[AppleheadMay]

 
Thank you for your answer. I ask this, while it seems that the Audeze LCD2 pre fazor match very well with the amp and the LCD2 is notoriously difficult to drive,

 
 
Never tried it with a planar though in the short time I had the amp.
I did like its sound signature: detailed, smooth and clean without being bright, a hint of warmth actually.

 

[purk]

  U could always look into other dac-amp combos such as: RME-Adi2 pro, Grace designs m920, COS Engineering H2, Benchmark Media DAC3 HGC, Antelope Audio Zodiac, Lynx Studio Hilo, Audio-GD master 11/NOS11, Ifi audio PRO IDSD, Goldmund HDA, Questyle CMA800i/600i etc...  Just to provide a few alternatives u might or might not yet know.

Grace is know more about their DAC rather than the head amp.  Same can be said with the Benchmark DAC3 HGC and Antelope Audio Zodiac stuff.  The CMA600i was a mixed bag for me and it isn't the same level as the ZH1ES IMO. The CMA800i is a very nice unit but will not better the ZH1ES's headphone output unless you run a mono-block system.  

 

[Sarnia]

   
 
Most of my headphones I can sit between -15.0db and -1 db and it is plenty loud for me on high gain. Especially on balanced where you are getting 1.2 w to each channel. But there's not a ton of additional headroom like say you might find on a tube amp. I could see how some might want it louder. 

 
What headphones are you using?
 
With my Hifiman HE1000v2s I'm generally at -35 to +40db on high gain, with a max of -30db. I went to -25db last night and found it too loud to be enjoyable. These seem to be the hardest to drive headphones I've had.
 
The HD800S I was generally between -35 and -45db on high gain. The Z1Rs I was the same range but on low gain.
 
I can't imagine taking any of those to anywhere near -15 and -1db, I'd be seriously concerned about damaging my hearing.

 

[tradyblix]

The ones you see in my sig basically. 
 
I have a pair of 600s right now in balanced at -12db. 
 
Like I said - it depends on the source. Everyone's hearing sensitivity is different too.
 
I'm just agreeing with the general sentiments that it could go louder. You are are definatley listening at low levels. Which is good ! I'm more comfortable about 10dbs higher than that in the settings from -20 and up. 
 
Btw - I have problems with Tidal with all 3 of my macs. It has a hard time talking to the dac properly. 
 
2 Sierra's and One Yosemite, fresh installs of Tidal on all of them. 

It's like it fails to be able to open a stream. If I have iTunes playing already through it and then I start Tidal, it will play through it, at least until the track ends or I try to seek lol. I hope they get this fixed, since I want to use Tidal. Tidal has a lot of other bugs tho; its' always crashing (the mac client) so I hope they'll fix it. It's the first time I've had problems like this with it. In the meantime I'm going back to iTunes.

 

[HiFiGuy528]

The TA-ZH1ES has very very low noise floor even at HIGH gain. It is OK to drive it at full throttle to achieve your desired listening level. 
 

 

[Whitigir]

That is true about the TA noise floor. I can't help but wonder if it can be made as a good pre-amp from it headphones out

 

[WNBC]

Sir, you are quite right!
 
Day 1:  Mac > Amarra > iFi iUSB3.0 > USB > TA > ZR1 (unbalanced)
Day 2:  Mac > Amarra > Intona > SU-1 > Coaxial RCA > TA > ZR1 (unbalanced) and HD800S (balanced)
 
Wow, what a difference a day makes.  With the Day 1 setup I was not hearing the magic everyone was talking about with the combo.  I had good success with the iUSB3.0 + iMicro iDSD BL + Z1R so I figured it would be fine with the TA-Z.  The end result was a warm, laid back presentation.  Bass was elevated and mids pushed back.  
 
However, with the SU-1 DDC in play and using the Coaxial input, the TA-Z really shined.  It wasn't giving me extra warmth and the body was back into the music, mids no longer pushed back.  Plenty of detail and transparency.  No warm blanket any more.  I really like the SU-1 with my other DACs so I think it will have it's place with the Sony DAC/amp.   
 
The TA-Z does in fact sound great with the HD 800 S.     
 
 
 
Quote:

I think you'll like the support the ES amplifier gives the 800. Of course the source is important.

 

[Daroid]

That is true about the TA noise floor. I can't help but wonder if it can be made as a good pre-amp from it headphones out

Isn't that the purpose of the pre-out RCAs on the back? Or is there any sonic difference between them? Just curious as I have no clue

 

[Whitigir]

Isn't that the purpose of the pre-out RCAs on the back? Or is there any sonic difference between them? Just curious as I have no clue

RCA is single ended while the headphones are balanced with the unique hybrid circuitry analog-class D amp

 

[Daroid]

RCA is single ended while the headphones are balanced with the unique hybrid circuitry analog-class D amp

Single-ended of course. I couldn't find anywhere where it states where pre-out is taken in the chain. Directly after the S-master stage? Anyone know for certain?

 

[tradyblix]

We should probably get in the habit of calling this the ZH1 and not the TA which is shared by a group of other devices in Sony's line or ES, which stands for elevated standard. ZH1 is the actual model identifier. 
 
The preamp out must come ..... anyone read japanese ? 

 

[tradyblix]

Day 1:  Mac > Amarra > iFi iUSB3.0 > USB > TA > ZR1 (unbalanced)
Day 2:  Mac > Amarra > Intona > SU-1 > Coaxial RCA > TA > ZR1 (unbalanced) and HD800S (balanced)

 
Yeah... you definately have to be careful how complicated your audio reproduction chain can get. I really do think less is more in these types of cases. 
 
But... I've seen some wild setups and people swear it sounds great so...who am I to judge. 
 
Everyone wants to use the equipment they always liked with other devices, but synergy is a real thing and well... yeah. 

 

[Daroid]

Hmm by that topology figure, the only places where you can take a pre-amp output is after the low-pass filter (1), or at the output where the headphones are shown (2), but in the latter configuration, the gain of the amplifiers would be 1x. Regardless of whether the pre-amp output is taken at location (1) or (2), the sound is exactly the same. I would imagine that (1) cannot source a lot of current, which is ok, as long as the pre-amp connects to a high impedance load, which is always the case. If it is true that the pre-amp output is taken from (1), the sound cannot be worse than the headphone output.
 
The figure doesn't tell us more than the one on the US Sony page. The analog amp is a correction amp:
The signal from the digital amp contains the Signal + Error. The error is distortion created by connecting a load to the output of the amplifier. The analog amplifier, is a difference amplifier that takes the input of the digital amp (Signal + Error) and the (pre-amp) Signal after the low pass. The output of that amplifier would be (Signal+Error-Signal) = Error.
Would that mean that the Error is output on L- and R-? and Signal+Error on L+ and R+, I'm not sure of that as that would mean the correction amp should be able to drive headphones.

 

[tradyblix]

I have to say Project Ember sounds pretty damn good out of the Pre Out. I am using a Telefunken 12AX7 with it. 
 
So for me the ZH1 really works well as a dac. I still have all the capabilities just an alternate amp stage, one I can use Project Kameleon with (Headphone filter). 
 
I have to say tho that as good as it is, the onboard amp is still a little better than it. There's a little more tube harmonics on the Ember but it loses out on some body. 
 
Mac > iTunes/Tidal > AQ Jitterbug > AQ Evergreen USB B > ZH1ES > AQ Tower > Project Kameleon > AQ Tower > Project Ember > Single Ended > Headphone or 
Mac > iTunes/Tidal > AQ Jitterbug > AQ Evergreen USB B > ZH1ES > Balanced > Headphone
 
I'm a pretty happy camper. 

 

[tradyblix]

   
 
Never tried it with a planar though in the short time I had the amp.
I did like its sound signature: detailed, smooth and clean without being bright, a hint of warmth actually.

 
This amp doesn't have any problems driving the LCD-2 in balanced mode. I have all the volume I need at -10.0 db and I'm pretty deaf. *Note: High gain is always on. 
 
I can def tell you it's a good match at this point. Although the HD800 has more detail, I really think the LCD2 is a better headphone... Audeze has been maligned alot and maybe I got a "good" pair, I dunno, but it you know, you have friggin bass, real bass on the LCD2 where the 800 is sometimes quite thin and sterile. Maybe I should mod it I dunno. I don't like modding headphones, it changes the sound too much. The 800s is not worth 600 bucks more IMO. Not now the Z1R and Utopia exist. 
 
*tries single ended using the 4 conductor Audeze standard cable*.
 
Wow. yeah. Man balanced sounds better, but there's still quite a bit of volume here. more than enough IMO. I could not listen at levels above say -5.0db that would be unpleasant.