[WNBC]

I will get around to a simple direct USB input into TA-Z.  I've heard enough poor USB implementations over the years that some help is usually needed.  I think we can all name some high end DACs that benefit from a DDC or bridge.  Same goes for USB vs Coaxial input.  I haven't come across many DACs with USB input sounding better than coaxial.  Well, maybe DACs in the price range of "reasonable".  
 
Maybe the TA-Z will prove that it's USB input is on par with other inputs.  It could very well be that straight USB input sounds best with the Sony.  I think that is this weekend's challenge.  I'm just moving backwards from complex to simple         
 
 
Quote:

 
Yeah... you definately have to be careful how complicated your audio reproduction chain can get. I really do think less is more in these types of cases. 
 
But... I've seen some wild setups and people swear it sounds great so...who am I to judge. 
 
Everyone wants to use the equipment they always liked with other devices, but synergy is a real thing and well... yeah. 

 

[tradyblix]

I want to clarify a statement I made earlier about mobile devices and this amp. What I said only applies to iphones. Sony's series of walkmans that use the connector are able to output hi-res audio, as are some android devices. So those should be better quality than Apple's output. In particular the WM1Z and WM1A as well as the earlier device, I forget it's name atm. NX2 or something. 

 

[tradyblix]

I feel like every time I pick new equipment up or upgrade, I learn a little bit more and that sometimes change the beliefs and assumptions I'd had. 

I was listening to the ZH1 tonight with the HD700s, a much maligned pair of headphones, in balanced mode.

I'd previously heard these headphones on the PHA-3 and they left me a little cold. They were sterile, almost TOO sibiliant in the highs and quite annoying on certain tracks. They still sounded good to me. Good enough to know they were better than the 600 even. 

But listening to them on the ZH1, they sound so different. Much better. I might even prefer them to the 800 in some ways like bass response. It really got me thinking how important equipment synergy really is to your listening enjoyment. 

 

[Whitigir]

Yes, synergy is everything....and TA does excellent with anything more neutral and balanced like Utopia

 

[zxathlon]

Has it been released in US? Where to buy it?

 

[HiFiGuy528]

Has it been released in US? Where to buy it?

 
Woo Audio has all the Signature Series products. Email info@wooaudio.com 

 

[HiFiGuy528]

I am trying to figure out why is this. I have Westone W80 which is a 5 Ohms BA so the "other regions" ZH1es would 'technically' be a better pairing.
 
For US Region: The impedance of headphones corresponds to 12-600 ohm.

For Other Regions: The impedance of headphones corresponds to 8-600 ohm.
 

 

[TSAVJason]

I am trying to figure out why is this. I have Westone W80 which is a 5 Ohms BA so the "other regions" ZH1es would 'technically' be a better pairing.

For US Region: The impedance of headphones corresponds to 12-600 ohm.

For Other Regions: The impedance of headphones corresponds to 8-600 ohm.

So does the store that loaned a The ES amp for your review. The Source AV. We don't quite understand this either.

 

[HiFiGuy528]

So does the store that loaned a The ES amp for your review. The Source AV.

 
That store is awesome! 

 

 

[TSAVJason]

Has it been released in US? Where to buy it?

Released Dec 19th 2016 @TheSourceAV and we still keep have plenty of them.

 

[Whitigir]

Hmm by that topology figure, the only places where you can take a pre-amp output is after the low-pass filter (1), or at the output where the headphones are shown (2), but in the latter configuration, the gain of the amplifiers would be 1x. Regardless of whether the pre-amp output is taken at location (1) or (2), the sound is exactly the same. I would imagine that (1) cannot source a lot of current, which is ok, as long as the pre-amp connects to a high impedance load, which is always the case. If it is true that the pre-amp output is taken from (1), the sound cannot be worse than the headphone output.

The figure doesn't tell us more than the one on the US Sony page. The analog amp is a correction amp:
The signal from the digital amp contains the Signal + Error. The error is distortion created by connecting a load to the output of the amplifier. The analog amplifier, is a difference amplifier that takes the input of the digital amp (Signal + Error) and the (pre-amp) Signal after the low pass. The output of that amplifier would be (Signal+Error-Signal) = Error.
Would that mean that the Error is output on L- and R-? and Signal+Error on L+ and R+, I'm not sure of that as that would mean the correction amp should be able to drive headphones.

I could be wrong, and I only speculate.


The way I see it I see that class D and digital processing inevitably invite "noises", and then Sony came up with the idea to get this signal and have it processed by "analog amplification" for generating and filtering on the Negative and return line. In this senses, the "noises" were generated to stay reversed in the exact frequency as the "noises" from the class D amplification. Then, feeding this negative return line into the final processing, the "negative cancel out the positive noises" which results in the "error corrections" that Sony mentioned.

This noises is not just the floor noises, but also the errors even from the digital sources itself as well. Therefore, Sony called it the "error corrections"

The engineers however, admitted that he discovered this by an accident though .

This is the reason why I really want to try the headphones out as "pre-amp" into any dedicated amp and see how it fair

 

[tradyblix]

That's interesting. I guess it's possible, I mean doing some reading on this online it seems it's only the other way that is a bad idea, and this way (headphone out used as pre-amp) is less of a problem.
 
I don't have any other equipment atm that requires a balanced in tho - but if someone out there does and has access to this amp, I'd be interested to know if that works or not
 
This is one of the blackest noise floors I've heard from a device tho. 

 

[Daroid]

I could be wrong, and I only speculate.


The way I see it I see that class D and digital processing inevitably invite "noises", and then Sony came up with the idea to get this signal and have it processed by "analog amplification" for generating and filtering on the Negative and return line. In this senses, the "noises" were generated to stay reversed in the exact frequency as the "noises" from the class D amplification. Then, feeding this negative return line into the final processing, the "negative cancel out the positive noises" which results in the "error corrections" that Sony mentioned.

This noises is not just the floor noises, but also the errors even from the digital sources itself as well. Therefore, Sony called it the "error corrections"

The engineers however, admitted that he discovered this by an accident though

.

This is the reason why I really want to try the headphones out as "pre-amp" into any dedicated amp and see how it fair

 
I think we have more or less the same interpretation of this thing actually. The noise/errors in class D is due to switching, which cannot be performed completely well, since a square wave requires infinite bandwidth and it becomes worse when the transistors sees a load. And the noise generated to stay reverse automatically happens when inverting the signal as it occurs on the inverting input on a simple op-amp difference amplifier. But how they keep phase and amplitude under control between both amplifiers, and how they made an ultra-ultra-low-noise analog amplifier is ingenious, accident or not

.
 
Errors on digital sources cannot be corrected once received as corrupted, unless some sort of forward-error correction is supplied in the protocol, which is not the case as I understand it with SPDIF.
 
Not sure what would happen when you connect what corresponds to a very high impedance load on the headphone output - it will probably be okay.
 

  I have to say Project Ember sounds pretty damn good out of the Pre Out. I am using a Telefunken 12AX7 with it. 
 

 
Excellent, thanks for testing that out!

I just can't wait until my ZH1 arrives.

 

[Paraducks]

  I read a great review of the COS engineering H1 at sixmoons, he compares it to a Goldmund HDA signature and qualitywise iirc. Just because of the 1sec buffer i think it wont work out for films/gaming.

Hello guy, I have the COS H1. If you want to play games or watch movies, just switch off the button of buffer.
 
I don't have Z1R, yet COS H1 works well with my ATH L3000 & SONY Z7. The COS H1 has very clear and bright sound. Perhaps it will go well with Z1R.

 

[Bren Arden]

K tyvm for the info. I have a Violectric v850 and plan to buy Violectric V280 to combine it with. But i can always sell the dac and go for all in one like tazies  or COS h1. XD