to application of what sound the op amp you want create.

My point is that the “airy” sound you hear is an effect otherwise it would be true on all op amps but if you tuned it even the LM4562 on a dedicated Circuit board to those frequencies or higher on the DAC using boost converters that operate on high frequencies, I’m sure you’ll get the airy sound. I know I have done it on other op amps haphazardly. I’m sure it can be done this way by playing around with resistance, capacitors, etc. as well?! The performance part measured in data sheets should be used as guidelines of how to optimize the desired sound but also how to get it work properly without oscillating.

And we haven’t even talked about how digital filter alter the sound of the op amp with firmware apres it’s processed through the binary digital to analogue artificial conversion- more than one way to skim a cat.

 

[CoiL]

Most likely it is oscillating (and most likely in MHz range, so will not be audible).
Interesting side-effect of oscillating opamp is that it effectively biases it in class-A operation, giving intensity of sound (and power consumption/heat).
Sorry, I forgot where you are using it and in what stage, if it's output stage adding series resistors may help, also adding capacitors in feedback loop or small bypass caps on power supplies may help too (as some general directions towards fixing the issue).

I`m using it as DAC differential opamp in Aune T1. Can I do something about it oscillating and overheating there?
OPA1692 have been running some hours now and it isn`t even warm in that location.

 

[Ivan TT]

Can I do something about it oscillating and overheating there?

Is it the one on the main PCB or on the daughter card with DIP gain switches?
If the latter, increase gain, decrease volume.
If the former, adding 1nF film caps in parallel to feedback resistors and those between the inverted input and to the ground may fix it.
But I would not bother, TBH.
ЗЫ: Ah, double check solder joints/connections on all opamp pins, just fixed a DAC/AMP earlier this week that had dodgy soldering (done by your's truly lol) and was oscillating like crazy (as it should have)

 

[CoiL]

Is it the one on the main PCB or on the daughter card with DIP gain switches?
If the latter, increase gain, decrease volume.
If the former, adding 1nF film caps in parallel to feedback resistors and those between the inverted input and to the ground may fix it.
But I would not bother, TBH.
ЗЫ: Ah, double check solder joints/connections on all opamp pins, just fixed a DAC/AMP earlier this week that had dodgy soldering (done by your's truly lol) and was oscillating like crazy (as it should have)

It`s on the main PCB but I think I will not bother to "stabilize" it. Pretty happy with OPA1692IDR + OPA2228PA, resolution & layering is very good with this combo and what`s interesting - mids are just amazing and not a bit laid-back nor too intimate "in You face". Also channel separation and soundstage width is expansive and I`m catching some micro-details I haven`t noticed so clearly before.
Tomorrow will try V5i-D too as DAC differential opamp.

Soldering is done nicely and this shouldn`t be cause of LM4562 heating problem.

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

I`m using it as DAC differential opamp in Aune T1. Can I do something about it oscillating and overheating there?
OPA1692 have been running some hours now and it isn`t even warm in that location.

You can try switching the order. It could be overheating because it’s being overpowered by wrong circuitry on a dap or by the other op amp which is leading the oscillation. The slew time (speed) differential between the two amps may be what’s doing it. Although, I doubt it’s the latter and more likely the dap circuitry itself is not up to the task!

Resistance and capacitor would work to slow it down but you’ll certainly need to know how to do with the right calculations. It isn’t wise to brainstorm this with online pics and making educated guesses unless you know what you actually doing and experienced in this area!

I’d take it out before it burns out regardless since it’s being used in a stressful situation. I’ve have experienced burning out op amps trying to be a hero and make it work that in turn were deemed DOA afterwards and made them worthless.

These op amps will work forever if not put in stressful environments, it overheating is a sign it’s on it’s way to becoming worthless I wouldn’t risk it! You’re taking a chance with resistors, caps and trying to match it with data sheets brainstorming hypotheticals with hobbyists.

Update: Generally speaking the manufacturers will have the correct circuitry on the PCB to accompany the EXACT stock Op so the only reasonable way to get it 100% correct is to use a cross reference op amp tool (Ti and Ad have them so do reliable third party sites) for that exact stock op amp replacement which should be a PERFECT match for compatibility.

I’m glad you opted NOT to follow the hobbyist modding with no experience with your exact situation and your exact dap!