[kurochin]

  I have the HE-1000 and am not pleased with the craftsmanship.  Plus Sony doesn't roll out revisions one after another.

Out of curiosity, how frequent are revisions for Hifiman products? They can't possibly be as bad as A&K, can they? I find that company's release cycle downright offensive.
 
 

 

[purk]

  Yeah, as I posted in the hek thread, those are the problems most startup headphone companies are having. 

They are not a startup company.  They have been around since 2009 I think.

 

[kurochin]

  They are not a startup company.  They have been around since 2009 I think.

Well, Audeze have been around a year longer than that and their products still feel like they're assembled in a garden shed.
 
Having said that, Sony's reliability record in my household - for the more "general" consumer electronic stuff - isn't exactly pristine either.

 

[purk]

Originally Posted by kurochin /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Well, Audeze have been around a year longer than that and their products still feel like they're assembled in a garden shed.
 
Having said that, Sony's reliability record in my household - for the more "general" consumer electronic stuff - isn't exactly pristine either.
 

Well, the HE-1000 is barely a 1.5 years old.  Now they are releasing the HE-1000 V2 to address some fit & finished issues including new ear pads and such.  A $3000 product should not need a revision number next to it.  Hell there should be an upgrade program for the original HE-1000 with a small fees honestly.  Can you guys imagine what the V2 does to the V1 used market value?  I will never buy anything form them again and I didn't even pay a full price for it.
 
Sony has much better track record than  Hifiman.   You just can't compare the craftsmanship between their top of the line products.  I mean my Qualia and R10 are still pristine conditions after these many years.  HE1000 just look unpolished IMO.  BTW, this has nothing to do with the sound quality.

 

[yukihasi]

  They are not a startup company.  They have been around since 2009 I think.

Still pretty new compared to other headphone companies (audio technica, beyer, sennheiser, to name a few) or general electronic companies who had made high end headphones(Sony, pioneer, etc). Not justifying anything, just saying they are common for the new comers, maybe still need some time for them to get there. 
 
BTW, how time flies...still remembered their 801 player as the "new thing", just realized it's quite a while ago now. 

 

[beowulf]

  Sony has much better track record than  Hifiman.   You just can't compare the craftsmanship between their top of the line products.  I mean my Qualia and R10 are still pristine conditions after these many years.  HE1000 just look unpolished IMO.  BTW, this has nothing to do with the sound quality.

 
It depends on product lines really. If we're looking at generic Sony products mass pumped out of some factory in a country with cheap labor then it's not going to be as brillian as something hand-assembled in Japan and using quality components. I expect the Z1R to be impeccable, but we'll see. And I have the same impression of Hifiman btw.

 

[purk]

   
It depends on product lines really. If we're looking at generic Sony products mass pumped out of some factory in a country with cheap labor then it's not going to be as brillian as something hand-assembled in Japan and using quality components. I expect the Z1R to be impeccable, but we'll see. And I have the same impression of Hifiman btw.

But we are talking about mid to highend flagship headphones.  The Z7 may not be well liked by everyone but everyone sure love the craftsmanship and comfort factor on that headphones.  I don't expect anything less than amazing build quality from Sony for their flagship items but I do questions their recent choice of voicing headphones.  Seem to be very bassy compared to previous generations.  IMO, everybody is having problem with  generic and low end product lines.

 

[The Fed]

   
It depends on product lines really. If we're looking at generic Sony products mass pumped out of some factory in a country with cheap labor then it's not going to be as brillian as something hand-assembled in Japan and using quality components. I expect the Z1R to be impeccable, but we'll see. And I have the same impression of Hifiman btw.

I agree... Sony consumer grade products are built to a price point and have a level of obsolescence built in.
 
But when Sony puts out a TOTL flagship product, they usually design, build and execute their products to a standard few in the industry can match.
 
There are top shelf Sony amps, speakers, CD players and even DACs (DAS-R1) that are 30 and 40 years old that collectors hunt for because of the impeccable engineering and build quality. And Sony flagship headphones of days gone by are viewed by some as Holy Grails of the hobby... Qualia..... R10....
 
Looking at their new digital amp and the Z1R, I tend to think they are built to last.

 

[beowulf]

  Looking at their new digital amp and the Z1R, I tend to think they are built to last.

 
I took a better look at the amp today and although the numbers on paper don't seem impressive (output power, etc) the build quality and choice of components and circuit design might be quite good to justify the cost. Will need a pro review of that tho, I can barely tell a condenser from a resistor.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Craftsmanship is much much higher on the Sony. Though some Hifiman does sound quite a good bit nicer!

So given that, it seems you were saying you would rather pay for craftsmanship over sound quality? Surprising. I also like nice craftsmanship, but I give the nod to sound quality in the end. But these new Z1R do look very nice.

 

[The Fed]

   
I took a better look at the amp today and although the numbers on paper don't seem impressive (output power, etc) the build quality and choice of components and circuit design might be quite good to justify the cost. Will need a pro review of that tho, I can barely tell a condenser from a resistor.

And that is often where a lot of the money gets spent that can't be easily quantified.... Down to the quality of the PCB... number of layers and thickness of traces, grade of resistors and capacitors, premium or custom wound transformers etc...
 
Sony doesn't pull punches on flagships (IMHO). I tend to think that the 'everlast build' factor can get lost sometimes when the market is constantly rattling consumer cages to "upgrade, upgrade update!"

 

[purk]

  So given that, it seems you were saying you would rather pay for craftsmanship over sound quality? Surprising. I also like nice craftsmanship, but I give the nod to sound quality in the end. But these new Z1R do look very nice.

No, I want both and it can be done.  However, it is a pain to see that the Hifiman didn't iron out the issues prior to releasing the $3000 headphones.  Instead of releasing a fix for everybody  they decided to release a MK2 version of the same headphones with a slight tweaked instead.  Imagine you buy the Z1R today only to see a Z1R MK2 later in a year half.  How would that make you feel?   Sennheiser HD800 has a very good build quality as well as sound.  For instance, Stax SR009 is quite exceptional in term of craftsmanship and sound.

 

[Whitigir]

So given that, it seems you were saying you would rather pay for craftsmanship over sound quality? Surprising. I also like nice craftsmanship, but I give the nod to sound quality in the end. But these new Z1R do look very nice.

No, I want both and it can be done.  However, it is a pain to see that the Hifiman didn't iron out the issues prior to releasing the $3000 headphones.  Instead of releasing a fix for everybody  they decided to release a MK2 version of the same headphones with a slight tweaked instead.  Imagine you buy the Z1R today only to see a Z1R MK2 later in a year half.  How would that make you feel?   Sennheiser HD800 has a very good build quality as well as sound.  For instance, Stax SR009 is quite exceptional in term of craftsmanship and sound.

From what I see is that Z7 has superbly performance/build and comfortable its for something $500-700 pricing range. Of course when you starting to compare it to 2-3x it pricing range, it would be 0 competitions. In fact, show me something in this price range that beat the Z7 in these areas. Do not tell me Fostex X-00....not even close in build quality.

 

[grizzlybeast]

The z7 build is unmatched, the sound... Thats another story... It had so much hype before it was released and when people finally heard it... The thread literally died! Only a few people were posting about how they were happy with the sound. I have yet to see so much hype around a product followed by such a drastic lack of interest.

Lots of bass with no solidity, Very odd midrange tonality.

Such a disappointment.

 

[pietcux]

  No, I want both and it can be done.  However, it is a pain to see that the Hifiman didn't iron out the issues prior to releasing the $3000 headphones.  Instead of releasing a fix for everybody  they decided to release a MK2 version of the same headphones with a slight tweaked instead.  Imagine you buy the Z1R today only to see a Z1R MK2 later in a year half.  How would that make you feel?   Sennheiser HD800 has a very good build quality as well as sound.  For instance, Stax SR009 is quite exceptional in term of craftsmanship and sound.

As you seem to be an expert for aged to antique Sony headphones, where do you order new pads if needed, or do you still use the original ones? I saw some old post about the CD3000 and others, where the protein leather pads had already fallen apart in 2004.