[deadchip12]

Extensive comparison of the HD560S with the Sundara

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/jcjzjp/sennheiser_hd_560s_vs_hifiman_sundara_review/

I swear the Sundara are like the most universally loved pair of headphones. Everywhere I go I see positive reviews of those. I would have bought them in a heartbeat long ago if I didn't hate the design so much. Looks so ugly to me.

 

[caenlenfromOCN]

I swear the Sundara are like the most universally loved pair of headphones. Everywhere I go I see positive reviews of those. I would have bought them in a heartbeat long ago if I didn't hate the design so much. Looks so ugly to me.

I tried the Sundara, I didn't particulary like it

 

[cel4145]

The term warmth is defined in the headfi glossary as relating to bass.
This is not the way I think of it. Instead of saying hp A is warmer than hp B, I would describe hp A as bassier or has more bass.

Right. There is a difference between warm and just being bassy. K371 have subbass emphasis, but the midbass is rather linear compared to mids and treble. So it is bassy, but not warm.

I think of warmth as a combination of upper bass and low midrange, because low mid-range is warmer than mid-mids or upper-mids.

It you take away that upper bass, it won't sound warm any more. It will sound mid forward.

If you take away those lower mids, the headphones will still sound warm.

Update: I should add that the reason the mids are given credit for the warmth is that when you boost the upper bass, it boosts the bass part of lower harmonics for notes that are in the lower mids.

 

[kman1211]

The term warmth is defined in the headfi glossary as relating to bass.
This is not the way I think of it. Instead of saying hp A is warmer than hp B, I would describe hp A as bassier or has more bass.
I think of warmth as a combination of upper bass and low midrange, because low mid-range is warmer than mid-mids or upper-mids.

Headphone A, has more low-mids, headphone B has more upper-mids, they both have the same bass response.I would describe headphone A as warmer.

Then we get into what is considered upper mids. The headfi glossary and others say 1khz to 6khz.
Some say 1khz to 2khz. To me 4 khz, 5khz, 6khz is treble.

Then we go further. When someone says headphone A has an elevated or recessed midrange. I never know what they really mean.
The whole range from 250hz to 6khz? The range from 250hz to 500hz,? the range from 500hz to 1khz? The range from 1khz to 6khz?
An elevation or recession in any of these ranges relative to the others is going to cause a different perception of the sound of one headphone compared to another; even though they're all mid-range frequencies.

Upper bass and lower mids are a big influencers on a headphones warmth. A headphone that emphasizes this is the T1.3, that headphone is the epitome of warmth.

 

[ics1974]

How is the imaging and soundstage? How would it compare to the 660S?

 

[gargani]

Upper bass and lower mids are a big influencers on a headphones warmth. A headphone that emphasizes this is the T1.3, that headphone is the epitome of warmth.

Yes in a general sense the more bass the warmer the headphone, but that's only part of the equation.
In my example of two headphones with the same amount of bass (low mid and upper), but one with more low mids and the other with more high mids, if you generalize you could say they're both warm headphones.
But to differentiate more specifically you could say the one with more lower mids is warmer.

To give a hypothetical. If two headphones had recessed bass and recessed treble.You could describe them both as mid centric.
But to differentiate between the two, I would say they're both mid centric but the one with more low mids is warmer.
My contention is that warmth is not just confined to the bass, if you want to be more specific in describing how two headphones sound as compared to each other.

I don't find it very helpful for reviewers to generalize and describe headphone sound as bassy, bright or mid centric in regards to frequency response. That's too general.

 

[kman1211]

Yes in a general sense the more bass the warmer the headphone, but that's only part of the equation.
In my example of two headphones with the same amount of bass (low mid and upper), but one with more low mids and the other with more high mids, if you generalize you could say they're both warm headphones.
But to differentiate more specifically you could say the one with more lower mids is warmer.

To give a hypothetical. If two headphones had recessed bass and recessed treble.You could describe them both as mid centric.
But to differentiate between the two, I would say they're both mid centric but the one with more low mids is warmer.
My contention is that warmth is not just confined to the bass, if you want to be more specific in describing how two headphones sound as compared to each other.

I don't find it very helpful for reviewers to generalize and describe headphone sound as bassy, bright or mid centric in regards to frequency response. That's too general.

I did say both low mids and upper bass. I think you’re quoting the wrong person as my statement agrees with what you said.

 

[danterikxx]

But you talk about comfort and you're right about HD5-series being one of the most comfotable cans in the world. However when it comes to build quality that's definetly not the case. I've had many HD5 headphones and the built quality is mediocore at best. Sony use high quality plastics not Sennheiser. Depending on the unit some HD5 can be very squaky, rattly, some plastic parts are scratched out of the box from factory and all of them have cheapo plastic headband, which gets sctatched super easy and quick just from adjusting it.


The thing is 598 are very different than 599... one being mellow bass light, distorting at high volume, super wide soundstage. While the other more aggresive, less wide sondstage, much punchier bass with no issues at high volume and better detail retrival. To me 599 is very similarly tuned to 58X.


Haven't listened to new seens yet, however I think 560s are still enough different to X2HR just like 58X, 599, HD6, to own them both. X2HR have that airyness, openess to the sound being super wide no other senn have. Bass in fidelio's is also much more organic to any senn I've listened to.


599's was for 99 euros on Prime Day few days ago, and I grabbed them last year's Prime Day for even less (79E at the time). I expect 560s to hit similar sale price next year. I'll happily snatch them at that price and have both for less than 200$

You think it's worth buying the 58x if you already have the 599?

 

[Myk28]

So I used Equalizer APO on Windows to tone down the 7k peak by -3 db for just general music listening. This cuts off some of the analytical edge and results in a very pleasing sound for longer sessions, especially if you are running an amp. Give it a try. If you downloading this program for the first time, make sure you disable the default preamplification and the bass boost preset.

 

[mvule]

Let me disagree a little.
Nothing to do with the 58x tuning.
I mostly hear this as baby's HD800 (oh yes) or maybe HD700 with better tuning , the same lean sound and lesser technicalities.

To my ears, the HD 560S have a slightly fuller sound, which is just what I was looking for.

HD 800S still impresses me in many ways though. (And the HD 700 did, some time before that)

 

[buffer]

i recently posted my initial impressions of the 560s. With a couple of days more listening I wanted to update / correct some of my initial statements and impressions. I raved about the neutrality and how they compete with Hedd and the Final d8000 pro, at least tonally. I also stated that all of these headphones were relatively new and they needed time to burn in and I needed more listening time to give accurate impressions.

i would say the 560s is not quite neutral. they are a little midrange-centric and they lack a little lower midrange and they lack a little fullness in the bass. In fact dependening upon the music, they can sound a little thin across the frequency spectrum. On some music, the boosted mids create a slight lack of cohesion and naturalness. That said, my view of their value and overall performance and enjoyability has not changed. These are exceptional headphones in my view. Do they compete with hedd and d8000 pro tonally? not quite, but of course those headphones aren't perfect either.

I also had the opportunity to compare to the Phillips X3. that was interesting. the 560s is defintely more mid forward; while the 560s does have bite in the upper mids (I mean that positively) the x3 is a little more full bodied and the upper mids of the x3 sounded more fleshed out and sharper. BUT.. the X3 is EXTREMELY hot in the upper frequencies. not necessarily piercing but very bright, the rest of the x3 frequencies feel fairly well balanced, but the mids and vocals are neutral to slightly recessed. I also feel the x3 has a slightly more spread out soundstage vs the 560s which seems slightly bunched up in the center of the soundstage to me. that could just be the mid-centricness playing games with my mind.

If not doing direct comparisons or if i am just listening casually, the flaws I mentioned are not as noticeable and I personally like the ever so slightly forwrd mids. One other thing - I wanted to thank the people who informed me the cable was detachable. I assumed it wasn't because they came attached and they are a twist lock. so a simple tug didn't disconnect them. usually, detached cables come detached. Anyway, it's great that the cable is detachable cause I'm not sure whether it helps the sound but it may be interesting to try other cables - of course the stereo cable goes into only one ear.

note: the above was edited on 10/17/5:20am with some minor additional thoughts. updated on 10/18 to reflect latest observations with additional play time. see cross-throughs and bold print

 

[kman1211]

i recently posted my initial impressions of the 560s. With a couple of days more listening I wanted to update / correct some of my initial statements and impressions. I raved about the neutrality and how they compete with Hedd and the Final d8000 pro, at least tonally. I also stated that all of these headphones were relatively new and they needed time to burn in and I needed more listening time to give accurate impressions.

i would say the 560s is not quite neutral. they are a little midrange-centric and they lack a little lower midrange and they lack a little fullness in the bass. In fact they are a little thin sounding across the frequency spectrum. The boosted mids create a slight lack of cohesion and naturalness. That said, my view of their value and overall performance and enjoyability has not changed. Do they compete with hedd and d8000 pro tonally? not quite, but of course those headphones aren't perfect either.

I also had the opportunity to compare to the Phillips X3. that was interesting. the 560s is defintely more mid forward; the x3 is a little more full bodied and the upper mids of the x3 sounded more fleshed out. BUT.. the X3 is EXTREMELY hot in the treble. not necessarily piercing but very bright, the rest of the x3 frequencies feel fairly well balanced, but the mids and vocals are neutral to slightly recessed. I also feel the x3 has a slightly more spread out soundstage vs the 560s which seems slightly bunched up in the center of the soundstage to me.

Yeah sometimes you just need to wait a bit. I’m giving my pair some good amount of listening before I make any concrete impressions. They definitely do have the Senn treble and overall sound but are leaner in the lower mids and upper bass than say the HD 600, HD 650, or HD 660 S but I don’t mind that and it’s more comfortable (finally another headphone as comfortable to me as the Beyer T1) and I find their sound less fatiguing to my ears than the HD 6xx line so far so I’m happy. If it’s anything like the HD 6xx series with pad wear the sound will warm up a bit as the pads wear in.

 

[Luigi Milazzo]

And finally the glorious hd600 arrived: wonderful. From oluv's videos I predicted it: the 5-6 khz are neutral here and being sensitive to that region, while i know that a dip there was welcome before the 600, the few more db of these frequencies let me enjoy the added detail. I also know that a single db more the would be a nightmare for me. Angled drivers emphasize even more this region, as solderdude explained. So hd560s isa no go for me

 

[equalspeace]

Just started listening to the 560S now from my iPhone and first word that came to mind was “masterpiece”. I obviously need more time with them, but what I’m hearing right now sounds game changing at this price point. I agree with those that have said these walk the line between clarity and outright brightness. For me they are in the comfortable range with no obvious offensive peaks, and I immediately went to some horn heavy tracks from Sufjan Stevens to test this. Seems like Senn hit this one out of the park. I’m hearing at least as much detail as I would on my 6XX, to my ears, but these are really effortlessly fast and they’re so even across the spectrum, just so pleasantly accurate. And the mids are there for me as well. They’re just not the centerpiece, as they fit in so nicely w the treble and bass. Really impressed so far!

 

[equalspeace]

Still listening, moving across genres to some hip hop. A track like Oh My Darling Don’t Cry from Run The Jewels really showcases what these headphones can do. So much happening in this beat, textured bass, all kinds of effects in their own spaces nicely separated, w excellent resolution and executed with speedy attack/decay. There’s just enough deep bass to satisfy, but these are doing a really great job portraying different types of bass textures. Bass accuracy is very impressive.