[ubs28]

The Sennheiser HD800 stock sounds excellent here. My HD800 actually sounds a bit warm but it's ok.

 

[lockjaw]

Have you spent any time listening to the alpha primes?  Is your critique based solely on the fact they are constructed from inexpensive modified headphones?  In many cases the enclosure is the key and not the drivers themselves.  An example of this are Von Schweikert speakers.  Probably some of the finest in the world.  The VR33s use just average drivers from scan speak yet they are universally considered elite.  It's all in the cabinet bracing and trapezoidal shape.  If you've actually listened to the alpha primes then your opinion is of course as valid as mine given personal tastes and hearing variation.  Hate to slam anything without hearing them.   

 

[kapanak]

Have you spent any time listening to the alpha primes?  Is your critique based solely on the fact they are constructed from inexpensive modified headphones?  In many cases the enclosure is the key and not the drivers themselves.  An example of this are Von Schweikert speakers.  Probably some of the finest in the world.  The VR33s use just average drivers from scan speak yet they are universally considered elite.  It's all in the cabinet bracing and trapezoidal shape.  If you've actually listened to the alpha primes then your opinion is of course as valid as mine given personal tastes and hearing variation.  Hate to slam anything without hearing them.   

I have not heard the AP, but I have owned and heard both the later version of MD and AD. What you say is absolutely correct, enclosure makes a huge difference, although in the case of speakers, that's more valid, as headphones barely have space inside and between the driver and ear for enormous differences in enclosure design to change drivers characters.

However, the point of what preproman said was that the price was unwarranted and not in the same league built-wise and sound quality wise as similarly priced headphones in the $1K range. The enclosure of the AD and AP are exactly identical. YET for the same pads, headband, drivers and enclosure, you pay $400 more. I don't know how much work was done on the drivers themselves, but it can't warrant $400 more. I can buy a pair of HD 800 drivers for $500 lol.

And at the end of the day, based on impressions and comparisons I have read, it just doesn't look or feel or sound like a flagship when compared to other flagships, and it is at most an incremental update, more neutral, compared to the AD. Speaking of the $600 Alpha Dog and the R&D and trial and error that has gone into it and its improvements over the original Fostex and the Mad Dog, it certainly gives you the sound quality for its price and more. And the extra cost of the pads and enclosures and all the nice extra touches certainly warrants at least $500-$600 for the finished product.

Nevertheless, with the Alpha Primes, there is just so far you can extend a $50 driver and $150 headphones before you hit a ceiling and modification becomes so incremental in its improvements, the time consumed is the only thing you're charging customers for (and MrSpeakers prices that extra time and effort and possible failure rates of driver modification at $400 extra over the Alpha Dogs lol).

Edit: Paragraph separation lol

 

[johnjen]

   
Most mods, if carefully applied, can be easily reversed and returned to stock without any such damage. The only danger with the Anax mod is some glue residue if the mod is removed. Even the residue can be carefully removed if necessary. 

When I added the anax v.2 mod (shelf liner) I used double sided tape cut in thin strips.
 
It holds well and is easily removed when/if necessary.
 
JJ

 

[lockjaw]

Good points indeed.  Dam, I feel ripped off ....
 
Actually, I really have enjoyed my Alpha Primes but not NEARLY as much as I do the HD800s.  I think the primes sound similar to the LCD 2's (I've not tried LCD3s) though the bass on the LCD2s have better extension for sure.  To my ears, the Primes are a little more balanced, very polite. (and very made out of cheap Fostex crap.... hehehe,  kidding)  

 

[skeptic]

  Have you spent any time listening to the alpha primes?  Is your critique based solely on the fact they are constructed from inexpensive modified headphones?  In many cases the enclosure is the key and not the drivers themselves.  An example of this are Von Schweikert speakers.  Probably some of the finest in the world.  The VR33s use just average drivers from scan speak yet they are universally considered elite.  It's all in the cabinet bracing and trapezoidal shape.  If you've actually listened to the alpha primes then your opinion is of course as valid as mine given personal tastes and hearing variation.  Hate to slam anything without hearing them.   

 
A fair question to the posters above (most/all of whom were/are AD owners), but I'd also be curious whether you truly feel that the AP's are so much better than the AD's as to put them in the same arena with hd800's?  As another former AD owner (which are good headphones imo, just no where near hd800 good), I have trouble believing that any third party modification of a relatively inexpensive fostex driver turned them into something radically better - particularly given that there was no change to the enclosure between AD's and AP's.  The price jump combined with a new flagship product release less than a year after many of us received our back ordered AD's was also disappointing and ill conceived (in my view at least) from the standpoints of fostering brand loyalty and consumer satisfaction.  Additionally, that fostex now advertises a premium/modified version of its own driver in its recent th500rp - at a much lower price than the AP's - really calls the value proposition into question.  
 
I'd still like to spend some time with a pair of AP's, when an opportunity presents itself, but have trouble envisioning myself purchasing another mrspeakers product at this point. 

 

[lockjaw]

Well, if you want to try some Alpha Primes, mine are going on Audiogon in the next few days!    
 
Should have my new tube amp this week, hope it plays nicely with my HD800s   (Ray Samuels Audio Raptor)
Please fellow HeadHi-Rs, don't harsh my mellow if this was the wrong choice. (oh, go ahead, sure, some won't be able to help themselves and that's cool)
 
Interestingly enough, I have never heard the A-Dogs so I'm at a disadvantage.  The reviews seem to rave about the difference between APs and ADs (and I'm not referring to Steve Guttenberg who seems to think everything is the greatest and best in the world, especially when it can plug into an ipod.)  We don't know for sure the AP enclosures are the same as the dogs.  They don't go into any detail on the website, so who knows.  It could be a totally different design internally.  Perhaps standing waves are dispersed in a different way, augmented reflective bass improved, or perhaps just a way to leech off another 400 bucks from some placebo loving noob (not me of course)?

 

[kapanak]

RS Raptor is a fine choice, given how well HD800 works with other RS models I have heard. Although impressions depends on you to post for us

 

[frank2908]

Have you spent any time listening to the alpha primes?  Is your critique based solely on the fact they are constructed from inexpensive modified headphones?  In many cases the enclosure is the key and not the drivers themselves.  An example of this are Von Schweikert speakers.  Probably some of the finest in the world.  The VR33s use just average drivers from scan speak yet they are universally considered elite.  It's all in the cabinet bracing and trapezoidal shape.  If you've actually listened to the alpha primes then your opinion is of course as valid as mine given personal tastes and hearing variation.  Hate to slam anything without hearing them.   

I have made custom headphones out of both headphones driver and I totally agree with you.the stock fostex has good driver but poorly implemented with bad housing, under damped cup and driver and not suitable pads. I can understand why people would pay $700 for them. At $1000 for the prime, I'm excited knowing that someone can push that stock driver even further. Making closed headphones is hard, my closed hd800 had me redesigned cup and baffle 3 times, plus many iteration between each design by playing with felt, dynamat and vent holes.

 

[koiloco]

^ closedd HD800??? That I would love to hear out of curiosity.

 

[frank2908]

^ closedd HD800??? That I would love to hear out of curiosity.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/752877/3d-printed-closed-headphones-with-hd800-driver#post_11278835

 

[Maxx134]

That is a very impressive closed hd800 mod in that link...

I wonder if a self adhesive ring of sorbothane around the driver would not do the trick...

The SAA mod goes further to remove both the metal ring around driver and the metal mesh behind it,

But that doesn't take care the inherent ringing problem, it only lessens it .

I do not know what removing the metal grill/mesh behind the driver does so I will find out myself.
I still would want protection there and personally would not want that rear exposed unless some real benifit can come of it...

I do know, for me, removing the metal rings helped and also solved issue of annax2.0 affecting soundstage by placing green material from anax2.0 in that circilular vacant space/channel instead of in top metal ring.


Not really advised if your not good at modding, as you still need the screws to hold the driver if your bold enough to remove those metal rings..
In which case the screws become too long without it.
I achieved acceptable results with metal rings removed and green adhesive felt from annax2.0 & some shelf liner over it.

Aren't you guys affraid to damage the HD800 when you mod it?

Lol there's always danger involved but you get more bold with age..

 

[freedom01]

What exactly is the ringing problem to you guys ?
What is your serial number ?
Does it affect all of the HD800 ? Or a particular batch ?

I have none of it , not that I can detect of to say the least.
Have not done any mod to it either. Love the way it sounds right out from the box.

 

[skeptic]

What exactly is the ringing problem to you guys ?
What is your serial number ?
Does it affect all of the HD800 ? Or a particular batch ?

I have none of it , not that I can detect of to say the least.
Have not done any mod to it either. Love the way it sounds right out from the box.

 
Sadly, the photos seem to be gone, but most of this discussion traces back to arnaud's measurements in 2010 regarding reflections in the cup: http://www.head-fi.org/t/468461/hd800-imaging-and-treble-why-and-how-it-can-be-improved-upon

 

[knowhatimean]

That is a very impressive closed hd800 mod in that link...

 

I wonder if a self adhesive ring of sorbothane around the driver would not do the trick...

The SAA mod goes further to remove both the metal ring around driver and the metal mesh behind it,

But that doesn't take care the inherent ringing problem, it only lessens it .

I do not know what removing the metal grill/mesh behind the driver does so I will find out myself.
I still would want protection there and personally would not want that rear exposed unless some real benifit can come of it...

I do know, for me, removing the metal rings helped and also solved issue of annax2.0 affecting soundstage by placing green material from anax2.0 in that circilular vacant space/channel instead of in top metal ring.


Not really advised if your not good at modding, as you still need the screws to hold the driver if your bold enough to remove those metal rings..
In which case the screws become too long without it.
I achieved acceptable results with metal rings removed and green adhesive felt from annax2.0 & some shelf liner over it.

Aren't you guys affraid to damage the HD800 when you mod it?

Lol there's always danger involved but you get more bold with age..

Hmmm.... I may try right now !!!
 
But instead of "the green felt" I'll use the "Creatology foamboard ring" that is now sitting on top of the "metal" ring now . Then I'll place
the "shelf liner" that is covering the whole rest of the interior right back where it was.
 
I have to be honest though , I may be happier with my results of the "Anax 2" mod than a lot of people seem to be. I listen to live
perspective Acoustic music (mostly Orchestral) w/ a small proportion of Singer/Songwriter & Acoustic Jazz & have next to zero interest in Electric genres of music, & I'm really finding it hard hearing "The HD800 ridiculous glare because the headphones have no
damping & are ringing like crazy because they can" Sennheiser voicing (if they even did any) any more. This is using a SS headphone amp (I have a few hp amps (SS & Tube, but I seem to come back to preferring my SS sound)
 
Maybe I'll sleep on this... & decide tomorrow !!! (I can picture an angel on one shoulder & the devil on the other debating what
to do as I sleep tonight! ; but honestly I'm happy either way (But it could be better) (Don't fix it if it ain't broke).... where's my
two headed coin ? (Worry about danger ? It was already too late when you started this hobby !)