[johnjen]

A quick note.
 
There is a group of folks who want/need to explore the scaleability of the HD800.
 
This 'search' can lead to some 'discordant' combinations which can provide screech, in full hi-res definition.
 
Exploring these 'rarefied' extremes usually demands carefull attention to details and selection of ancillary gear.
 
Just say'n is all…
 
JJ
ps also since these are high impedance phones, an OTL tube amp is (or can be) a wonderful mating.
The Bottlehead crack amp (a kit that you assemble) is reputed to be a very good match with 800's and the circuit is about as simple as you can get.
http://bottlehead.com/?product=crack-otl-headphone-amplifier-kit
Just a thought…

 

[Sorrodje]

  A quick note.
 
There is a group of folks who want/need to explore the scaleability of the HD800.
 
This 'search' can lead to some 'discordant' combinations which can provide screech, in full hi-res definition.
 
Exploring these 'rarefied' extremes usually demands carefull attention to details and selection of ancillary gear.
 
Just say'n is all…
 
JJ
ps also since these are high impedance phones, an OTL tube amp is (or can be) a wonderful mating.
The Bottlehead crack amp (a kit that you assemble) is reputed to be a very good match with 800's and the circuit is about as simple as you can get.
http://bottlehead.com/?product=crack-otl-headphone-amplifier-kit
Just a thought…

 
 
Agreed.
 
The point is not to say that a bifrost/Valhalla is the last word. The point is there's no need of an expensive hi end system to enjoy the HD800.

 

[BleaK]

   
 
Agreed.
 
The point is not to say that a bifrost/Valhalla is the last word. The point is there's no need of an expensive hi end system to enjoy the HD800.

 
Exactly! 

 

[Currawong]

  For those interested , I tried an Audiovalve RKV mkII this sunday.  I had read somewhere that this amp was slow, tubey but that's not what My ears said to me. The resul with the HD800 is great, not slow, not muddy. Clear and fast with a great sense of resolution and detail. Slight engaging bass boost and sparkle in the treble . Typical OTL Clarity.  A great match with the HD800 Maybe a bit agressive/fatiguing. In comparison the DNA Sonett is warmer/smoother , less detailed and more forgiving for average recordings.
 
The RKV does not match the DNA sense of intimacy and the textures of voices and acoustic intruments ( Solo Violin, cello, piano reveal clearly this point) . the RKV offers a more precise, sparkling and punchy sound .
 
my 2 cents

 
I owned an RKV MKII for a while and indeed it was a good match with the HD-800s. I had the OPA627 mod in mine. The only downside was that some resolution was lost compared to other amps and the RKV is sensitive to the quality of power supply feeding it, even the power cable. 
 
 

 

  Fixed it for ya'

ahahah ... don't think so. I believe I need to spend much more than 1K per element to really upgrade from my Schiit, so no way  

 
The advantage of the Valhalla is that it is dedicated to high-impedance cans, so it can be better with those than an amp that is a good all-rounder, without having to be expensive IMO. 
 
The next amp up I have from the Valhalla 2 is the Studio Six and, well, yeah, it's better. I have on loan a nice amp with is great with the HD-800s, the Japanese Aurorasound HEADA. It is slightly warm and relaxed without losing detail which makes for a lovely match with the HD-800s and the Hugo as a source. 

 

[Sorrodje]

The Meier Corda Jazz is a great solid state choice too. Similarly priced than the Valhalla and more versatile. I lived with this one and an old dacmagic. I heard it once more time with and audioGD DAC19 DSP and this amp is darn good.
 
@Currawong : I did not feel too much the lack of resolution of the Rkv.  But it was a short run indeed.

 

[johnjen]

   
 
Agreed.
 
The point is not to say that a bifrost/Valhalla is the last word. The point is there's no need of an expensive hi end system to enjoy the HD800.

Yes indeed!
 
But due to this huge degree of scaleability that the 800's allow, there are those who will explore one of these extremes, that being how high is up…? (and I include myself in this group).
 
Because the thing is the 800's are capable of resolution that can astound.
But not everyone wants or needs to 'go there'.
 
This is what I see as why there are sorta 2 camps of 800 users.
 
Which is in and of itself quite a statement, in that a totl headphone can accommodate this diversity of end results, and do so with only a modicum of difficulty (ya gotta pick 'compatible' components, which isn't exactly an unusual requirement).
 
But the camp that explores the upper most regions of the scaleability curve, are usually the ones who BMW (bitch moan & whine) the most.  And you would too, after spending good money and wind up with screech aplenty.
 
JJ

 

 

[knowhatimean]

 

   
 
Agreed.
 
The point is not to say that a bifrost/Valhalla is the last word. The point is there's no need of an expensive hi end system to enjoy the HD800.

Yes indeed!
 
But due to this huge degree of scaleability that the 800's allow, there are those who will explore one of these extremes, that being how high is up…? (and I include myself in this group).
 
Because the thing is the 800's are capable of resolution that can astound.
But not everyone wants or needs to 'go there'.
 
This is what I see as why there are sorta 2 camps of 800 users.
 
Which is in and of itself quite a statement, in that a totl headphone can accommodate this diversity of end results, and do so with only a modicum of difficulty (ya gotta pick 'compatible' components, which isn't exactly an unusual requirement).
 
But the camp that explores the upper most regions of the scaleability curve, are usually the ones who BMW (bitch moan & whine) the most.  And you would too, after spending good money and wind up with screech aplenty.
 
JJ

 

Well, to be totally truthful in a lot of instances a lot of those exploring those "uppermost regions" may have "pockets deep enough" to fund their explorations but not much "insight" as to the necessity of taking a synergistic system building approach !
 
We learn "system building" through our experience in this hobby ! It's a gradual process where we 'should' be learning what works
for us or doesn't. I say 'should' because it's not a certainty that everyone is recognizing these things as they step up the "Upgrade Ladder". The thing that is a real detriment to this process is when you come across "Hi-End Audio" salesmen who are somewhat clueless as to putting together demo music systems that  exhibit a sense of "Scalability & Musicality" while you're listening !
 
On a few occasions lately I've been seriously unimpressed listening to a few setups of equipment that were several times more
expensive than what I listen through, but looking around at these systems I can see where some "choke points" might be developing!
 
Without taking a "system" approach , I don't care how much $$$$ you throw at your equipment if some of it is working "against"
the rest of your setup. & your system should really start "at the wall" if you're serious about having any realistic ability to reach
"Scalabity"!
 
Yup, they may have "BMW" pockets , but they might not have much more than "MP3" knowledge

 

[johnjen]

  Well, to be totally truthful in a lot of instances a lot of those exploring those "uppermost regions" may have "pockets deep enough" to fund their explorations but not much "insight" as to the necessity of taking a synergistic system building approach !
 
snip
 
Yup, they may have "BMW" pockets , but they might not have much more than "MP3" knowledge

Yeah, that certainly is a truism amongst the BBS (big buck spenders) that if they throw $$$$ or $$$$$ at it, they aught to get REAL results…  And undoubtedly they do, and it's just as you mentioned, without the experience it's really hard to know if changes really are improvements, or just changes.
 
Which brings up another subtle but suitable approach to reach those vaunted heights of audio nirvana…
 
Select and keep top quality equipment and tweak (tickle?) it till it sings…
 
This runs counter to the way most explore this hobby but in the long run it is better and cheaper.
The downside to this approach is the $$ required to jump in are steeper and that doesn't cut it when it’s a matter of tunes or no tunes…
 
Which is why maxing out early on the 800's is actually a 'wise move' in my book.  'Cause if they work for you, then you can upgrade the upstream gear at a easier pace and can better afford to wait for killer equipment on the used market.  
That's how I attained my PWD.  
And it scales right along with the 800's, REALLY well.
 
That is if you get infected by what the 800's can really do in another system…
I call this the hook-line-&-sinker approach…
It starts out as an itch or a compulsion to scratch something that you didn't even know was there…
And then it starts to grow…  hahahahahaha
 
JJ 

 

 

[knowhatimean]

It seems like we may have covered this at some point already!
 
The sad unfortunate truth is that most of us are skeptical by nature & even making small (& many times reversible) "explorations" seems to take more effort , than simply spending more for (assumed) improvements.
 
I'm sure you heard of "Brick Wall Filtering", well this is also pretty common "human" condition of many Audio "hobbyists that prevents them from "taking ownership" of reaching their highest level of satisfaction in music listening !
 
Having "sounding boards" like these threads takes away some of the "sting" of listeners "angst" with this or that piece of equipment.
 
It's nice to have a place where you can be one of the guys "shooting the breeze", but sometimes all it takes is a slight "leap of faith" to try things that end up making a huge difference ! Forget that saying "It is what it is" (yeah, i know i used this in another posting this week;It fits the occasion) & you might just amaze yourself at what it "actually" might be !

 

[ruthieandjohn]

  It seems like we may have covered this at some point already!
 
The sad unfortunate truth is that most of us are skeptical by nature & even making small (& many times reversible) explorations seems to take more effort , than simply spending more for (assumed) improvements.
 
I'm sure you heard of "Brick Wall Filtering", well this is also pretty common "human" condition of many Audio "hobbyists that prevents them from "taking ownership" of reaching their highest level of satisfaction in music listening !
 
Having "sounding boards" like these threads takes away some of the "sting" of listeners "angst" with this or that piece of equipment.
 
It's nice to have a place where you can be one of the guys "shooting the breeze", but sometimes all it takes is a slight "leap of faith" to try things that end up making a huge difference ! Forget that saying "It is what it is" (yeah, i know i used this in another posting this week;It fits the occasion) & you might just amaze yourself at what it "actually" might be !

Good points, all!
 
Sometimes we don't make small (& many times reversible) explorations is that we hate the sight of blood; i.e., we don't want to cut into our pristine headphones.  So we keep them as is and indeed spend for (assumed) improvements.
 
Brick wall filtering in electronics is often analogous to blinders in human information intake ("I will NOT consider closed headphones!"), thereby shutting the door to many opportunities for improvement without assessing whether they are better or worse. 
 
One thing that I have learned from is crowd sourcing our collective wisdom to compare headphones.  See the first link in my signature about "2,000 headphones."  There is a lot of information and even more opinion on "head-fi.org;"  with some effort, thanks to spreadsheet and manual data entry and macros, some overall statistics can be teased out.

 

[knowhatimean]

 

  It seems like we may have covered this at some point already!
 
The sad unfortunate truth is that most of us are skeptical by nature & even making small (& many times reversible) explorations seems to take more effort , than simply spending more for (assumed) improvements.
 
I'm sure you heard of "Brick Wall Filtering", well this is also pretty common "human" condition of many Audio "hobbyists that prevents them from "taking ownership" of reaching their highest level of satisfaction in music listening !
 
Having "sounding boards" like these threads takes away some of the "sting" of listeners "angst" with this or that piece of equipment.
 
It's nice to have a place where you can be one of the guys "shooting the breeze", but sometimes all it takes is a slight "leap of faith" to try things that end up making a huge difference ! Forget that saying "It is what it is" (yeah, i know i used this in another posting this week;It fits the occasion) & you might just amaze yourself at what it "actually" might be !

Good points, all!
 
Sometimes we don't make small (& many times reversible) explorations is that we hate the sight of blood; i.e., we don't want to cut into our pristine headphones.  So we keep them as is and indeed spend for (assumed) improvements.
 
Brick wall filtering in electronics is often analogous to blinders in human information intake ("I will NOT consider closed headphones!"), thereby shutting the door to many opportunities for improvement without assessing whether they are better or worse. 
 
One thing that I have learned from is crowd sourcing our collective wisdom to compare headphones.  See the first link in my signature about "2,000 headphones."  There is a lot of information and even more opinion on "head-fi.org;"  with some effort, thanks to spreadsheet and manual data entry and macros, some overall statistics can be teased out.

Well, I'm glad to see that we agree on one of my points at least, but I think that your slightly "skewed" view of what may be involved in "exploring" things would explain  the general wariness of trying things,as you have an "exaggerated" idea of how harm may come to you or your headphones. Looking at things to try goes beyond just  modifying your headphones, but that will allow any other tweaks you try easier to hear.
 
I don't know if there is a "collective wisdom" for finding "Scalability" in the music that you listen to , because everyone places different amounts of importance of which parts they hear that is of greater value to them. It's not about the "headphones" as much as what the headphones allow you to "hear" the "dimensionality"of what is going on in the recording.
 
A lot of the information (most) I see relayed about headphones are "generic terms" that are of little interest to myself as I'm not looking to compare headphones.
 
Simply put we're not talking about having interest in the same processes , as these aren't at all in this particular scenario
 
 
.

 

[skeptic]

  Can the  odac and O2 give me let's say 80% of what real high- end can give? if so , i'll be happy with it for life i think.
That's the most i can spend on amp /Dac.

 
Fraid not, in my opinion.  O2 is just not a great match with hd800 or hd650's for that matter.  I'm not an O2 hater either.  Built my own and later built and added agdr's cool booster board, which reduces offset and distortion, increases transient current, and, along with a dual lme49990 in the gain stage, gives you 10x the slew rate among other benefits, making it sort of a transportable "wire."  Sounds very good and clean with most low ohm phones, sensitive planars, and even dt880's, but it makes Senn's sound thin and a little lifeless  (to my ears, ymmv, yada yada).  Frankly, the unremarkable headphone out on my marantz htr is far more enjoyable to me with hd800's.
 
If a good tube amp is out of your reach for now, I'd take a look at purrin's list of recommended hd800 amps over on chang*.  (Google "best hd800 amps" and see second nonsponsored link).  He has quite a list and nice concise descriptions of what you might expect at various price points.  Vali and mstage are two cheap options that get lots of positive reviews, but I haven't heard either personally.  For a little more, and if you're willing to do some soldering yourself or buy used, the beezar torpedo would be what I would buy in your shoes.  It is a baby parafeed tube amp (like the mainline and L-2), designed by Doug at ECP  who really knows his stuff.  My 2c fwiw.   

 

[Arnotts]

I've been listening to the HD800's for the past few days (along with the LCD-X's and LCD-2's). 
 
It's very interesting how it offers such a different presentation compared to the Audeze headphones, yet all three offer beautiful, high quality sound.
 
It's also very interesting how fantastic the HD800's sound from the Gustard U12 --> M-Stage DAC --> M-Stage amp. I haven't done a proper comparison yet, but it seems like it could be on par with, if not a little bit more musical sounding, than the Gustard X12 + Gustard H10. The Gustard's seem to sound better with the planars, though .

 

[BobJS]

I'm sorry, but after reading the last couple of pages, I can't get this imagery out of my head of a room full of people all simultaneously making "air quotes" at each other, each getting more animated than the previous.  I need to work on my "attention span".

 

[dynarec]

I've had my HD800's for about 2 years now and I've been using them with a Matrix M-Stage amp.  For me, this is end game, I have no reason or desire to upgrade to anything else, I'm happy with the sound, which should be the point right?  Each to their own I guess.   Love them.