1) OPA2228PA - most natural, organic, open, airy, balanced (think of Harman target), large soundstage & "holographic", layered, best imaging, sounding out of those.
It is just so coherent and revealing without being "hollow" or "details in Your face" (like AD8599).
Annoyingly in terms of performance it is hard to beat the LM4562 (or higher end LME variants) in that application especially as they aren't crazy expensive. The actually better options generally cost 20x more.
Um based on this description of the Opa2228PA I’m salivating at the chance to my hands on this one!
In Estonia We Trust: A digital country with Arvo Pärt I’m sold on CoiL’s post!
LOL, it depends on application and design/concept of PCB too! If it sounds great in my hardware, doesn`t mean it certainly sounds so in different gear. And let me remind You that Aune T1 DAC uses SS DAC + tube buffer (Siemens E88CC goldpin "holy grail of tubes") + SS amping. Also I have already done some mods to it. If You have only SS DAC/amp, Your result might be different.
Though, seems that what I was describing about those opamps I tried, matches general opinion about their sound.
Will do some spec research about LM4562 and see if I can order it from local electronics shop (I get all my opamps from there with trusted legit sourcing). So, You guys recommend to try it first instead OPA2134 DAC differential opamp?
Edit: Checked and I can only get LM4562NA/NOPB in DIP-8 package. Is there SQ difference between LM4562MA?
Also, I have V5i-D free for using cuz it didn`t work @ HO - should I try it or is it only good for final output stage?
And unfortunately, OPA1692 is not available from that shop. Geesh, I need to order from Mouser? Don`t want to know how much is shipping cost.
LOL, it depends on application and design/concept of PCB too! If it sounds great in my hardware, doesn`t mean it certainly sounds so in different gear. And let me remind You that Aune T1 DAC uses SS DAC + tube buffer (Siemens E88CC goldpin "holy grail of tubes") + SS amping. Also I have already done some mods to it. If You have only SS DAC/amp, Your result might be different.
Though, seems that what I was describing about those opamps I tried, matches general opinion about their sound.
Will do some spec research about LM4562 and see if I can order it from local electronics shop (I get all my opamps from there with trusted legit sourcing). So, You guys recommend to try it first instead OPA2134 DAC differential opamp?
Edit: Checked and I can only get LM4562NA/NOPB in DIP-8 package. Is there SQ difference between LM4562MA?
Also, I have V5i-D free for using cuz it didn`t work @ HO - should I try it or is it only good for final output stage?
And unfortunately, OPA1692 is not available from that shop. Geesh, I need to order from Mouser? Don`t want to know how much is shipping cost.
Yep, I 100% agree about how the op amp is applied and in what DAC (the quality of circuitry and PCB board)
I highly recommend the opa1656 it’s really incredible despite being a prototype so you would have to order from TI itself. (In the states the shipping is 6.99 if you needed to compare pricing with mouser.)
One caveat though it’s just not natural sounding on its own. If you master it differentially with say the AD8620 or the Op2228PA the world is yours friend!
****
Just got this new F.Audio FA2. It’s a portable music player with an AK4497 Chip.
First impression is that it plays pretty good in stock mode. Unlike Topping many Chi-Fi Shenzhen DIYERS using fake counterfeit inferior parts but it’s claims to have opa1642 and opa1612.
It’s got some major firmware issue playing .dff files (my favorite) that I’m hoping will be solved in updates so I cannot say that I can recommend it to anyone right now!
It would appear the firmware to be plagiarized by Fiios so I’m gonna try to put their firmware on SD and see if I can change it be more stable and fully functional (fingers crossed)
Here’s what the dac looks like inside I’d anyone here wants to make any suggestion as to what op amps they can recommend based on circuitry. (It’s the pic above- as you can see I’m not the savvy with Head-Fi posting Java)
I’ll also copy and paste what the claims are that is in this dac in the Spoiler (which again are most likely counterfeit).
Ugh, I wish Topping would come out with a portable music player their make nice desktop dacs diy that are friendly too! Love them.
Apologies in advance for posting something slightly off topic. I’ll be mindful of this in this thread to other users’ with open questions like mine.
Side note: it’s hard remembering all these damn numbers used in op amps for me as recommendations. lol.
What Problems FA2 Solve
We know that the current output stage of a general amplifier consists of two amplification lines: one line handles the negative (negative half cycle) output signal, and the other tube processes the positive polarity (positive half cycle) output signal. This can minimize the quiescent current, but to drive 8~600 ohm headphones, it must have a large amplitude of voltage and current; there are 4 or 8 tube portable players on the market, but not working in Class A,There may be some distortion, called cross distortion. It appears at or near the zero crossing of the output signal. If the two branches of the circuit do not match exactly, crossover distortion often occurs;
FA2 completely solved the above two problems and shared the circuit architecture: the digital receiver of FA2 adopts AK4497EQ DAC Chip, IV - Ti(BB) OPA1632-Fully Differential I/O Audio Amplifierr; OP adopts OPA1612 (bipolar-input operational amplifiers-completely independent circuitry for lowest crosstalk and freedom from interactions between channels, even when overdriven or overloaded.), Toshiba 8-pair tube current amplification; among them, OP level (voltage, current amplification stage) adopts differential balanced output and works in Class A state; From DAC output to Toshiba 8-tube full direct coupling mode, ensuring high fidelity, High signal-to-noise ratio (FA1 signal-to-noise ratio (121db)), good dynamics without distortion; with good headphones, experience music playback in depth;
LOL, it depends on application and design/concept of PCB too! If it sounds great in my hardware, doesn`t mean it certainly sounds so in different gear. And let me remind You that Aune T1 DAC uses SS DAC + tube buffer (Siemens E88CC goldpin "holy grail of tubes") + SS amping. Also I have already done some mods to it. If You have only SS DAC/amp, Your result might be different.
Though, seems that what I was describing about those opamps I tried, matches general opinion about their sound.
Will do some spec research about LM4562 and see if I can order it from local electronics shop (I get all my opamps from there with trusted legit sourcing). So, You guys recommend to try it first instead OPA2134 DAC differential opamp?
Edit: Checked and I can only get LM4562NA/NOPB in DIP-8 package. Is there SQ difference between LM4562MA?
Also, I have V5i-D free for using cuz it didn`t work @ HO - should I try it or is it only good for final output stage?
And unfortunately, OPA1692 is not available from that shop. Geesh, I need to order from Mouser? Don`t want to know how much is shipping cost.
For that application the LM4562 has a moderate advantage in terms of performance on paper - the reason I said annoyingly is that I tend to find the LM4562 introduces a bit of a clinical nature to the sound while the OPA2134 is warmer (which may or may not manifest depending on your design) but it is hard to beat it for performance.
I'm not aware of any differences sonically between the NA and MA.
The 1692 is only available in SSOP IIRC or atleast a similar very small form factor which makes it a pain to use for DIY - meaning it needs soldering to an adaptor and not just a regular SOIC->DIP one.
For that application the LM4562 has a moderate advantage in terms of performance on paper - the reason I said annoyingly is that I tend to find the LM4562 introduces a bit of a clinical nature to the sound while the OPA2134 is warmer (which may or may not manifest depending on your design) but it is hard to beat it for performance.
I'm not aware of any differences sonically between the NA and MA.
The 1692 is only available in SSOP IIRC or atleast a similar very small form factor which makes it a pain to use for DIY - meaning it needs soldering to an adaptor and not just a regular SOIC->DIP one.
Makes total sense about the “clinical nature” vs being “warmer” almost analogue in description sonically than what’s on paper. It’s for these reasons I could never get into the opa1622 despite its gloried spec sheet. I respect performance as an achievement just not my kind of sound so I get that frustration of wanting to ”beat” LM4562 in this competitive nature of spec sheets. The question should be asking for what it means as a placebo effect what if you just trusted your ears and then go to spec sheets later as a second impression (as a matter fact).
If the 1692 package has been out for a while shouldn't be hard to find an adapter if you have space to put it into your rig?!
It isn't hard to find - but VSSOP is not DIY friendly unless you have a hot air station or a very steady hand. Looks like since I bought they've released an SOIC version however - showing up as a new product on mouser.
It isn't hard to find - but VSSOP is not DIY friendly unless you have a hot air station or a very steady hand. Looks like since I bought they've released an SOIC version however - showing up as a new product on mouser.
For that application the LM4562 has a moderate advantage in terms of performance on paper - the reason I said annoyingly is that I tend to find the LM4562 introduces a bit of a clinical nature to the sound while the OPA2134 is warmer (which may or may not manifest depending on your design) but it is hard to beat it for performance.
Clinical is what I do not want! But maybe paired with OPA2228 it is more "forgiving"?
Actually, when thinking about it, I do not wish to change current setup (OPA2134 + OPA2228) sound signature but want to test if SQ can be improved.
Arrow.com has it as well its free shipping depending on where you live if they will ship it to you! Anywhere near Russia is almost always a huge no, no even for Mouser from US distributors; it’s against the law!
I live in Estonia which has border with Russia. Idk what the heck You are talking about as we don`t live in past anymore. Never had issue with Mouser (but shipping cost can be absurd sometimes).
Just paid & placed order for LM4562MAXNOPB and OPA1692IDR from Arrow for 3.93$ with free shipping!
Try arrow.com they have free shipping, but only allow purchases from some countries.
It’s a bit tricky to solder due to form-factor and you need appropriate pcb adaptor (Apparently there’s SOIC8 out there too, nice! I had to solder MSOP, that was fun!). It has “in-house” BB sound, maybe a bit cleaner/less coloured version of 16x2 family.
Compared to 2228 it does not have “shimmer” if you know what I mean? but kind of moves it in midrange, not in as coloured way as older soundplus designs do, but still noticeable.
Try arrow.com they have free shipping, but only allow purchases from some countries.
It’s a bit tricky to solder due to form-factor and you need appropriate pcb adaptor (Apparently there’s SOIC8 out there too, nice! I had to solder MSOP, that was fun!). It has “in-house” BB sound, maybe a bit cleaner/less coloured version of 16x2 family.
Compared to 2228 it does not have “shimmer” if you know what I mean? but kind of moves it in midrange, not in as coloured way as older soundplus designs do, but still noticeable.
I’ve noticed that you are fond of Siemens 88cc golf pin tube amps what’s the difference between solid state vs Tube? Not a lot of people use them anymore so I’m alway fascinating by those that still do!
Saw this PAG 2310 implemented in a design and was intrigued. It’s 16 pin volume control for op ams that can have software written for it. The dap had like 4 amps on it. This idea of being about to control volume on individual amps in a DAPs and software seems like a pipe dream. Wish I took a pic of it.
I’ve noticed that you are fond of Siemens 88cc golf pin tube amps what’s the difference between solid state vs Tube? Not a lot of people use them anymore
It`s just the best tube I have and it is even called "holy grail" among 6922/E88CC/CCa tubes: https://www.tubemuseum.org/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SH_E88CC-1965
I have 5 of them: https://cdn.head-fi.org/g/5690299_l.jpg You don`t want to know how much they actually cost now
About difference between solid-state and tube, don`t know how to comment as my gear is tube buffered SS. I don`t have pure tube amp or dac utilizing their potential 100%.
Btw, lot of ppl in audiophile community use tubes.
Clinical is what I do not want! But maybe paired with OPA2228 it is more "forgiving"?
Actually, when thinking about it, I do not wish to change current setup (OPA2134 + OPA2228) sound signature but want to test if SQ can be improved.
Might be worth trying the 2227 in place of the 2134 - IMO it is basically an OPA213x with better sound quality, better bass and just generally more involved in the music than the 213x opamps - it is at best like a cousin to the 2228 though sonically IMO but probably not an issue in a differential stage.
Unfortunately it is probably a case of trying a few different opamps and see what works for you with the circuit you are using. You might be happy with the OPA1692 in that position as I found it a good combination with the OPA2209 (not tried with the 2228 yet).
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