[mikey]

hmmm...for me it would have to the the beyer 931 - had the chance to audition these last week - wasnt terribly impressed - bass and treble and not much in between - this is my opinion only - ymmv of course.

 

[Duncan]

I voted for the Sennheiser HD580 (and... well, the HD600 I guess with there being such a small difference between the two)...

If you have to buy after-market cables, and ubher expensive amplification to get these 'phones to sound their best, then it isn't such a hot deal on face value for these $200+ 'phones...

"Oh... but you're a Senn hater" you could argue ~ but you'd be wrong... look at my signature, my current favourites are my trusty work-horses that i bought 8 years ago, my Sennheiser HD565s (which to the best of my knowledge were the top of the line dynamic Senns in the early '90s before the HD580 emerged)...

These sound a lot more prominent than the HD580s out of modest amplification, punchier, yet seemingly better controlled bass... warmer mids which suit vocals, and a smoother (calmer) treble... and they're louder too, probably owing to their 150 ohm drivers ~ saves on batteries for DIY amp lovers

The HD580s DO win out on soundstage though...

 

[Flasken]

Quote:

Originally posted by Magicthyse And...er...when do I overrate them?

Hey who said I was talking about you?

Jeeeezus dude.. can't even handle a harmless joke, eh? How about this one then:

You don't overrate the V700.

That funny enough for you?

 

[taoster]

I wonder how many of those that voted for the HD600 are driving it with an adequate enough amplifier. I for one, had my doubt about the HD580 with the Porta Corda but with the Earmax Pro, it totally opened up and I love it. I just dont see how the HD580/600 can be considered the most overrated h'phone with its versatility and price.

 

[Duncan]

Quote:

Originally posted by taoster I just dont see how the HD580/600 can be considered the most overrated h'phone with its versatility and price.

You said it yourself... all the after-market expense...

Sennheiser themselves made products that did NOT need ultra expensive amps... and they still sounded good (reffering to my HD565s)

 

[Tomcat]

I voted for the HD600 as well, for two reasons: the HD600(HD580) is the headphone most commonly used among Head-Fiers as this poll has shown and I have never found it musically enjoyable, not even with the EMP. To me, the HD600 sounds like the general idea of hi-fi sound but not like music. To my ears, the semi-open HD565 that Duncan has mentioned is better than both the 600 and 580.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Quote:

Originally posted by Duncan Sennheiser themselves made products that did NOT need ultra expensive amps... and they still sounded good (reffering to my HD565s)

Duncan, if you had to buy a brand-new set of Sennheisers all over again (the HD565s have been discontinued), and you don't seem to care all that much for the HD580s or HD600s, then you might like the HD590s. I do agree that you like a slightly more aggressive sound than what the HD580s or HD600s give you.

 

[kelly]

Quote:

Originally posted by taoster I wonder how many of those that voted for the HD600 are driving it with an adequate enough amplifier. I for one, had my doubt about the HD580 with the Porta Corda but with the Earmax Pro, it totally opened up and I love it. I just dont see how the HD580/600 can be considered the most overrated h'phone with its versatility and price.

I agree and Im wonder that too. I almost sold my HD600 early on before I got the RKV.

I feel the same way about sources and properly working headphones. Look how many people think the Stax are bright, harsh and have no imaging because they heard the ones on the WOH tour.

 

[Duncan]

Quote:

Originally posted by Eagle_Driver ...then you might like the HD590s...

Sounds interesting...

I think you've hit the nail on the head eagle, that I personally think that the HD580s are a little too calm for my liking... great for orchestral works... but (IMO) poor for everything else.

The HD565s appear to be more of an all-rounder to my ears, and obviously with you yourself having the HD590s... you do appear to know what kind of sound I like (and I DO like the core Sennheiser sound...)

Trouble is... I know for a fact, that if I went out and bought a pair, and reviewed them... that i'd be flamed to hell (

)

 

[Eagle_Driver]

I've just listened to my HD590s, and came to this conclusion:

While neither the HD590s nor the HD600s are ideal for aggressive hard rock, metal, dance or rap, I found my HD600s the better of the two on acoustic music, whilst my HD590s are preferable on fusion jazz and light rock/pop (nope, I'm not talking about that craptastic MTV-style pop). At least on my current equipment.

 

[Magicthyse]

I'd say at the current retail of the HD600's here in the UK that it's a bargain, and at this price, unoverrateable (sic).

 

[pigmode]

I agree with the few posts above. The poll asks about about the most overrated phone at Head-Fi, and that phone must be the HD 600. It seems to have been overrated more from a defensive and personal point of view from that of sonics alone. I'd imagine that the vote count might be a reflection of this.

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally posted by kelly I feel the same way about sources and properly working headphones. Look how many people think the Stax are bright, harsh and have no imaging because they heard the ones on the WOH tour.

I wonder what that says about those of us who were captivated by the Stax system at the WOH tour...

But that is also my beef with the ratings of the R10. It took me months of system tweaking to get them sounding as they should. So, is the problem the pickiness of the headphone (hey, the Stax is even pickier, but at least they provide the amp), or the system is was hooked to?

 

[kelly]

Hirsch
That you thought the Stax 007 was great at the WOH tour probably says more about which stop you were at. They were definitely connected wrong at the Dallas stop. Also, I think the BAT is a little bright which is not so bothersome on the BlockHead as it is on the Orpheus and Stax. Maybe you prefer that brightness, I don't know. Maybe it's flat and my preference is warm--there, that's less confrontational. Of course, there's no accounting for taste regardless and it could very well have sounded identical at Dallas as where you heard it, but I've definitely liked them more elsewhere than I did at the Dallas stop--for whatever that's worth. It doesn't imply that you would.

I don't think others here were present for my defense on IRC of my opinions about the R10 so I suppose I'll say it again. I tried the R10 on the HeadRoom Max (which markl and Tyll both loved apparently) and the Sugden Headmaster (which Vertigo loved, using the same R10 you now own) using the XA777ES while playing SACDs and listening extensively. Maybe this is beneath your standards but I thought it adequate. Edwin (the R10 owner present) seemed to think so, also. Beyond that, I heard the R10 in the PDAC prototype, the Corda Blue, the ASL TwinHead and the RKV. Of course, I liked the RKV since the hiss that Vertigo experienced (on the very same RKV) had been fixed by AudioValve. These were all driven by the Bolder modified ART DI/O with Bolder PSU, which most folks would deem adequate even if not quite as good as the XA777ES playing SACDs.

Again, I don't expect people to agree with me. If the R10 is your favorite headphone, you're fine to have it as a favorite. It's not mine and I think I went to a great deal of effort to make sure of it. For it to be the most expensive headphone, it surely needs to be my favorite. Since it isn't, I consider it overrated and since it is $2700 in Japan and $4000 in US retail and the headphones I like more are so much less, I consider it overpriced as well.

Despite all that, I like the R10 more than I like the HD600. If they cost the same, I'd pick the R10.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by kelly MacDef You have indeed argued against me about this before but the fact remains that you were not present in the room when I asked Tyll about this explicitly and I'll therefore stick with my own memory of his response.

But when you raised that here in the forum, Tyll himself told you his position, which is that they use high end measurement devices, not headphones, in the design process. Are you saying that he's lying in the forum, but at the WOH Tour he told you the truth? I'm confused by your position on this...

Or could it be that when you asked him how they subjectively evaluated their amps, he said they used the HD 600 a lot since the HD 600 are their favorite headphones? That's a much different thing than designing their amps around the HD 600.

I'm honestly just trying to figure out why your recollection is so clearly different from what Tyll has said everywhere else.


Quote:

That an amplifier designed with the HD600 as a reference headphone would sound horrible with the RS-1 is quite a leap, too.

Why? The common consensus on Head-Fi is that the HD600 is rolled-off at the high end, recessed in the highs and upper mids, has a mid-bass hump, and is loose at the very low end. If a BlockHead or Max was designed specifically with the HD 600 in mind, it would be designed to overcome these faults in the HD 600, meaning it would be anything but flat in its response. Given that the RS1's FR is completely different from the HD 600's, and in some places completely opposite, if the Max or BlockHead was designed to optimize the HD 600, it would make the RS1's sound horrible. That's not exactly a logical leap, kelly. The fact that the Max/BlockHead sound very good with pretty much anything you throw at them gives a heck of a lot of credence to Tyll's claim that HR's goal was to make them flat rather than tailor them to a specific headphone (not to mention than tailoring them to a specific headphone would be a very bad business decision).


Quote:

And the CD3000, R10 and W2002 are most definitely closed circumaural headphones. You may dispute how good of a job at isolation they provide but they are nonetheless closed headphones.

I know for sure the CD3000 aren't closed, from personal experience. The "back" of the headphones are solid, but there is an open ring all the way around the enclosure, purposely designed for air/sound to escape. This isn't a "bad seal" -- it's a design decision. As I mentioned above, it isn't about looks, it's about the physics of sound waves. It's just like sealed vs. open/ported designs in speaker enclosures. A sealed speaker is just that: sealed. Air cannot enter/exit the speaker. A ported design, on the other hand, allows air to enter/exit the speaker. There are different kinds of ports; some are tubes on the back, some are small holes, but they're all ports. Same with the CD3000: the open ring around the enclosure may not look like the open "grill" design of some other headphones, but it's still allowing air/sound to exit/enter, and as such it's not a closed design, which (and this is key, too) is why it doesn't sound like a closed headphone -- because it's not.