[analogsurviver]

Quote:

 
The link is dead and I don't suspect it was Carbon Nanotube, headphones have used "Nano-" in the specs of the diaphragm material ever since the Qualia 010 or earlier.
 
The Qualia 010 retail price was over $2000, it was then re-released as the SA-5000 for ~$700 street price, then later as the SA-3000 for $400 (?), same or very similar driver the whole way, this is the headphone I first compared the S500 to since I currently only have three full-size HP's.
 
S500 doesn't come close to the SA3000 unless you like enhanced low quality bass imho.

The bass of HA-500, even fully burnt in, might be a couple dB (maybe up to 10 ? up ) - but must feel totally basshead to anyone accustomed to Qualia and its sucessors : http://www.ethereality.info/ethereality_website/about_me/wordpress/?p=994 . You can see the last point Qualia/its succesors is flat in the bass is 70 Hz with a steep rollof from there to lower frequencies - to a massive -25 dB @20 Hz and even more massive - 32 or so dB at 10 Hz. Bass of out of box HA-S500 is highly irregular, there is a resonance well into audible spectrum ( guess 30 - 40 Hz- ish ) and that is annoying to the max. However, it can be burnt in properly, and then this resonance frequency will be much, much lower, bringing the overall bass response down in level and extending it waaaaaaay down. Unfortunately I do not posess an ear coupler in order to accurately measure and graph them ( also due to lack of equipment to produce graphs ). I will make one with Panasonic 61A condenser mic capsule time permitting, can record the response of the correctly burnt in HA-S500 and send the file to anyone, Tyll springs to mind first, who has the means to  process the data in order to produce graph(s). This might also show what the abberation in high mid/lower treble is - hope it is frequency response anomaly and not excessive raise of distortion around the troubled area. But most likely it will be a combination of the two.
 
However, it is hard to believe how much the overall SQ improves with well extended bass. As much as I adore my AKG K 1000, It can not hold candle to Stax Labda in that department. Electrostatics' weakest point will remain bass, a design like SR009 which I have not yet had the privilege to audition is stretched to its theorethical maximum and will never be able to compete with orthos Like Audez'e in bass department. That kind of capability to play so loud in the bass is generally not required with acoustic instruments, but is a requirement with anything amplified, the most extreme are naturally synthesizers that will go as low and as loud as speaker system in any given hall will allow - certainly requiring more in the bass than say a symphonic orchestra. HA-S500 has (or approaches to have) this capability I did not have before, something I rarely require yet it is nice to have when really needed. If bass of HA-S500 is excessive, it can be toned down with EQ, bringing down distortion by the proportional amount. Trying to EQ Qualia + 25 dB @20 Hz would mean excessive distortion, reduction of dynamic range etc.
 
Certainly I do subscribe to the notion higher price should go hand in hand with increased quality. I have never even seen Qualia, yet from Sony products I know and respect each and every one of them was at least decent in measurements, something that can be hardly said about Qualia.
 
It may have its particular strenghts, yet overall accuracy can not be one of them. 

 

[Ghostfit]

Quote:

Here the promised verdict of the JVC HA-S500 after the full burn in - anything more would cause permanent demage if not destruction. It took 48 hours. Method to be described in sound science section after Sept. 2.
 
There are two limitations. I feel 40 mm driver is still too small for truly impeccable performance, it does sound a bit strained at extreme bass atrocities. 
I have to test Telarc 1812, CD got misplaced and I hope to find it ASAP. Second one is more serious - there is "something" at upper midrange/lower treble; first heard it on flute, then repeatedly on female choirs. I will compare to Stax Labda and AKG K 1000 as much as required to clarify what exactly that is, but not before Sept 2.
 

 
Thanks for your contribution to this thread, the links you have provided has indeed opened up my ears on what is possible to hear on the internet, I currently only listen critically to CDs or ripped wav files.
 
I agree and also feel that the 40mm drivers could be the limitation to extreme bass performance. On subsequent and very critical listen to 1812, I could pick up where the cannons burst roll off, as if the drivers are at their fullest extension and just couldn't push any more air. (to be fair, you'll have to really concentrate hard to notice this)
Eagerly awaiting your recovery of Telarc 1812 CD and your impression as well as your comparision > Sept 2.
 
Meanwhile, enjoy them S500, my good friend.

 

[Skian64]

Quote:

 
The link is dead and I don't suspect it was Carbon Nanotube, headphones have used "Nano-" in the specs of the diaphragm material ever since the Qualia 010 or earlier.
 
The Qualia 010 retail price was over $2000, it was then re-released as the SA-5000 for ~$700 street price, then later as the SA-3000 for $400 (?), same or very similar driver the whole way, this is the headphone I first compared the S500 to since I currently only have three full-size HP's.
 
S500 doesn't come close to the SA3000 unless you like enhanced low quality bass imho.

Well obviously.  As fast and detailed as the HAS500's are (compared to everything else in their price-range) they don't hold a candle to my SA1000's in those areas.  But you have to keep in mind.  You're comparing a $50 portable closed headphone to a (in your case) $400 open desktop headphone.  The HAS500 needs minimal to no amplification to shine.  Sony's SA series needs considerable amping to truly sound good(I feel like I'm shortchanging my SA1000's with my puny FiioE10)

 
Quote:

Originally Posted by analogsurviver /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Certainly I do subscribe to the notion higher price should go hand in hand with increased quality. I have never even seen Qualia, yet from Sony products I know and respect each and every one of them was at least decent in measurements, something that can be hardly said about Qualia.
 
It may have its particular strenghts, yet overall accuracy can not be one of them. 

This is, perhaps inappropriate, coming from someone who's alot younger and inexperienced than you.  I've never even had the pleasure of listening to analog.  The closest I can come is remastered FLAC files and my FiiO E10 DAC. 
But please.
Do your research before you dismiss a headphone out of hand.  As has been often pointed out, raw measurements only mean so much.  The Qualia heaphones are the antithesis to the R10's in that they work towards the same goal (ultimate reference headphone) from completely different angles (the R10 was made entirely of natural materials, the Qualias was wholly man-made).  The Qualias are often quoted as being the absolute best reference headphones in the world.  Whether or not those claims still hold true?  I couldn't say.  I don't have enough experience in hi-end audio.  But the fact remains.  They, along with the R10's, are Sony's absolute pinnacle of headphone design thus far. 
*exhales*
Sorry for the rant, it just irks me when people haphazardly dismiss things out of hand.  No hard feelings and happy listening!

 

[analogsurviver]

Quote:

Well obviously.  As fast and detailed as the HAS500's are (compared to everything else in their price-range) they don't hold a candle to my SA1000's in those areas.  But you have to keep in mind.  You're comparing a $50 portable closed headphone to a (in your case) $400 open desktop headphone.  The HAS500 needs minimal to no amplification to shine.  Sony's SA series needs considerable amping to truly sound good(I feel like I'm shortchanging my SA1000's with my puny FiioE10)

 
This is, perhaps inappropriate, coming from someone who's alot younger and inexperienced than you.  I've never even had the pleasure of listening to analog.  The closest I can come is remastered FLAC files and my FiiO E10 DAC. 
But please.
Do your research before you dismiss a headphone out of hand.  As has been often pointed out, raw measurements only mean so much.  The Qualia heaphones are the antithesis to the R10's in that they work towards the same goal (ultimate reference headphone) from completely different angles (the R10 was made entirely of natural materials, the Qualias was wholly man-made).  The Qualias are often quoted as being the absolute best reference headphones in the world.  Whether or not those claims still hold true?  I couldn't say.  I don't have enough experience in hi-end audio.  But the fact remains.  They, along with the R10's, are Sony's absolute pinnacle of headphone design thus far. 
*exhales*
Sorry for the rant, it just irks me when people haphazardly dismiss things out of hand.  No hard feelings and happy listening!

Good Point - I have not heard Qualia - never even saw it in my life. The first criterion any audio piece should strive for is decent performance from 100 Hz to 10 kHz - everything below and above that can be optional and is better left out than trying to intrude with defects that would spoil the good 100 - 10 K performance with trying to cater for the extremes. Qualia must come from about those woods. I am the first to say if something measures bad and sounds good you measured the wrong thing. Yet FR is so basic requirement that something with that deficient bass can not be the pinnacle of accuracy. Could be exceptional in staging, vocals, you name it:
fact remains it would make poor choice when trying to make a final mix or position the microphone; you would end up with too bassy result. Now I have HA-S500 I find I would have made different decision(s) were it available at the time. You can't judge differences in levels of a couple of dBs at 16 Hz ( pipe organ recordings ) if your phone is whopping 25+ dB down at that point, for example. You can not differentiate inaudible from even more inaudible - my first experience with equalizer came in 1976 at friend's who had giant Phase Linear panel speakers with a subwoofer. For the sake of good relations with neighbours he set the lowest frequency band on Soundcraftsman preamp/equalizer at - 1 dB point. Phew - it was nothing, no larger//better bass than my incomparably more modest speakers. Up that slider by 1 dB - private ( and not so private - neighbours ) EARTHQUAKE . 1 dB difference. Go figure 25 ...
 
No hard feelings towards anybody, as always, enjoy your music !

 

[cute]

Quote:

 
The link is dead and I don't suspect it was Carbon Nanotube, headphones have used "Nano-" in the specs of the diaphragm material ever since the Qualia 010 or earlier.
 
The Qualia 010 retail price was over $2000, it was then re-released as the SA-5000 for ~$700 street price, then later as the SA-3000 for $400 (?), same or very similar driver the whole way, this is the headphone I first compared the S500 to since I currently only have three full-size HP's.
 
S500 doesn't come close to the SA3000 unless you like enhanced low quality bass imho.

 
Ya, you are probably right.....burn in won't do a thing for "enhanced low quality bass", and a fifty dollar headphone would never compare to one $2000-$700-$400...... that is like comparing the local little league team to the NY Yankees, lol.

 

[dnullify]

Am i the only one finding these fatiguing and a little harsh then?

 

[Skian64]

Quote:

Am i the only one finding these fatiguing and a little harsh then?

How long have you been listening to them?  And have you done any burn-in yet?
I found mine to be far to harsh and fatiguing at first, but some burn-in tamed down the highs and now they're nothing but a joy.

 

[analogsurviver]

Quote:

 
Thanks for your contribution to this thread, the links you have provided has indeed opened up my ears on what is possible to hear on the internet, I currently only listen critically to CDs or ripped wav files.
 
I agree and also feel that the 40mm drivers could be the limitation to extreme bass performance. On subsequent and very critical listen to 1812, I could pick up where the cannons burst roll off, as if the drivers are at their fullest extension and just couldn't push any more air. (to be fair, you'll have to really concentrate hard to notice this)
Eagerly awaiting your recovery of Telarc 1812 CD and your impression as well as your comparision > Sept 2.
 
Meanwhile, enjoy them S500, my good friend.

Found my 1812! Can confirm it is conditionally borderline playable on HA-S500 - but only IF it is fulllly burnt in and with caution. Just what it means? 
Those cannon shots are very high amplitude. It reaches and slighttly exceeds level I have been using for burn in. That is what is in semiconductor data sheets called absolutee maximum ratings  - they no longer guarantee the performance but component should survive ocasional overload of this magnitude. If you have an oscilloscope to check - it should never, EVER, exceed 2.5 V peak to peak. At that level the driver of HA-S500 starts bottoming out, that is to say it starts banging with its moving coil against the magnet (pole) after it reaches its maximum possible excursion limit.
 
Observe the most negative review http://www.amazon.com/Tchaikovsky-Overture-Kunzel-Cincinnati-Multichannel/product-reviews/B00005AVNH/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=
 
as it is pretty close to my opinion. Those cannos are supposed to be played at 123 dB IIRC reviews at the time. That is equivalent of a cannon fired at close range - professional soldiers are ordered to wear ear mufflers! HA-S500 is "a couple" dB short of that. So you have to play everything quiter for that "a couple" amount and the orchestra does not get represented loud enough.- if you do not want to destroy HA-S500 when those cannons start firing. Still, those close to the edge cannons are the best I have heard in a headphone to date. Wait till you will have them fully burnt in after I post that tutorial and you will instantly understand what it is all about. With partially burnt in phones that would have resonant frequency higher than optimal, you risk greater danger of bottoming out (or worse...) due to the fact at that resonant frequency amplitude will be  greater and WILL be excited with that cannon blast, rendering safe dynamic range smaller.  Suggest you wait - HA-S500 are too good to destroy due to ignorance, for something that is borderline connected with music. Anything else they can do within safe levels.
 
Funny thing - the results of complete burn in are most audible at very low levels - you should be able to hear  say slight bow on a cello at ppp even if the rest of the orchestra is thundering away.

 

[Dsnuts]

Even after 220 hours I don't know if it is just me but the mids sound more forward to me for some reason. Much more so this morning than previous.
 
Vocals are pushed front and center. Just amazing..Keep them on the burn cycle fellas..This is one of those headphones that seem to get better and better with time..
 
At this point I know most of you guys have observed the full bass end of these but I would venture to say the true characteristics of these headphones might be a more mid centric headphone which is a surprise based on what the first 100 hours of burn in sounded like. It seems the highs and bass end tame quite a bit while mids are coming out in full bloom.. I remember at one point it sounded like a V shape and then more balanced and now mid forward. Crazy.

 

[jwong]

These are funny things. At first everything was a bit out of whack. Then it settled down and was bass-heavy but nice sounding.
 
Now it's gone more neutral. I actually miss some of the bass boom now! No question it's a more balanced signature after burn-in.

 

[sfwalcer]

^ WoW was afraid that might happen, because unlike most of you'll I wanted/ expected more bass from these S500s. I really love how they are sounding at the moment with the descent amount of burn in I have given them. Think I am just going to enjoy the hell outta them now, while slowly burning them in, cuz for me there can never be enough of that lush and deep nanotube bass. Imagine if JVC made a super bass version with these carbon nanotube drivers = MIND BLOWN.  As I am really happy with the sound of my S500s now, I'll burn them in slowly cuz at the end of the day if your music is sounding great to you, that's all that it matters......
 
Happy listening you'll!!!
 
@dnullify the highs/ treble on these S500s are smooth as butter when compared to the FX40s/ 101s. Zero harshness/ sibilance whatsoever for me at less* (least... damn typos).
 
@Achmedisdead keep us updated on them grado pads you used to replace the stock ones, it looks really interesting and might go that route for my 2nd set of S500s in the future. Wound be interesting to see if there are any sound changes.  Of course after your ears gets better that is, no rush.

 

[dweaver]

I do believe that HOW a headphone is burned in can affect how they sound. The intensely aggressive and loud burnin process being used on these headphones is likely making the changes people are hearing. So simply stopping this process and switching to just normal listening may keep the sound signature your getting now intact. Can't hurt to try anyway

 

[Achmedisdead]

Quote:

 
@Achmedisdead keep us updated on them grado pads you used to replace the stock ones, it looks really interesting and might go that route for my 2nd set of S500s in the future. Wound be interesting to see if there are any sound changes.  Of course after your ears gets better that is, no rush.

 
I'm hoping to be able to update you soon. This sucks, it's not even worth listening with speakers, it's as if there was a cotton ball stuffed in one ear. 

 

[Zaroff]

The level of details in those is properly stunning. I was just listening to Superfunk's Lucky Star (feat. Ron Carroll), it's a track I know quite well, and I've listened to it on a score of HP before, and it's actually the first time I do hear the vinyl cracklings of the sample they used in the track. Such a feat.

 

[rickdohc]

How long have you been listening to them?  And have you done any burn-in yet?
I found mine to be far to harsh and fatiguing at first, but some burn-in tamed down the highs and now they're nothing but a joy.

Same here. Nothing harsh, last night i spent 4 hours enjoying music. Those with audio techicnas m50 , I am hearing better mids from the s500. Notes have more "weight". For example, hearing a Trance And Chillout mix by Hiro, track starts with a piano, with the m50 sound was very good, but with thw S500, it was like chords from a bigger piano key notes had more "weight". Any one with m50 would like to comment? There is some terminology that i dont know how to use to define this, its like more weight. Its like you are in the middle ofnthe band , not a the front, so notes and efects are like sorrunding my head..sorry cant define what i am hearing and its something i am not hearing on the m50. The rest of my phones are not even worthy of commenting or comparing. I dont hear rock music or music with a lot of distorsion. I like jazzy, blues progessive trance or things old school like erick clapton, etc