The "Lovely Cube" Headphone Amp (Lehmann Black Cube Linear Clone)
Feb 1, 2011 at 12:43 AM Post #361 of 1,624


Quote:
 
Quote:
Cool let us know how it'll perform! I'm really curious about it^^
 
Well that's surely a bummer.
Therefore I would never buy such crucial parts from a chinese guy at ebay. Because you will certainly always get fake parts no matter how genuine these may look like. I think that this should be clear to everybody and thats truly a fault by the buyer to some extend. You just can't expect that you will get real quality parts at low price thats naive. (at least not in china)  Thats just the risk you should be aware of if you're buying things over there.
But on the other hand fake parts allow poor guys like me to get a headamp which I can afford. I'm just not able to spend vast amounts of money for a headamp as a student.
Also you throw every fake part in the same pot. There should be mentioned that fake parts also differ from quality. Those in the LC or M-Stage seem to be relatively good if you're considering that Headfonia mentioned the M-Stage playing at a satisfying level even in comparison to the HA-160. Also I've never heard that one of these amps caught fire or so. I'm not defending fake parts it's just my honest opinion.
Well... that the M-Stage killed someones headphones is a real pity.
Fortunately the LC is getting tested before shipping^^
 

Whoa! Sorry didn't mean to touch a raw nerve here...But, after a couple of friends re-worked their Lovely Cubes, one of them encouraged me to post this stuff up here..
After all we buy these Kits because they are a lot cheaper than the USD$800 for the real McCoy...but to get fake parts on top of that - I guess you take it or leave it; I figured you could do better, as when I had the chance to listen to these two side by side, the gap was bigger than the Grand Cannon IMO...The genuine Lehmann kicked arse - no wonder Lehmann wasn't on EBay getting the Lovely Cube pulled under a breach of US copyright - which incidentally is probably one of the most draconian pieces of legislation ever devised by industry and passed off as a Government initiative IMO!
 
In the mods we came up with, we started trying to make the Lovely Cube sound like the original, when we figured we'd got there we went out and tried to make it sound better...this is where this post will go...
 
IMO the Lovely Cube PCB is about the best thing, buying it on it's own and putting your own parts into the PCB saved a friend around 50% on buying the finished thing from those guys on EBay selling the completed PBA. (PBA= PCB with parts installed - industry term).
 
Fakes to me are like playing Russian Roulette, yet get lucky sometimes, sometimes you don't - that was my case...I don't see any point in justifying why fakes should be supported IMO, but neither am I telling you what to eat for lunch either...
 
For me, it took me all of 20mins to cut out the fake BD139s and BD140s from the Lovely Cube PCB, unscrew the BJTs from the board clean out the holes with a soldering iron and some solder wick, then install some new Fairchild devices! Switched it back on and was really taken back by the sound. Replacing the BC550 and BC560 with the higher gain BC560C and BC550C really picked things up - it took away a harshness that I would get with some music listening with my T1s.
 
The rest of the MODs were fine tuning...


While you have advocated against "fake" items, you then highlighted mods with the "real" stuff based on the so called inferior fake? The saving of 50% on the finished item? Talk about being thick or grateful. The 50% mounts to be around $100 for the time and effort spent by the seller is fully justified IMHO. If you so firmly believes in the real item, get the real BCL instead. You should mail Lehmann  on your mod on how just a few tweaks to improve the real thing exponentially. You never know you may end up getting a free pass to a German factory and earn royalities from your expertise. A real plus for someone against fakes.
 
Feb 1, 2011 at 2:32 AM Post #363 of 1,624

 
Quote:
While you have advocated against "fake" items, you then highlighted mods with the "real" stuff based on the so called inferior fake? The saving of 50% on the finished item? Talk about being thick or grateful. The 50% mounts to be around $100 for the time and effort spent by the seller is fully justified IMHO. If you so firmly believes in the real item, get the real BCL instead. You should mail Lehmann  on your mod on how just a few tweaks to improve the real thing exponentially. You never know you may end up getting a free pass to a German factory and earn royalties from your expertise. A real plus for someone against fakes.



Sorry I didn't get your line of reasoning, nor is this a place to get personal?
 
What we were trying to do was get as close to the real thing for as cheaply as possible...nothing more or less...we then thought we'd try some ideas; why not?
 
This isn't expertise, it's just the findings of some experimenters having fun - at the end of it all we learned a hell if a lot out of it and had a lot of fun...it brought a group of guys together who had a common interest and we shared a lot of fun and time together....
 
I doubt very much if Lehmann could care less what we were up to;  they have their reputation to protect and the last thing they'd bow over to was a bunch of guys screwing round with clone inferior PCBs from China, trying out various parts that we could get our hands on and seeing if our ideas actually worked...
 
 
Why not post you mods and ideas? After all this is a place to share ideas, concepts, experimentation results - sorry if I've got this wrong?
 
Feb 1, 2011 at 3:19 AM Post #365 of 1,624


Quote:
 
Quote:
While you have advocated against "fake" items, you then highlighted mods with the "real" stuff based on the so called inferior fake? The saving of 50% on the finished item? Talk about being thick or grateful. The 50% mounts to be around $100 for the time and effort spent by the seller is fully justified IMHO. If you so firmly believes in the real item, get the real BCL instead. You should mail Lehmann  on your mod on how just a few tweaks to improve the real thing exponentially. You never know you may end up getting a free pass to a German factory and earn royalties from your expertise. A real plus for someone against fakes.



Sorry I didn't get your line of reasoning, nor is this a place to get personal?
 
What we were trying to do was get as close to the real thing for as cheaply as possible...nothing more or less...we then thought we'd try some ideas; why not?
 
This isn't expertise, it's just the findings of some experimenters having fun - at the end of it all we learned a hell if a lot out of it and had a lot of fun...it brought a group of guys together who had a common interest and we shared a lot of fun and time together....
 
I doubt very much if Lehmann could care less what we were up to;  they have their reputation to protect and the last thing they'd bow over to was a bunch of guys screwing round with clone inferior PCBs from China, trying out various parts that we could get our hands on and seeing if our ideas actually worked...
 
 
Why not post you mods and ideas? After all this is a place to share ideas, concepts, experimentation results - sorry if I've got this wrong?

 
Your input is greatly appreciated. I'm getting into this DIY thing and beginning to get hold of soldering practices so I'll be shooting yo ua long PM soon on these mods. Hope you don't mind! 
wink.gif

 
 
Feb 1, 2011 at 7:49 AM Post #367 of 1,624
 
Quote:
It's good to have a go...it's only a $90.00 board compared to trying to mod a $800 genuine article. Someone asked me to MOD their Lehmann after they heard the moded Lovely Cube belonging to a mutual friend. I was seriously sweating when I was desoldering the parts on the board!! In NZ money, that things cost about twice what it's worth, in relative terms, in the US!!
 
Only advice is to cut the legs of the transistors with a good pair of side-cutters, don't try and desolder them unless you can get hold of a machine; else you risk damaging the holes and the tracks. Use Solder Wick to soak up the solder out of the holes...don't force anything...

Thanks for you're encouraging words ^^
Yeah to solder some transistors shoulnd't be that difficult. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
 
Feb 1, 2011 at 9:32 AM Post #368 of 1,624
Let me assure you, not many counter-feits dont come from Hong Kong and average citizens are educated with high standards. There are many high end companies based there(one example is Kef), Hong Kong is not part of China, also assuming a product coming from Hong Kong use fake parts just because it's sold by a "chinese guy" is offensive.
 
China have electronic scrap yards, checked for working order before being sold cheaply, that would explain some resistors' external condition and low cost.
 
 
EDIT: 40 minutes later.
 
Feb 1, 2011 at 9:50 AM Post #370 of 1,624
E-mail Norbert Lehmann at lehmannaudio.com. They change slightly over time. 2006 BCL's capacitator might be different than a new BLC, but i'll assume it has same specifications.
 
And remember, Cloning is not illegal, counter-feits are. Stephen will never print "Lehmann" or "Black Cube Linear" on the clone, but don't mention Lovely Cube to Norbert, I have a feeling he won't like it
beyersmile.png
. The should-be concern is "theft" of Intellectual properties(non patented), but it happens everywhere, even companies here in North America.
 
Feb 1, 2011 at 10:04 AM Post #371 of 1,624
 
Quote:
Let me assure you, most counter-feits dont come from Hong Kong and average citpizen are educated with high standards. There are many high end companies based there(one example is Kef), Hong Kong is not part of China, also assuming a product coming from Hong Kong use fake parts just because it's sold by a "chinese guy", that's offensive.
 
China have electronic scrap yards, checked for working order before being sold cheaply, that would explain the resistors' external condition.

 
Oh man..
I never said that people in H.K. are not educated or got low standarts. I'm defenitaly aware of what living in H.K. is like.
I was not saying that you HAVE to get counterfeit products if you're buying in Hong Kong. Of course there are shops and companies with high-quality products but I'm sure that the price also won't differ that much from american, japanese, european stores.
Surely, H.K. is not a part of China but they got easy access to those scrap yards you've mentioned. So why not use this source which gives you a competitive advantage in comparison to the other countries?
I was just saying that if you'll see an item which is sold at a quarter of the price the original is sold you may should consider that you'll get an item with counterfeit products. And by the way that is applicable to all over the world not only to H.K. .
 
Feb 1, 2011 at 10:50 AM Post #372 of 1,624

 
Quote:
E-mail Norbert Lehmann at lehmannaudio.com...

 
Is it worth to write email and send it to Norbert Lehmann because you want to know if caps are genuine? Do you think that he knows about every capacitor, resitor or PNP/NPN soldered in Black Cube Linear amp?
He has to be genious, and probalby hasn't been sleeping last 10 years...
 
Today all parts are fakes (not genuine). Last genuine part was made 10 years ago. By company that died because of too much "quality", and not enough "quantity". :)
 
Chinese parts can be very good quality (Corsair PC PSU - 7 years guarantee, Antec PSU - 5 years guarantee, Enermax - 5 years).
Your "excellent" Denon headphones are "Made in China", ATH below 9xx also. Are they "bad"? Well, some Denons are pure crap (D2000 and below), but ATH is not.
Nikon lenses and Canon lenses are "Made in China". Do you think that 70-200L IS or 70-200VR are bad quality? I doubt.
 
I will ask the president of BMW, is it xenon bulb in my car genuine or not. I am shure that he knows all about it...
 
Feb 1, 2011 at 10:59 AM Post #373 of 1,624
My reply was to ringer. He wanted to know the capacitator's brand and voltage.............. Believe me, Norbert will quickly and personally reply to your e-mails, you don't have to ask for him either..
 
Also, audiophile products are a niche market and Lehmann products are even more niche, you can't compare it to BMW.. Somebody needs a reality check.
 
Feb 1, 2011 at 3:25 PM Post #374 of 1,624


Quote:
My reply was to ringer. He wanted to know the capacitator's brand and voltage.............. Believe me, Norbert will quickly and personally reply to your e-mails, you don't have to ask for him either..
 
Also, audiophile products are a niche market and Lehmann products are even more niche, you can't compare it to BMW.. Somebody needs a reality check.


 
Thanks for advice. But I slightly shy to ask producer just because I want to copy they product.
 
Feb 1, 2011 at 4:01 PM Post #375 of 1,624


Quote:
 
Quote:
I want to change 4700uF caps (that has dimansions 30x30 mm) on bigger caps 30x40 mm. Is it fit in Lovely Cube body?
 
(Sory for my English. I have a little talking experience.)


You need to be careful about the size of capacitance of the smoothing capacitor you use; this is complicated, as it depends on a number of factors as to whether or not you blow up or stress your rectifier diodes at switch-on, and / or burn out the series resistors inline with the smoothing capacitors...
 
If you use, say 30VA 15-0-15, Toridial, (Lehmann used a 28VA with quite good regulation compared to what you can buy off the shelf), the 3.3 Ohm Carbon resistors will limit the inrush current to the 4700uF filter cap, as well as providing a basic first-order LPF. However, too bigger capacitor, you run the risk of stressing those resistors or even blowing them up.
 
To work this out, you need to know the internal resistance of the transformer's secondary, you can figure this out from the no load and full load output voltage, the difference between these two values times the full-load current will give you the internal resistance of the windings (Ohms law)
 
Then the next thing to factor is the ESR of the smoothing capacitors, this is the only thing that will limit the inrush current into the capacitor when it is fully discharged - this is given in the manufacturer's data sheet, use the lowest value for calculation purposes, as the production tolerances of Electrolytics are pretty big, typically as much as +80%!
 
Then through a series circuit, you can estimate the inrush current seen by the capacitors and the diodes, you can neglect the intrinsic resistance of the diodes, as this will be small.
From the current you calculate, you can then figure out whether the peak inrush current is within the repetitive ratings for the diodes (see the datasheet - there's lot's of useful information, but it's just in the form of numbers), within the I^2t characteristics of any fusing, especially on the secondary side, and within the peak power rating/ Imax of the 3.3 ohm resistors.
 
If you're hell bent on using a certain capacitor, like my friend had this 47.000uF 50V Electrolytics, that he mounted the rectifier and caps on the chassis, with Tag Strips. Being a NAIM Audio owner, and a believer in over-sized transformers, he went out an purchased 300VA 15V-0-15V toroid.
On power up he blew-up the T1A fuses, no surprises I guess, then we he wired out the fuses; switched on again he blew up the 3.3 Ohm resistors that he'd wired from the rectifier diodes, no surprises here I guess when you think about it. So after he replaced the resistors with wire links and switched on, all the rectifier diodes exploded into little bits - that was way cool!
 
He ended up getting much bigger Schottky diodes, which was fine, after wiring it all up, he blew the mains fuse on the transformer. It's not a good idea to go overrating the mains fuse on the primary otherwise you risk all sorts of trouble like blowing the internal thermal fuse of the transformer; it's only good for scrap then, as this fuse is usually buried in the middle of the windings.
So we built a soft-start circuit with a 20 Ohm 25W power resistor and a 250ms switch on delay circuit that shorts the 20 ohm fuse in series with the Active (Live) connection to the transformer - it all works fine now....it was a good learning experience if not a little expensive!


He blew everything because 47 000 uF capacitors. They sucked up BIG amount of current, in a short time. That was reason why I asked you if 4x820uF are too much for output. Because Panasonic FM have very low resistance and they can suck up big amount of current. So everything what is in a circuit before them, will suffer. Some people say that it is not good to to put capacitors in a circuit that have capacitance bigger than 30%.
 
Only benefit is (some of them say) to put capacitor with bigger voltage. Because better dielectric insulation.
 
About genuine VS counterfeits...
 
I compared products on ebay, and in store in my town, and they are the same. "On Semi" there - "On semi" here. On Semi is the same crap on ebay and in store in my town. On ebay I can buy same thing, for less money.
First. Some people on this planet, do not have chance to buy something "special and genuine". And they have to use parts that are able to buy. Here we all talk about genuine parts, but we do not ask ourselves, who of us is really able to have those "genuine" parts. It is not cheap, to pay 10 USD shipping costs for part that costs 10 USD alone and can be bought from Canada or SAD (if you do not live there).
 
Second. I have not seen any old TO92 or TO220 Philips or Toshiba transistors for a long time. All charts are from the previous century. Only new are those made in SMD technology. The same BC550C (On Semi) are on ebay, and in my country. Would I give, for example, 4 USD to "XYZ seller" for one BD140? (In Croatia BD140 costs 1 USD) There is no guarantee that "XYZ seller" sells genuine parts. Who are they to keep old "genuine" parts in their storage? Probably they have been keeping parts (since 1996.) only because they are waiting for us ("Real HiFi connoisseurs")?
 
Yeah. Certainly.  :)
 
"XYZ seller" is highly regarded seller from Great Britain.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top