[kelly]

MacDef
I've not called Tyll a liar but you and I have interpretted him somewhat differently and you infer too much of what I'm saying. I realize the target of the Max/BlockHead was a flat frequency response and that measuring devices were used. I'd never argue this. If this is your point, then consider that I have agreed and free your spirit of this awful weight.

When any audio product is developed, some associated equipment is viewed as a refernece. Some flaws of that equipment may be known to the designer and you've pointed out some specifics with the HD600. Nonetheless, it is the headphone at HeadRoom that is the reference by which other components are judged and developed. When Tyll described to me the iterative process by which Danny would bring him and Todd two amps: one with one cap or resistor and one with another to see which they preferred, I do not believe they plugged every headphone in the warehouse into the amp before giving Danny a reply.

Maybe you missed the HeadRoom shelf on the tour that had only HD600s on it. The HD600 is their reference headphone.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by kelly I've not called Tyll a liar but you and I have interpretted him somewhat differently and you infer too much of what I'm saying.

Woah, I don't think I'm inferring anything. All I'm getting at is that you say that HeadRoom built a $3300 amplifier specifically for the HD 600 or that HeadRoom designs their amps so that they sound best with the HD 600 (and implied that because of this, their amps may not sound as good with other headphones -- not in this thread, but in another one). Tyll and Todd and Danny have said differently, that they design their amps to be as flat as possible, to sound good with all headphones. There is a just a major disconnect between what you're saying and what HeadRoom says.

Quote:

When Tyll described to me the iterative process by which Danny would bring him and Todd two amps: one with one cap or resistor and one with another to see which they preferred, I do not believe they plugged every headphone in the warehouse into the amp before giving Danny a reply.

But do you know that they didn't at least try a variety?

Quote:

Maybe you missed the HeadRoom shelf on the tour that had only HD600s on it. The HD600 is their reference headphone.

I'm not arguing that they're not. I'm just questioning the assertion that HeadRoom builds their amps specifically for them. Nothing more, nothing less. And probably not a discussion I should have started here, in retrospect.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by Hirsch As a wise man once said, "Don't you be dissin' until you be listenin' "

Hirsch:

After participating in the "best buy" thread, and thinking over my earlier post in this one, I retract my comments about the R10

My comments were based on the value of the R10 -- in terms of value, I do think they're overrated, no matter how good they are, just because of their cost. But in terms of performance, how can I say they're overrated if I haven't heard them? So, if I assume this thread is supposed to be about performance, you're right

 

[bkelly]

Everyone,

This thread and it's results are a near shock to me. I have thought of Head-fi as somewhat of a private users group for the 600's alone with everything else mixed in as a public relations effort. When you consider just how many people own the 600's the results of this poll are hard to believe since statistically you have to believe even the 600's owners must be voting that it is over-rated.

I agree with Kelly in that I think Headroom is designing their amps almost exclusively to favor the HD600's. Read their literature about the 600 to see how they feel about this headphone, "in a class of one" and "the best dynamic headphone in the world". If you think they would say this and give any other heaphone equal prominence in the design of their equipment I've got some land down in Florida that you just got to see.

For this reason I have got to agree with MacDEF on this one point. It seems unlikely that any amplifier that favored the 600's would also sound equally as good with the Grados. In fact, if Headroom actually made that claim I think that claim should be seen as nothing more than an insincere sales pitch that attempts to placate the Grado fans. I should say that I have never heard the Grados with the Blockhead so I could be wrong about this but it seems unlikely.

However, I may not vote for the 600's as the most overrated headphones and instead I may choose the Orpheus system. When I first got started in the headphone hobby both the 600's and the Orpheus were so over-hyped to me that when I finally heard each of them I was extremely dissappointed. They both very, very good but they are not the greatest thing since the vacuum tube. There is still a ways to go before we reach anything like the claims made for either of these phones by some people.

Until that day.






Best
Brian

 

[bkelly]

Everyone,

I should also follow that I agree with Hirsch. I too would include the 600's on a list of recommended heaphones to someone just getting into the hobby. While I think they are overrated they are, at the same time, easy to like by almost anyone and for that reason should always be considered.






Best
Brian

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally posted by kelly If the R10 is your favorite headphone, you're fine to have it as a favorite.

Here may be where the problem lies. I don't really have a favorite headphone. I have a favorite system, of which the R10 is only the headphone end. I have several systems in which I strongly prefer other headphones than the R10. I'm not dissin' your Sony, or anything else. I'm simply saying that the R10, in a system that has been set up to maximize its performance, sometimes at a sacrifice to performance of other headphones, is the best I've heard. The setup process, which is ongoing and involves a variety of amps, cables, power cords, sources, and of course tubes, is a long process. As I get closer to realizing it, the R10/EAR system is separating itself farther and farther from the rest of the pack. However, in the end, it will simply be a system that I like better than any other...with no guarantee that anyone else will feel the same. Doesn't really matter to me what other people think of it, for that matter. I'm the one that's going to be listening to it.

 

[RickG]

Quote:

Originally posted by Hirsch I'm the one that's going to be listening to it.

Amen, Hirsch. I've felt this way for quite some time. I'll be damned if I'm gonna argue with someone over my choice of phones, amps, etc. It's a personal choice and we all have different taste.

"One man's meat is another man's poison".

 

[SumB]

I voted for the V6/7506. How people can enjoy listening to music on these things is beyond me.

Even worse for the studio, where their wildly uneven frequency response and weird tonality are largely responsible for the horrid mastering jobs on much of todays popular music.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

SumB, if you think that the V6/7506 is way overrated, then the headphone that tried to replace the V6 - the V600 - is even WORSE. Sorry; if you say so, then NONE of Sony's current headphones are worth mastering with.

So, if you think the V6/7506 is largely responsible for some of the horrid mastering jobs in today's popular music, then which headphones do you recommend for mastering? (That said, some mastering studios don't use any headphones at all whatsoever in the studio, but instead rely on the near-field monitor loudspeakers.)

 

[kelly]

Though I sometimes wonder if Eagle Driver is trying to bait a certain V700 lover, I agree with what he's saying here. There are a handful of Sony headphones I obviously don't like that are nonetheless respected among other Head-Fi'ers: CD1700, CD3000, etc. If you take those out of the equation along with the verticles that Vertigo swears by and the F1s that a lot of people dig, you still have an incredibly large array of really really BAD products that Sony puts their name on. I've walked up to WALLS of Sony headphones on display in stores and thought the each and every one of them completely sucked and were fairly expensive. Even if you don't like the V6 (and I don't blame you on the absolute scale, I like a lot of phones better myself), you have to admit--they're the best of Sony's inexpensive headphones.

And of course, for me, I voted the V6 as the best price/perfomance headphone overall. At the $60 street price they're going for I don't personally believe you can find something that sounds better. That they are closed, durable and portable just adds more weight to the argument.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

I really don't understand the HD600's popularity in this poll. Sure, they're popular, but they get their fair amount of criticism, as well. I think it's about even. Overrated means getting more praise than they deserve.

 

[Trawlerman]

I voted for the HD600s. I have these and the HD580s plugged into a Sugden Headmaster > Van Den Hull D103iiis > Krell MD10/Studio.

For me I find them to be a bit too polite for my liking. I also have a pair of Stax Lambda Nova's so I know what headphone listening is all about.

At the moment the diminutive Grado SR60s are making a real impression on me. I LIKE these phones. Sure they have their faults but somehow I tend to find myself listening to these more than the others.




Hehehehe. Funny thing happened on Saturday morning. I got up at around 7am and went the computer. So as not to wake the rest of the household I put the HD600s on for the first time in weeks and put on an LP to listen to whilst surfing.

After a while my father came in the room and complained of the awful noise I was making trying to sing along to the music.

Hehehehehe. Does this mean the HD600s are good because they dug deeper than just the instruments/musicians and made music that moved me?





Sound As Ever

 

[bkelly]

SUMB,

That I know of no one is mastering anything with a set of headphones. They may edit a bit that's about it. There are numerous reasons why headphones are unsuitable for this purpose but the most obvious is that recordings are mixed to sound good on rack systems and car stereos because that's what everybody has. It's unfortunate but true. Final mixes are almost always referenced in that way. Everyone gets a copy and then runs around town playing the final mixes on everything they can find and then the mix is adjusted accordingly.

Hope that helps.





Best
Brian

 

[kelly]

As far as I know, V6s (7506s) are fairly popular with roadies, radio djs, musicians etc. I have had some people tell me that the Beyers were the best, though, because they were comfortable after being in the studio for 8 and 10 hours at a time. Hard to argue that logic. They were referring to the DT770 of course.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that no one mixes a final mastering with headphones but in the few instances where it happens, I think we'd all agree that it's a bit tragic. Unfortunately, I don't know many people in this line of work so I've not gotten to hear the speakers they actually use. The guys I know who do computer stuff tend to be on a tighter budget and they just use a pair of self-powered Mackies.

 

[bkelly]

Although I've been kind of busy the last several months with session or studio related work it is not my main occupation anymore so I don't know exactly what everyone else is doing outside the studio I've been working at lately but I would be more than a little surprised to learn that there is a single major label recording out there that was final mixed with a pair of headphones. If anyone knows for certain of one and where it is docummented I'd love to read about it.

I can think of reasons to do it and I worked with one well known musician and producer who referenced everything to a pair headphones he travelled with but not final mixes. The reason he did it was because even if he was familiar with the brand and model of the studio monitors (I'm speaking of mains here, not the near field) these things are worked on continously and upgraded almost constantly (including the amplifiers and crossovers) and depending on how they are installed and the room they are installed in they could sound significantly different at different studios. So, the idea here is to listen to something that you are familiar with with a playback system (the headphjones in this case) to get an idea of how the monitors sound compared to the last studio you were in (where you also used the headset as a reference). In truth, all you have to do is listen to any recording you are familiar with and you ought to be able to get a good idea of the differences between monitors but, to each his own, I guess.

Comfort is a big deal in the studios and the Heapphones that are used for monitoring while tracking are chosen for that reason and the fact that they do not leak any sound what-so-ever.

As far as I know the AKG 240 (I think that is the model number) is the most common headphoone in studio use. Sony's V6's are also supposed to be common along with the cheaper Sennheiser's. The studio were I am working now also uses a lot off Fosgate headphones.

The Tannoy monitiors are very popular now and sound great in my opinion. There are a ton of others in use and almost any studio will have at least three different models to use. Big studios will have anything you want or will buy it for you if you are block buying enough time.

I hope that helps.





Best
Brian