nc8000
Headphoneus Supremus
You are not bypassing the Sony dac, that is not possible to do. The first thing that happens on the analog in is that the signal is converted to digital.
The Official Sony TA-ZH1ES Hi-Res Headphone Amplifier (Live From IFA 2016)
- Thread starter thatonenoob
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Which is a shame, the ADC in the unit is pretty good but you can’t use it to record anything
solid12345
Head-Fier
Actually I knew this but has forgotten. Regardless I still seem to get a clearer, more etched signal with the Qutest than going straight in with USB…logically the cleanest should be sending the source direct digital but doesn’t work out that way to my ears.
You can still get a different sound (ie, the sound of another DAC) by using the analog out of that dac and using the analog in. It gets redigitized because of how the amp is designed, (The entire S-Master circuit) but that is fine, it doesn't mean it will lose the character of the analog source completely (although it will change it - in the case of Chord warming things up a lot). I suggest re-digitizing analog sources to DSD 11.2 for best results. It does behave like an amp still, ie, you can't apply any of the DSEE filters or DC Phase Linearizer this way as it is bypassing part of the internal circuitry.
Yes, it's not a pure analog pass-through, but don't let it stop you. I usually use it in combo with my Hugo2 and enjoy it. I spent a lot of time handwringing that this was "not clean" but this machine is designed to do it this way and it sounds great. Use your ears sometimes over technical specs or what you think you "should do" from dogma, IMO.
I would suggest using the 3V line level output for best results on the Chord device as well. I assume the Qutest has this. it is a special mode that can be activated on Hugo2. That is also something that is non-standard (higher than normal 2V) but yields great results.
I've been using the TA-ZH1ES with this configuration for many years, no issues. the only thing is the display 11.2 Mhz > 11.2 Mhz is a little weird. It "reads" like you're getting a DSD signal from the Hugo over the RCAs. but that's clearly not what's happening. Anyway, I guess they can't display Analog > 11.2 Mhz out of a quirk of the display.
One advantage of the Hugo2 is it has it's own headphone amp so I can compare it's "pure sound" vs with the TA. With the TA is much more enjoyable IMO, although I use both from time to time, usually when I'm using the Hugo2 in bed. It's a better DAC imo, although the TA-ZH1ES is no slouch -it's just more relaxed and a different, sony house sound vibe.
Think of it this way if you're still concerned about doing this. People often prefer the sound of a boutique, hand made, 5,000 dollar ( or much more) Tube Amp over solid state amps that are much more technically proficient. They sometimes prefer ladder dac technology over sigma delta or custom FPGA designs. So it's not all about what is "technically the best" or "technically the cleanest" when it comes to sound. Is it ? It's just about what sounds good to you.
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I have been reading a lot of crap out there about the TA-ZH1ES. In particular about it not being powerful enough. There is a famous youtube "influencer" who is one of these guys whose basically just a guy like us that started a youtube channel.
In this video he recommends a much cheaper (by 1/20th the price) amp from a Chinese company with multiple "fake" brand names. They use the same "guts" with the same spec sheets and slap different cases and names on it and sell them for under 200 bucks.
He complains the TA doesn't get loud enough. I checked the output of that amp's only SE output he was recommending, and, at least in the configuration any sensible person would use on the TA amp (ie, XLR output, high gain for big planars) the power output was identical. 1.3W x 2 channels at 32 ohms which is more than enough power with about 10 db of headrooom on the TA amp in that configuration.
That kind of thing shocks me. I wonder if he was a.) just using single ended, which admittedly is a bit underpowered on this amp (300mw... not terrible but not good for a desktop amp IMO where people want a bit more power) or b.) the low gain switch. I know that switch can easily be toggled as well. or Maybe c.) he's got hearing loss and needs things really loud.
I don't know why people think they need incredible power requirements for their headphones. I've seen some people suggest Wattages that are beyond the maximum watt capability (tolerance) of the can (it's 5 Watts in the case of an HE1000 for example)
In this video he recommends a much cheaper (by 1/20th the price) amp from a Chinese company with multiple "fake" brand names. They use the same "guts" with the same spec sheets and slap different cases and names on it and sell them for under 200 bucks.
He complains the TA doesn't get loud enough. I checked the output of that amp's only SE output he was recommending, and, at least in the configuration any sensible person would use on the TA amp (ie, XLR output, high gain for big planars) the power output was identical. 1.3W x 2 channels at 32 ohms which is more than enough power with about 10 db of headrooom on the TA amp in that configuration.
That kind of thing shocks me. I wonder if he was a.) just using single ended, which admittedly is a bit underpowered on this amp (300mw... not terrible but not good for a desktop amp IMO where people want a bit more power) or b.) the low gain switch. I know that switch can easily be toggled as well. or Maybe c.) he's got hearing loss and needs things really loud.
I don't know why people think they need incredible power requirements for their headphones. I've seen some people suggest Wattages that are beyond the maximum watt capability (tolerance) of the can (it's 5 Watts in the case of an HE1000 for example)
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solid12345
Head-Fier
Honestly it’s not a big deal as he makes it. Only a handful of headphones do you really need to reach for a more powerful amp, many outside the budget of many people here. In particular the Susvara (I don’t have), the DCA Expanse which I DID upgrade to a Ferrum Oor for…the HE6, and maybe the LCD-4 and 5 but even those still get decent enough volume for most rational people who don’t care about going deaf at 60 like me.
HE1000 runs fine on single cable, but really superb on balanced btw. All Focals run great. Grados run great. Sennheiser run great. LCD-X from Audeze runs great. Even Beyerdynamic T1 even though it is 300ohms actually runs well too. It’s a few oddball ones really.
The Tazzy was my first high-end headphone amplifier and IMO still the best sounding to me compared to the others I’ve tried. If I need more power it makes a fine preamp.
Yeah that's been my experience as well.
You still listen to the T1 ? That's one I never got a chance to audition. It still hangs in there with newer designs ?
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nc8000
Headphoneus Supremus
I had the HE6 when I got the TA and while it certainly could get loud enough on balanced high gain, I didn’t feel it was driven to it’s best from the TA
solid12345
Head-Fier
Yes I should stress there is a difference between volume and energy. Like my DCA Expanse got typical room-sound level on my TA, it’s enough volume to listen to an hour of music working on spreadsheets or whatever and feel satisfied, but it had no dynamics, no oomph, no toe tapping to it. That extra shot of energy is what it takes to bring out the rich bass and ear melting highs of some of these specific headphones.
solid12345
Head-Fier
Absolutely, I think it deserves to sit alongside the stalwart classics like the HD600 or HD800 on the Sennheiser side that are just timeless. V2 is similar but a little bassier while v1 is more bright-neutral, v3 is a mess though just muddy and veiled.
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To be fair the HE6 is a notoriously inefficient headphone. I have no problem with HE1000 series headphones or the Arya for example.
The Hifiman HE6 right? Its not really efficient but its not that bad either.
The TA-ZH1ES should be easily capable in driving it up to 113db which is, i would say, loud enough.
Even the Walkman can bring them up to 103db.
I think really insane hard to drive Headphones don't really exist. Some people just feel uneasy with cranking up the volume but as long its loud enough, its loud enough. Some Headphones blow your eardrums out at 70/120, others need 115/120. But you can still blow your eardrum out so there is no issue imho
The TA-ZH1ES should be easily capable in driving it up to 113db which is, i would say, loud enough.
Even the Walkman can bring them up to 103db.
I think really insane hard to drive Headphones don't really exist. Some people just feel uneasy with cranking up the volume but as long its loud enough, its loud enough. Some Headphones blow your eardrums out at 70/120, others need 115/120. But you can still blow your eardrum out so there is no issue imho
nc8000
Headphoneus Supremus
Yes the TA can drive the HE6 loud enough but it does not at all sound to it’s full potential from the TA. Loud enough is not the same as driven to it’s best, there is much more than just volume to that
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I am surprised to hear that, especially because imho the HE6 don't have much potential to begin with. Its an very boring and mediocre pair of Headphones. Literally every Headphone in its price class, Dynamic Drivers and Planar Magnet, beat it easily.
Its okayish, nothing bad but nothing outstanding either. They just do their job.
The TA-ZH1ES can drive the LCD-5, Meze Empyrean, Final D8000 and others easily to their full potential and easily outperform much more powerfull amps and they have much higher requirements than the HE6. So if the TA-ZH1ES can't drive the HE6 to their potential, i don't know what can.
Its okayish, nothing bad but nothing outstanding either. They just do their job.
The TA-ZH1ES can drive the LCD-5, Meze Empyrean, Final D8000 and others easily to their full potential and easily outperform much more powerfull amps and they have much higher requirements than the HE6. So if the TA-ZH1ES can't drive the HE6 to their potential, i don't know what can.
nc8000
Headphoneus Supremus
I had it with the RudiStor RPX-100 quad mono balanced amp and it drove the HE6 much better than the TA but this was 6-7 years ago and at that time the HE6 was considered one of the absolutely best open headphones when driven properly (it was often driven with speaker amps from the speaker outputs) and I liked it a lot but could not keep it as it is very rare I can use an open phone so I sold it when I got the MDR-Z1R together with the TA. I have essentially not listened to an open phone since then, actually no other full size open or closed as I’m perfectly happy with the sound of the 2 Z1R
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