[Slater]

Has anyone here tried speaker doping? Basically coating the driver in some way to reduce distortion. I'm very curious about this.

Edit: the Beyerdynamic DT880/990/770 drivers are all doped, and have a matte textured coating that looks like glue or some other goop (though it's totally hard and dry).

I’ve been considering it, but so far haven’t pulled the trigger yet.

The key is the coating. It has to be extremely light, applied extremely thin and evenly, and stiff yet not too stiff (ie flexible). I have identified 2 materials that I think would be perfect. I just need to figure out the perfect application method.

Also, you may only want it on the surround, not coating the whole diaphragm. The best way to do this would be to slowly spin the driver at a low speed like 30-40 rpm (on a drill for example).

This video shows how Sica applies it to their subwoofer drivers (they use a special latex compound):


Note this is most often done to prevent rotting of foam surrounds on paper cone drivers. But it does improve distortion as a benefit, so I see no reason why it wouldn’t do the same thing on any speaker driver.

Also, you can spray the whole driver, but it will generally smooth the sound and you will lose some detail.

It is much easier to tinker with doping on a multi driver speaker, as you can tweak individual drivers (such as just the midrange driver). On single driver setups, such as headphones, IEMs, etc it would be more complicated because by dampening sub bass you may also inadvertently remove clarity treble.

My advice would be to experiment on crappy dollar store headphones. They are cheap and easy to disassemble, and if you screw them up you’re not out anything.

 

[MF Kitten]

I’ve been considering it, but so far haven’t pulled the trigger yet.

The key is the coating. It has to be extremely light, applied extremely thin and evenly, and stiff yet not too stiff (ie flexible). I have identified 2 materials that I think would be perfect. I just need to figure out the perfect application method.

Also, you only want it on the surround, not coating the whole diaphragm. The best way to do this would be to slowly spin the driver at a low speed like 30-40 rpm (on a drill for example).

This video shows how Sica applies it to their subwoofer drivers (they use a special latex compound):

That kind of doping is of a specific type, and it's the opposite of what I'm thinking of. What I had in mind is actually coating the driver in a harder substance. Some drivers are coated with titanium, for example. The idea is to keep the driver's excursion, but keeping it from physically deforming while moving. So coating the entire surface of the driver except the outer rim and the rim of the "cap" in something that hardens and stiffens the driver.

 

[Slater]

That kind of doping is of a specific type, and it's the opposite of what I'm thinking of. What I had in mind is actually coating the driver in a harder substance. Some drivers are coated with titanium, for example. The idea is to keep the driver's excursion, but keeping it from physically deforming while moving. So coating the entire surface of the driver except the outer rim and the rim of the "cap" in something that hardens and stiffens the driver.

Gotcha. Well, I recall KEF doing that on some drivers. They used a coating that stiffened the driver (probably Teflon). It made the sound brighter.

You could try watered down wood glue or white Elmer’s glue. It brushes on or sprays on thin, but dries a little stiff.

So would you try and mask off the parts of the diaphragm that you don’t want to dope?

Also, here’s some good info on that you can use to infer how the stiffness of different doping coatings will impact the sound: https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/loudspeaker-drivers/diaphragm-material

 

[rlisin]

For all those who broke headbands of their Beyerdynamic DT440, DT660, DT860 headphones.

Some time ago I described a mod that involved adapting a Beyerdynamic DT770/880/990 headband for DT860 here. These headphones (and DT440, DT660) are known to have a very fragile plastic headband, specifically the forks break, usually at the swivel joint. Not to mention the headband is quite heavy and uncomfortable compared to other Beyerdynamic headphones.

Recently I did a similar headband mod to Beyerdynamic DT660. The only difference is that I used a flat cable running from L to R cup so that it can enter the cup under the mounting ring (there are no convenient grille holes on DT660 as it is a closed headphone). Here's the end result (for a step-by-step refer to the DT860 headband mod, it's the same except for the L-R connecting cable type and entry).

I also tried an old type Beyerdynamic headband (used in DT531, DT911, old type of DT990 and DT880, DT330 and so on. It fits perfectly without any modifications to the headband (unlike the DT770/880/990 headband that you have to modify a bit), but you'll have to make an entry hole in the R cup and use a Y-type cable, there's no way to run a connection cable via headband in this case (at least not if you want it to look good). I did not do that, only put the cups on the headband as a proof of concept.

Obviously that headband will also work for all three: DT860, DT660 and DT440.

 

[rlisin]

Here's another Beyer i did, a hybrid this time.

I had a DT531 with bad drivers (not salvageable)

Last week I bought DT660 cups (from headphones with broken headband I assume), complete with good drivers. I used them to demonstrate that you can put these cups on an old type Beyer headband (1 post up)

But I figured that I already have a DT660 (on a DT770 headband), so why not try something else. The DT531 and DT660 drivers have the same frames, so they fit perfectly in each other's cups. Also, DT660 drivers work well in open headphones (DT860 - same drivers).

So instead of putting the DT660 cups on the DT531 headband, I took out the DT660 drivers and removed the black caps with felt from their backs, effectively converting them into DT860 drivers:

Then I removed cloth and foam from the back of the DT531 cups to make them ultra open, and installed the DT660 drivers.
I also used DT770 earpads to boost bass a bit (DT660/860 drivers are a bit leaner than DT531 and DT770/880/990 drivers)

And here's what happened:

Obviously not for outdoor use, no isolation whatsoever. But these cans sound great!

 

[Slater]

You are definitely a Beyer guru! It’s one of the few brands that don’t own a single one of...

 

[rlisin]

And I own too many

 

[Cruelhand Luke]

And I own too many

I know I speak for at least 2 of us when I say we really appreciate all your Beyerdynamic related insanity. It makes me want to start scrounging around for some broken Beyers to bring back to life...

 

[Cruelhand Luke]

Here's another Beyer i did, a hybrid this time.

I had a DT531 with bad drivers (not salvageable)

Last week I bought DT660 cups (from headphones with broken headband I assume), complete with good drivers. I used them to demonstrate that you can put these cups on an old type Beyer headband (1 post up)

But I figured that I already have a DT660 (on a DT770 headband), so why not try something else. The DT531 and DT660 drivers have the same frames, so they fit perfectly in each other's cups. Also, DT660 drivers work well in open headphones (DT860 - same drivers).

So instead of putting the DT660 cups on the DT531 headband, I took out the DT660 drivers and removed the black caps with felt from their backs, effectively converting them into DT860 drivers:

Then I removed cloth and foam from the back of the DT531 cups to make them ultra open, and installed the DT660 drivers.
I also used DT770 earpads to boost bass a bit (DT660/860 drivers are a bit leaner than DT531 and DT770/880/990 drivers)

And here's what happened:

Obviously not for outdoor use, no isolation whatsoever. But these cans sound great!

I have to say, I REALLY like the aesthetic of making a totally custom piece out of the parts bin. That looks like a totally stock product, in the best way possible.

 

[rlisin]

Thanks! Actually I must say that Beyer headphones are a tinkerer's dream come true. So many parts are interchangeable it's unbelievable. You can actually put drivers from modern headphones in cups from the early 1980s without much hassle (and old drivers in modern cups too), you can put cups from the 1980s on modern headbands and vice versa. Earpads for their most popular models have the same size since 1980-ish, which makes tuning with pads very easy.

 

[bobbypete]

Hello everyone!

I was debating posting here, seeing as I've already documented everything in the MSR7 owner's thread, but I figured that this may apply to more Audio Technica headphones and may also inspire other people to buy the gem that is the MSR7.

A little bit about the headphones first. They were my first pair of >100€ headphones and I bought them blind because they fitted the description of what I needed. A portable, closed back, easy to drive pair of cans with good sound and a removable cable. And, well, I liked their looks. My first impressions, however, were not that great. Harsh treble, a little anaemic bass and somewhat thin sound compared to what I was used to, but they also had some great qualities about them, like the exceptional detail retrieval, the quality of the bass and the larger than expected soundstage. They also weren't the most comfortable thing ever. The pads, while soft, are small and my ears would touch the inside, which quickly got annoying.

With all that said, I got used to them and grew to love them. Maybe burning them in helped, but one can't be sure. So I decided to tinker with them a bit. The first thing I decided to change were the pads, so I bought a pair of HM5 pleathers which made them much, much more comfortable. But, they absolutely decimated the sound. Bass disappeared, the treble became even harsher, they sounded even thinner, so it was a no go. The only upside other than the comfort was that they improved the soundstage a bit without really compromising on the imaging. I tried dampening materials in front of the driver as recommended by another HF member, but with limited success. The treble would calm down and they'd be tolerable, but they still sounded worse than stock. Going back to the stock pads was a no go too after having experienced them with the HM5.

So it was time to grab the screwdriver and see what was inside them. Removing the pads reveals 8 screws. Removing the 4 inner, longer ones lets us access the back of the cup by gently wiggling the whole thing, while also removing the other 4 screws lets the headphone split into 3 pieces : a baffle/driver housing, a middle plate and the back of the cup. In that middle plate, directly behind the driver, there's a hole in the plastic, covered by a felt ring. So I removed that from the back of the thing, put it all back together and... Well, damn. Gone was the bright, anaemic sound with the weak bass and overwhelming, piercing highs. Instead, what I was greeted by was a warm sound with rich, thick bass that doesn't make the sound signature stray much from neutrality, and treble that was as crisp and nice as needed, just shy of what it was stock. Detail and sparkle were still there and all that was with no dampening material in front of the driver. The thing that suffered a bit were the mids that got a little recessed. It wasn't bad, but just a tad worse than stock. Then I decided to upgrade to sheepskin HM5 and I think I've found my endgame for portable closed backs. Not only are they even more comfortable than the pleather ones, but they also brought the mids back up and made the sound more lively and energetic. It's subtle, but well worth the 10€ extra over the pleathers.

Here's the torn down headphones. The felt ring I removed is the white one in the middle.

Here's the MSR7's stock pads:

And here you can see the HM5 pad on the right and the stock one on the left (stacked on top of the HM5).

And lastly, that's how they look with the pleather HM5s. I don't have pictures with the sheepskins, but they are a bit shinier and a bit darker, but otherwise the same.

In the future I want to experiment with dampening the back with cotton or something to reduce reflections and see what it does to the sound. I could really use some input with that though!

Disclaimer : While this mod is easy to do and undo, there's a chance you can damage the very thin wires that connect the drivers to the 3.5mm jack. Not so much on the right side, as seen on the pictures above, but rather on the left side, because then you have to cram the wire in the jack's housing and it can get caught between the walls of the housing and the plate above. Then it gets crushed when screwing the whole thing together and you end up with this:

What this crushed wire does is either give you a scare because the driver won't play at all until you free it, or then become really annoying because its sheath is damaged and the wire within is exposed and it distorts the sound because, I dunno, maybe it changes the impedence or something. Thing is, that's what happened to me during one of my experiments and now I have to get a soldering iron, cut the wire, see if there's enough to just reconnect it or then have to rewire the whole thing and hope it works. And I've never soldered in my life. And all that because of this little person (last bit of the wire seen on the right, before it enters that hole):

so if you were to put even bigger pads on, would that make the sound stage wider?

 

[SHAMuuu]

For all those who broke headbands of their Beyerdynamic DT440, DT660, DT860 headphones.

Some time ago I described a mod that involved adapting a Beyerdynamic DT770/880/990 headband for DT860 here. These headphones (and DT440, DT660) are known to have a very fragile plastic headband, specifically the forks break, usually at the swivel joint. Not to mention the headband is quite heavy and uncomfortable compared to other Beyerdynamic headphones.

Recently I did a similar headband mod to Beyerdynamic DT660. The only difference is that I used a flat cable running from L to R cup so that it can enter the cup under the mounting ring (there are no convenient grille holes on DT660 as it is a closed headphone). Here's the end result (for a step-by-step refer to the DT860 headband mod, it's the same except for the L-R connecting cable type and entry).

I also tried an old type Beyerdynamic headband (used in DT531, DT911, old type of DT990 and DT880, DT330 and so on. It fits perfectly without any modifications to the headband (unlike the DT770/880/990 headband that you have to modify a bit), but you'll have to make an entry hole in the R cup and use a Y-type cable, there's no way to run a connection cable via headband in this case (at least not if you want it to look good). I did not do that, only put the cups on the headband as a proof of concept.

Obviously that headband will also work for all three: DT860, DT660 and DT440.

Awesome work man. The dt660 with that headband looks amazing. And i bet more comfy. I am still with the old ultrasone headband, so that is defo a future mod for me. I am still tinkering with my dt 48/ pro headband. This is revision 2. But its defo not plug and play, and a major headache. I think dt480 is an easier path for dt48 lovers.

Beyer tinkering is fun indeed.

 

[rlisin]

DT660 and DT860 do look MUCH better with DTXX0 pro headbands. Comfort is good (just like DT770 or DT990), but I have no idea how it compares to the original plastic headbands. I bought them with headbands already broken, I knew about the problem and decided to wait for broken ones to surface instead of paying much more for headphones that would break anyway at some point.

DT48 in a DT770 shell is a cool idea. I wouldn't do that to my DT48 though, I keep it as original as possible, I even kept the original DIN speaker plugs and use an adapter, I only changed the earpads to modern ones.

 

[SHAMuuu]

DT660 and DT860 do look MUCH better with DTXX0 pro headbands. Comfort is good (just like DT770 or DT990), but I have no idea how it compares to the original plastic headbands. I bought them with headbands already broken, I knew about the problem and decided to wait for broken ones to surface instead of paying much more for headphones that would break anyway at some point.

DT48 in a DT770 shell is a cool idea. I wouldn't do that to my DT48 though, I keep it as original as possible, I even kept the original DIN speaker plugs and use an adapter, I only changed the earpads to modern ones.

I keep an original 48A and 480 (25 and 200 ohm variant). The one i tinkered with is 25 ohm which i experimented with. I tried removing the screw to have a bassport, which changed the sound. Then i made them open = back. Then i wondered about having them "open-back" and then in a cup much like the dt480, which doesn't have the backplate. Thats how i came to use the 770 shell. In all honesty I wish i had a spare shell like that of the JVC dx1000 for the dt48 driver

I really enjoy the 440/660/860 series as well. Very underrated and forgotten about, so its nice to see them when i see them on here

Yours looks like the dt770 edition, which is rare as heck

I guess one could make a dt660 edition as well

 

[tolis626]

so if you were to put even bigger pads on, would that make the sound stage wider?

Well, I dunno. Maybe, I guess. What I expect would happen is that soundstage will increase with deeper pads (like angled ones), not just generally bigger. But that's just a guess and I'd welcome the results of more people that tried more pads than I could. With that said, I don't know when diminishing returns will hit with the soundstage and what the point of losing imaging would be. As it stands, with the HM5 flat pads, the two are in very good balance. Soundstage is both very deep and wide for a closed can, especially of this size/price, while imaging is retained very well. I don't know if I'd dare ask for more from these cans in the soundstage department. The only other thing I want to do in the future is dampening the back to maybe reduce reflections, but I don't even know about that really.