[cthomas]

Honestly, I would keep the HD 800 and equalize it. This will make it a genre master, and you'll be surprised about the bass it's capable of. The icing on the cake would be a damping modification.

Ok, so I decided to give your eq setting a try... Holy **** is all I can say! How much better these have been the last few days has amazed me! I actually have bass! And the highs aren't piercing my eardrums! I listened to them for about 5 hours straight yesterday and just about everything sounded great. More musical, more body, more bass then I expected and I still have stunning clarity! I've been told it's not a good idea to eq such headphones but for the life of me I can't figure why?

The only weird thing I've noticed is that certain some (very few) hip-hop songs have severely distorted bass (like a speaker that can't handle the volume) even at low volume... Perhaps just drop the bass in the eq a little?

Anyways. Thanks for the advice JaZZ. Greatly appreciated! I'll probably mod them when warranty is over too. Now I need some headache remedy from my listening session last night.

 

[Hansotek]

Interesting. Might try but I'm afraid it'll sound too warm.

In fact, I think I already didn't get enough sharp treble from my HD800 recently. I'll probably have to buy new DAC next.
Someone here told me about DAC-19 before and I realize you have one. Is it in general a bright sounding DAC?

The DAC-19 is very warm sounding.

 

[JaZZ]

 

Honestly, I would keep the HD 800 and equalize it. This will make it a genre master, and you'll be surprised about the bass it's capable of. The icing on the cake would be a damping modification.

Ok, so I decided to give your eq setting a try... Holy **** is all I can say! How much better these have been the last few days has amazed me! I actually have bass! And the highs aren't piercing my eardrums! I listened to them for about 5 hours straight yesterday and just about everything sounded great. More musical, more body, more bass then I expected and I still have stunning clarity! I've been told it's not a good idea to eq such headphones but for the life of me I can't figure why?

The only weird thing I've noticed is that certain some (very few) hip-hop songs have severely distorted bass (like a speaker that can't handle the volume) even at low volume... Perhaps just drop the bass in the eq a little?

Anyways. Thanks for the advice JaZZ. Greatly appreciated! I'll probably mod them when warranty is over too. Now I need some headache remedy from my listening session last night.

 
Hi cthomas
 
I'm glad it worked for you.

I never could get my HD 800 to distort, so it could very well be your headphone amp lacking the necessary power for hip-hop bass peaks with enhanced low bass. (Yes, in these cases it could be favorable to lower the low-bass increase a bit.)

 

[x RELIC x]

Ok, so I decided to give your eq setting a try... Holy **** is all I can say! How much better these have been the last few days has amazed me! I actually have bass! And the highs aren't piercing my eardrums! I listened to them for about 5 hours straight yesterday and just about everything sounded great. More musical, more body, more bass then I expected and I still have stunning clarity! I've been told it's not a good idea to eq such headphones but for the life of me I can't figure why?

The only weird thing I've noticed is that certain some (very few) hip-hop songs have severely distorted bass (like a speaker that can't handle the volume) even at low volume... Perhaps just drop the bass in the eq a little?

Anyways. Thanks for the advice JaZZ. Greatly appreciated! I'll probably mod them when warranty is over too. Now I need some headache remedy from my listening session last night.

Hi cthomas

I'm glad it worked for you. I never could get my HD 800 to distort, so it could very well be your headphone amp lacking the necessary power for hip-hop bass peaks with enhanced low bass. (Yes, in these cases it could be favorable to lower the low-bass increase a bit.)

Or, try to lower all the sliders in that EQ curve by -4 dB (the max slider adjustment in Jazz's EQ is +4 dB), and compensate by turning up the volume. It just seems to me like the EQ is distorting the output without a digital pre-amp feature to lower the output before distortion.

 

[JaZZ]

Or, try to lower all the sliders in that EQ curve by -4 dB (the max slider adjustment in Jazz's EQ is +4 dB), and compensate by turning up the volume. It just seems to me like the EQ is distorting the output without a digital pre-amp feature to lower the output before distortion.

 
That's another possibility. But you just have to take care for the activated «auto» function to have foobar compensate automatically (which is the default setting).
 

 

[ubs28]

Ok, so I decided to give your eq setting a try... Holy **** is all I can say! How much better these have been the last few days has amazed me! I actually have bass! And the highs aren't piercing my eardrums! I listened to them for about 5 hours straight yesterday and just about everything sounded great. More musical, more body, more bass then I expected and I still have stunning clarity! I've been told it's not a good idea to eq such headphones but for the life of me I can't figure why?

The only weird thing I've noticed is that certain some (very few) hip-hop songs have severely distorted bass (like a speaker that can't handle the volume) even at low volume... Perhaps just drop the bass in the eq a little?

Anyways. Thanks for the advice JaZZ. Greatly appreciated! I'll probably mod them when warranty is over too. Now I need some headache remedy from my listening session last night.

 
Probably because you boosted the bass and now it starts clipping I assume? So best is to lower the overall gain of the EQ so that it doesn't clip anymore.

 

[astrostar59]

Ok, so I decided to give your eq setting a try... Holy **** is all I can say! How much better these have been the last few days has amazed me! I actually have bass! And the highs aren't piercing my eardrums! I listened to them for about 5 hours straight yesterday and just about everything sounded great. More musical, more body, more bass then I expected and I still have stunning clarity! I've been told it's not a good idea to eq such headphones but for the life of me I can't figure why?

The only weird thing I've noticed is that certain some (very few) hip-hop songs have severely distorted bass (like a speaker that can't handle the volume) even at low volume... Perhaps just drop the bass in the eq a little?

Anyways. Thanks for the advice JaZZ. Greatly appreciated! I'll probably mod them when warranty is over too. Now I need some headache remedy from my listening session last night.

If you open up a typical dance or electronic track in Amadeus or similar music program, you can see the wave will already be hitting the 0dB limit. Typically 600+ samples per track will be clipping.
That energy is mainly in the bass content. So if you boost the bass by even 1dB those samples will become 3K or more and squared off i.e. clipping. Digital clipping is nasty, far worse than clipping on a tape recording. So yes, you will need to reduce the volume of the data then add EQ. 
 
However, most if not all EQ filters can reduce impact, shrink the soundstage and generally flatten the drama and energy of the music as they effectively force the PC to resample the file (it becomes not bit perfect). So IMO an analogue (old school) EQ will work better.
 
No free lunch IMO.

 

[JaZZ]

  If you open up a typical dance or electronic track in Amadeus or similar music program, you can see the wave will already be hitting the 0dB limit. Typically 600+ samples per track will be clipping.
That energy is mainly in the bass content. So if you boost the bass by even 1dB those samples will become 3K or more and squared off i.e. clipping. Digital clipping is nasty, far worse than clipping on a tape recording. So yes, you will need to reduce the volume of the data then add EQ. 
 
However, most if not all EQ filters can reduce impact, shrink the soundstage and generally flatten the drama and energy of the music as they effectively force the PC to resample the file (it becomes not bit perfect). So IMO an analogue (old school) EQ will work better.
 
No free lunch IMO.

 
Of course any digital equalizer alters the signal in the digital domain, so it won't be «bit perfect» anymore. That's actually the intention behind every kind of equalizing: altering the signal to provide a better tonal synergy with the rest of the chain (in most cases it's the sound transducer that's to be compensated for). It's nonsense to use «bit perfection» as a magic formula. In turn your analogue equalizer will not just alter the signal in the same way, it additionally introduces a bunch of analogue electronics components, hence a massive complication of the signal path with inevitable signal degradation.
 
A digital equalizer is virtually free of adverse effects such as added harmonic distortion. One thing it has in common with the analogue counterparts is phase distortion. But the good thing about it is that since any kind of frequency-response distortion is accompanied by a corresponding phase distortion, the compensating EQ curve also manages to compensate for the phase distortion. So no harm done, just beneficial effects.
 
That's why I don't agree at all on your impact and soundstage shrinking scenario, also from extensive own occupation with equalizing. The opposite is the case: An appropriately equalized headphone system will sound livelier, more transparent and more spacious. I can just speculate that you've only heard bad equalizing examples. Admittedly equalizing is a demanding approach. On the other hand, with the curves e.g. from SonarWorks at hand, it should be doable for anybody.

 

[astrostar59]

   
Of course any digital equalizer alters the signal in the digital domain, so it won't be «bit perfect» anymore. That's actually the intention behind every kind of equalizing: altering the signal to provide a better tonal synergy with the rest of the chain (in most cases it's the sound transducer that's to be compensated for). It's nonsense to use «bit perfection» as a magic formula. In turn your analogue equalizer will not just alter the signal in the same way, it additionally introduces a bunch of analogue electronics components, hence a massive complication of the signal path with inevitable signal degradation.
 
A digital equalizer is virtually free of adverse effects such as added harmonic distortion. One thing it has in common with the analogue counterparts is phase distortion. But the good thing about it is that since any kind of frequency-response distortion is accompanied by a corresponding phase distortion, the compensating EQ curve also manages to compensate for the phase distortion. So no harm done, just beneficial effects.
 
That's why I don't agree at all on your impact and soundstage shrinking scenario, also from extensive own occupation with equalizing. The opposite is the case: An appropriately equalized headphone system will sound livelier, more transparent and more spacious. I can just speculate that you've only heard bad equalizing examples. Admittedly equalizing is a demanding approach. On the other hand, with the curves e.g. from SonarWorks at hand, it should be doable for anybody.

You best try some filters in the digital domain, then come back. I know what I have heard. It is also well documented all over the place.
 
As to resampling not affecting the integrity of the sound, well, that is nonsense, and why there is a mass of bit-perfect DACs around. Resample anything and there is loss and guessing, in an image, in music, it is the same, loss occurs.
 
My thoughts is to use a digital filter (if totally required) but use one, not a chain of effects, and use it to a small degree. Then you might negate the negatives.

 

[JaZZ]

  You best try some filters in the digital domain, then come back. I know what I have heard. It is also well documented all over the place.
 
As to resampling not affecting the integrity of the sound, well, that is nonsense, and why there is a mass of bit-perfect DACs around. Resample anything and there is loss and guessing, in an image, in music, it is the same, loss occurs.
 
My thoughts is to use a digital filter (if totally required) but use one, not a chain of effects, and use it to a small degree. Then you might negate the negatives.

 
Hi astrostar
 
Who's talking of resampling? That was just you. You know what you've heard, and I know what I hear. And cthomas knows what he's heard. Believe me, I equalize a lot and couldn't live without it anymore – all of my headphones take huge quality jumps that way. But you don't get it for free – it's a rather time-consuming occupation, and there's also a learning curve, beginning with each headphone again.

 

[astrostar59]

   
Hi astrostar
 
Who's talking of resampling? That was just you. You know what you've heard, and I know what I hear. And cthomas knows what he's heard. Believe me, I equalize a lot and couldn't live without it anymore – all of my headphones take huge quality jumps that way. But you don't get it for free – it's a rather time-consuming occupation, and there's also a learning curve, beginning with each headphone again.

Point men to this amazing digital EQ with no quality loss. I need to try it for myself...
 
If you alter anything in the digital domain it WILL be resampled. It is science. It will be reset to another set of sample and the original will be compromised.

 

[JaZZ]

  Point men to this amazing digital EQ with no quality loss. I need to try it for myself...
 
If you alter anything in the digital domain it WILL be resampled. It is science. It will be reset to another set of sample and the original will be compromised.

 
Sorry astrostar, that's not true. But let's end this debate here. I'm happy with my equalizers, and those who dare to try my curve for the HD 800 will be, too, I'm quite optimistic.

 

[ruthieandjohn]

   
Sorry astrostar, that's not true. But let's end this debate here. I'm happy with my equalizers, and those who dare to try my curve for the HD 800 will be, too, I'm quite optimistic.

Do you have a systematic procedure for setting your equalizers for a given headphone that you can share?
 
I have seen this procedure, by @PiccoloNamek, "How To Equalize Your Headphones: A Tutorial," that is suggested for parametric equalizers.

 

[JaZZ]

 

   
Sorry astrostar, that's not true. But let's end this debate here. I'm happy with my equalizers, and those who dare to try my curve for the HD 800 will be, too, I'm quite optimistic.

Do you have a systematic procedure for setting your equalizers for a given headphone that you can share?
 
I have seen this procedure, by @PiccoloNamek, "How To Equalize Your Headphones: A Tutorial," that is suggested for parametric equalizers.

 
Hi John
 
To be honest, I haven't followed PiccoloNamek's thread at all. The time it was launched (the CD era) I still wasn't into equalizing. In a later PM exchange with someone mentioning the thread I was confronted with a method consisting of making fixed frequencies sound equally loud to the ears using corresponding sine waves. But that's a problematic approach since it doesn't take note of the intended headphone-compensation curve – either diffuse-field or free-field –, and equal loudness for all tones isn't really desirable. I'm quite sure it was related to said tutorial thread. Nevertheless, using pink noise is a good starting point. And of course the available measuring graphs. And first of all the SonarWorks curves, if available somewhere on the net. SonarWorks seems to be a good product anyway, so if you don't mind to pay for the labor it frees you from, I would go for it.
 
Apart from that I could offer you the EQ curves I have worked out for the headphones I own (e.g. via PM). These may just serve as a guideline, because other listener's HRTF may require some deviations, add to this my age-related high-frequency hearing loss.

 

[bosiemoncrieff]

It's to the HD800's credit that it can be equalized as well as it can. I've attempted to EQ K1000 at length and it does not respond well to EQ. Certainly if anyone has any suggestions there, I'm all ears.