The New HD 560S: Linear Acoustics at a Breakthrough Value
Mar 9, 2021 at 6:44 AM Post #2,176 of 2,621
After the issue I had with previous versions of these headphones, I ended up going down the rabbit hole a little bit :) So I've got a new pair of HD560s, a pair of Phillips X2HR, and I also bought an XD05 plus, which makes a great difference to both in terms of SQ.

I've been reading a lot about EQ, and have been going back and forth between using settings I've found online (manually entering settings created by oratory1990, and using Wavelett Auto EQ app on Android). I'm going back and forth between using EQ'd, and non EQ'd. There are aspects of both that I enjoy. What are thoughts on using EQ with the HD560s - do users here like to use it with or without?
 
Mar 9, 2021 at 8:01 AM Post #2,177 of 2,621
After the issue I had with previous versions of these headphones, I ended up going down the rabbit hole a little bit :) So I've got a new pair of HD560s, a pair of Phillips X2HR, and I also bought an XD05 plus, which makes a great difference to both in terms of SQ.

I've been reading a lot about EQ, and have been going back and forth between using settings I've found online (manually entering settings created by oratory1990, and using Wavelett Auto EQ app on Android). I'm going back and forth between using EQ'd, and non EQ'd. There are aspects of both that I enjoy. What are thoughts on using EQ with the HD560s - do users here like to use it with or without?
I personally look at EQ as a toy to play with, and I find it interesting, but is something I don't use for serious listening regardless of headphones. I say toy in a positive way.... I love to play around with it and always find it entertaining. I'm guessing that many people attracted to the intrinsic characteristics of the 560s are the same people who would find that equalizing would defeat the purpose of having the 560s. IMHO
 
Mar 9, 2021 at 9:04 AM Post #2,178 of 2,621
After the issue I had with previous versions of these headphones, I ended up going down the rabbit hole a little bit :) So I've got a new pair of HD560s, a pair of Phillips X2HR, and I also bought an XD05 plus, which makes a great difference to both in terms of SQ.

I've been reading a lot about EQ, and have been going back and forth between using settings I've found online (manually entering settings created by oratory1990, and using Wavelett Auto EQ app on Android). I'm going back and forth between using EQ'd, and non EQ'd. There are aspects of both that I enjoy. What are thoughts on using EQ with the HD560s - do users here like to use it with or without?

I can’t imagine using a pair of headphones that I have the possibility of conveniently EQing via a parametric one and not do it. I only see benefits and no drawbacks.

I bought the HD560s with the intention of using them with the Qudelix 5K as a portable home solution with the option of using them wired to my computer.

What I look for now in a pair of headphones that I could theoretically EQ is a decent FR curve to start with (including good low end extension, a trebles response I could live with without EQ as I find this region harder to EQ, and as few wiggles and sharp peaks or dips as possible) with low variability and a decent set of measurements and presets that my subjective impressions align with to guide me (I’d be completely lost without them). I then tweak to my own taste.

The HD560S fits that description reasonably well and I’m curious to see whether or not I’ll prefer them EQed on the Qudelix over the HD650 EQed too.
 
Mar 9, 2021 at 6:07 PM Post #2,179 of 2,621
After the issue I had with previous versions of these headphones, I ended up going down the rabbit hole a little bit :) So I've got a new pair of HD560s, a pair of Phillips X2HR, and I also bought an XD05 plus, which makes a great difference to both in terms of SQ.

I've been reading a lot about EQ, and have been going back and forth between using settings I've found online (manually entering settings created by oratory1990, and using Wavelett Auto EQ app on Android). I'm going back and forth between using EQ'd, and non EQ'd. There are aspects of both that I enjoy. What are thoughts on using EQ with the HD560s - do users here like to use it with or without?

For both the X2HR and the HD560s, I prefer the EQ presets from the AutoEQ archive on Github (easy to find on Google) that are based on Oratory1990's measurements but use a different method to arrive at the preset than Oratory did in their original preset. With both headphones, I find that the AutoEQ Oratory-measurement-based preset sounds more truly neutral than the preset from Oratory1990 themselves. Although of course YMMV since all of us have different HRTF's.

I've taken to ALWAYS using EQ with both headphones
to tame the treble, to raise the lowest sub-bass, and in the case of the X2HR's to lower the mid-bass hump a little bit. I find that the Oratory-based AutoEQ website's presets work best for doing all that with both the X2HR and the HD560s.

How do I test for neutrality to see if it's natural-sounding? Simple: I listen to recordings of SOUNDS FROM NATURE. Rain and thunderstorms, especially rain hitting a window during a thunderstorm, work especially well, and you can easily find that on Youtube (yes, YT has low-fi audio, but we're testing for frequency-response not resolution). Most of us know what sitting by a window during a storm sounds like in real life, so it's a great test to see if headphones sound natural. Of course, make sure to volume-equalize when switching between different EQ settings and a flat setting.

I've found that the uneven treble and SLIGHT flaws in the mids of both headphones make it so that without EQ, the sound of rain, especially hitting a window, sounds too much like sleet rather than actual rain, and with a weird white-noise-like background to the rain. Using Oratory's presets or the AutoEQ Oratory-based settings (as I said I prefer the latter) makes the rain sound how actual rain sounds in real life. And then I find that music also sounds more natural with EQ.

This is in no way a criticism of either headphone's tuning, as they're still two of the best-tuned open-back headphones (ESPECIALLY the HD560s) in the entire world when it comes to approximating a neutral frequency-response
(although the X2HR is more uneven and has boosted mid-bass) regardless of price. It's IMPOSSIBLE to tune a headphone COMPLETELY flat, so it's amazing that these headphones under $200 have FR's flatter than most summit-fi headphones costing over $1000. But the fact of the matter is that both headphones have unnatural treble-spikes (granted, nowhere near as bad as what you get with Beyers, most AKG's, or ugh, GRADOS).

Equalizer APO and similar tools are our friends. Listening to recordings of the natural world will reveal that if you want a truly natural sound with REAL detail rather than "detail" created by treble-spikes, it's essential to use EQ with the X2HR or HD560s, although again, not nearly as necessary as for Beyers, AKG's, or Grados. Don't believe me? You think the tuning already sounds "natural?" Then do my test by using a good preset (anything based on Oratory's measurements) in Equalizer APO, putting on a recording of a thunderstorm by a glass window, and then switching between the EQ and "Flatten" using Peace GUI. With the EQ the rain will sound like ACTUAL rain hitting a window-pane, while without EQ, both mentioned headphones make the rain sound sharper and harder-hitting than in real life, which is not a natural tonality.

Here's the cold, harsh truth: ALL headphones have colored sound that isn't truly neutral/natural. There's no such thing as truly neutral/flat headphones, such a thing is an engineering impossibility, an unattainable goal for companies like Sennheiser to strive for but which cannot be fully achieved. As a result, all headphones (regardless of price, company, etc.) require some kind of EQ or DSP if what you REALLY want is ACTUAL "neutral, reference, analytical, natural, uncolored" sound.
 
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Mar 9, 2021 at 7:34 PM Post #2,180 of 2,621
I wanted to use Equalizer APO with the 560s but it's incompatible with the Windows Realtek audio driver. FFF

That said, it was compatible with Nvidia High Definition Audio from my monitor. I'm surprised by the amount of kick this small open back driver can produce.
 
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Mar 10, 2021 at 12:14 AM Post #2,181 of 2,621
I wanted to use Equalizer APO with the 560s but it's incompatible with the Windows Realtek audio driver. FFF

That said, it was compatible with Nvidia High Definition Audio from my monitor. I'm surprised by the amount of kick this small open back driver can produce.

There are ways to make it work with Realtek. What I did was go into the Equalizer APO Configurator where you set up devices, select the "Speaker/Headphones" Windows Realtek device, click the "troubleshooting options" checkbox, make sure that the pre-mix and post-mix options both have "Install APO" checked, and then here's the really important part, selet "Install as SFX/EFX (Experimental)" from the drop-down menu. Do NOT select "Allow Silent Buffer Modification."

By doing that and then rebooting the laptop, I was able to get it EQ APO to work with Realtek. I did not NEED to do so since I have my Fiio K5 Pro DAC/Amp, but I decided to see if I could do so to see if I could GET the APO to work with Realtek. Keep in mind that by selecting those options for the Realtek driver in the Configurator, you likely won't need to (and SHOULDN'T if you don't need to) select Audio Enhancements in the Windows Sound Options for Realtek Speakers/Headphones in order to get EQ APO to work with it, meaning that as long as the APO is still on your computer, it will always remain active on the Realtek audio unless you switch off the EQ APO; deselecting Audio Enhancements won't make it stop doing the EQ like it does with the standard Configurator settings.

That being said, the HD560s are resolving and hi-fi enough to be QUITE revealing of and scale to sources, and on top of that they are 120ohms, so driving them from Realtek or NVIDIA on a computer or monitor is probably not bringing them anywhere close to their full potential. Just pointing that out. In my experience, the HD560s don't reach their full potential with Realtek or NVIDIA drivers (I've used both myself) or with the power from onboard computer audio; they require something like the Fiio BTR5 (power-wise and fidelity-wise) plugged in via USB rather than in Bluetooth mode, at bare-minimum, in order to start to approach their true full potential, and something like the K5 Pro will REALLY make them shine, although the Fiio K3 is enough for them to sound like an upgrade over the BTR5 if you don't need the availability of a Bluetooth option or the smaller form-factor that the BTR5 has. Even my Fidelio X2HR's, which have about the same sensitivity but much lower impedance (only 32 ohms) as the HD560s, sounded much better from the BTR5 than my computer's onboard Realtek or NVIDIA audio, even better with the K3, and even better still with the K5 Pro.
 
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Mar 10, 2021 at 1:33 AM Post #2,182 of 2,621
Pretty soon I'll be ordering the topping a50s, d50, p50 bundle. Just to really see what Realtek isn't giving me. Something not crazy expensive but will bring out the 560s in full.

I really like your replies. Really informative and helpful to the audiophile newbies that are coming here for their budget reference headphones.

Some might think you say too much but it's perfect. You never really know who will see this down the line and appreciate it.
 
Mar 10, 2021 at 1:51 AM Post #2,183 of 2,621
I have a little question regarding the location of the PCB on the drivers and whether my pair is normal in that regard or not. On my right earcup the PCB is aligned just like on that photo from DIYaudio (https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-s-se/hd-560s/), but on the left it's shifted lower down (red outline). This can be spotted by shining a light through the cups from the ear side and looking at them from the external grill side, you can see a similarly shaped object that blocks light shining through it (but it's very difficult to take a photo of :D).
Screenshot 2021-03-10 at 07.30.18.png

Is it the case on your units as well ?
 
Mar 10, 2021 at 10:52 AM Post #2,184 of 2,621
After the issue I had with previous versions of these headphones, I ended up going down the rabbit hole a little bit :) So I've got a new pair of HD560s, a pair of Phillips X2HR, and I also bought an XD05 plus, which makes a great difference to both in terms of SQ.

I've been reading a lot about EQ, and have been going back and forth between using settings I've found online (manually entering settings created by oratory1990, and using Wavelett Auto EQ app on Android). I'm going back and forth between using EQ'd, and non EQ'd. There are aspects of both that I enjoy. What are thoughts on using EQ with the HD560s - do users here like to use it with or without?
I don`t like to use EQ with the hd560s, i prefer to change the player/amp. Highly recommended to pair the hd560 with a tube amp.
 
Mar 10, 2021 at 11:01 AM Post #2,185 of 2,621
I don`t like to use EQ with the hd560s, i prefer to change the player/amp. Highly recommended to pair the hd560 with a tube amp.
I'm using them with my Feliks Audio Espressivo and they truly "sing". Highly recommend them with tubes
 
Mar 10, 2021 at 8:17 PM Post #2,186 of 2,621
How do I test for neutrality to see if it's natural-sounding? Simple: I listen to recordings of SOUNDS FROM NATURE. Rain and thunderstorms, especially rain hitting a window during a thunderstorm, work especially well, and you can easily find that on Youtube (yes, YT has low-fi audio, but we're testing for frequency-response not resolution).
I find Rain and Nature sounds are also excellent as background noise for sleep, or reducing distractions during work 😁

Tidal:
“Rain Sounds” https://tidal.com/playlist/5ed2512d-b27b-4d0c-845d-3fd517401af2

“Nature Sounds”
https://tidal.com/playlist/8b826bc6-f3d5-45d7-a8a4-3ae63710a9a4

Spotify:
“Rain Sounds”

“Nature Sounds”


Apparently, there are rumors of a higher res/lossless tier of Spotify coming.


I've found that the uneven treble and SLIGHT flaws in the mids of both headphones make it so that without EQ, the sound of rain, especially hitting a window, sounds too much like sleet rather than actual rain,
Keep in mind that changing the amplitude of a frequency doesn’t change the pitch or timbre of a sound... EQ can help with intensity and balance, but it can’t fix everything if you don’t start with a good foundation 😉

Keep up the good work exploring and sharing tips with others!
 
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Mar 10, 2021 at 8:35 PM Post #2,187 of 2,621
I have a little question regarding the location of the PCB on the drivers and whether my pair is normal in that regard or not.
DIYAudio’s photo viewpoint would be from the outer side facing the grilles. I have not checked that on mine, since I don’t like to take apart my headphones when they’re working well, however using the flashlight as you mentioned (in my case, a RovyVon Aurora A5, not sponsored just excellent), I can see that the PCB is at:
10 O’Clock on my right earcup​
About 3 O’clock on the left earcup:​
image.jpg
image.jpg

So, similar to what you are describing. In general, I don’t think it makes a functional difference, sonically.
 
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Mar 10, 2021 at 10:46 PM Post #2,189 of 2,621
I don`t like to use EQ with the hd560s, i prefer to change the player/amp. Highly recommended to pair the hd560 with a tube amp.

Me too. I have my Shanling Q1 Sabre DAC-equipped DAP connected to a Schiit Loki connected to a Schiit Vali 2 amplifier. If I want to EQ my 560s, I use my ears when turning a knob on the Loki. Simple and effective.

Someday I may upgrade the Vali 2 to a Lyr or Valhalla. But for now, I am quite satisfied with things as they are.
 
Mar 11, 2021 at 2:27 AM Post #2,190 of 2,621
DIYAudio’s photo viewpoint would be from the outer side facing the grilles. I have not checked that on mine, since I don’t like to take apart my headphones when they’re working well, however using the flashlight as you mentioned (in my case, a RovyVon Aurora A5, not sponsored just excellent), I can see that the PCB is at:
10 O’Clock on my right earcup​
About 3 O’clock on the left earcup:​
image.jpg
image.jpg

So, similar to what you are describing. In general, I don’t think it makes a functional difference, sonically.

Thanks :D. If I may bother you a little bit more, I've noticed that my head's anatomy means that the cups bump into the rubber bumper that's on the yoke (to prevent microphonics when that happens) - that's a common occurrence for me with lots of headphones as I need the cups to form a V shape when seen from the rear of front. That bumper is quite a bit thicker than it really needs to, I'm wondering if I might be better off replacing them with thinner rubber stickers to improve comfort (right now the pressure around my ears is uneven and higher at the top). Are these bumpers simply glued ? Would doing such a simple swap void the warranty ?

I'm talking about these (photo shamelessly stolen from @idsyphe in this thread - sorry :D) :
Screenshot 2021-03-11 at 08.23.19.png
 

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