[iamnotpretending]

As you are new, and this argument is old, I get it. Enjoy what you like. You just can't complain within proper applied context.

Maybe new to Headfi, not new to audiophilia in general but okay. Also, is the argument old though? It's not clear to me that there is any reasonable customer education with actual stats that explain what the possible solutions are. Really want to know and find them if they exist.
Not trying to argue with you but clearly I have amps that are rated appropriate to drive these and I honestly don't think anyone has ever challenged this about the industry as I am literally unable to see any objective data about this - unavailable from the manufacturers or the community.

 

[Roasty]

I came from where you're at. Had a hpa4 and wa22 which I thought were more than well capable of driving the TC. But as usual, curiosity got the better of me, coupled with the need/urge to spend money on pretty things..

It's a fun hobby man. That search for the last 1 percent is a double edged sword.. Anyways it's all good. Especially when the wife doesn't complain.

 

[iamnotpretending]

I came from where you're at. Had a hpa4 and wa22 which I thought were more than well capable of driving the TC. But as usual, curiosity got the better of me, coupled with the need/urge to spend money on pretty things..

It's a fun hobby man. That search for the last 1 percent is a double edged sword.. Anyways it's all good. Especially when the wife doesn't complain.

Curious what you're driving them now with and what your feelings are about the Benchmark matched with them.

 

[paradoxper]

Maybe new to Headfi, not new to audiophilia in general but okay.
Not trying to argue with you but clearly I have amps that are rated appropriate to drive these and I honestly don't think anyone has ever challenged this about the industry as I am literally unable to see any objective data about this - unavailable from the manufacturers or the community.

I like arguing just fine. Prefer it.

Woo said it would be ok. Their ok is not good enough for you.

Your objective data is clear to read. output, impedance/sensitivity, SPL levels. You just don't like their answer. Ha.

 

[Roasty]

Curious what you're driving them now with and what your feelings are about the Benchmark matched with them.

I went up the woo ladder and am now using the 33 JPS edition.

Benchmark.. Well I got mesmerised by the good reviews on its neutrality, cleanliness, accuracy and fantastic measurements. However, as I found out, those factors don't necessarily equate to enjoyment.

 

[iamnotpretending]

Benchmark.. Well I got mesmerised by the good reviews on its neutrality, cleanliness, accuracy and fantastic measurements. However, as I found out, those factors don't necessarily equate to enjoyment.

Now that, I think is totally fair - the tubes to me are infinitely more enjoyable to listen to.

 

[iamnotpretending]

Woo said it would be ok. Their ok is not good enough for you.

I might have explained it wrong - they said the WA6SE would not be good enough but it frankly works fine. But yeah, I don't like the answer because they didn't use any objective metrics like you list there and in fact they distracted from them by saying that they didn't matter - it's all just really confusing and misleading for customers.

 

[paradoxper]

I might have explained it wrong - they said the WA6SE would not be good enough but it frankly works fine. But yeah, I don't like the answer because they didn't use any objective metrics like you list there and in fact they distracted from them by saying that they didn't matter - it's all just really confusing and misleading for customers.

Sure. They perhaps could have provided a pedantic explanation. I don't know exactly if you did ask for one.

My general feeling is there is a understood minimum reference for which is followed. Ish.
That is a 2 watt minimum.

As such, I bet Woo's feelings are the WA6 is mediocre with the Abyss pairing and if they tried to oversell you this amp and you did not like it, you could cause them more headaches than they care to deal with.

Or maybe Woo staff's a bunch of idiots. Their engineers are semi-competent however.

 

[jlbrach]

It's all subjective convolute. However, yes, you can do some basic calculation 42Ω 88dB - 115-120 dB equates 500mW - 1.5W.
So you go listen to a 1w nominal amplifier and tell me you aren't disappointed.

bingo, exactly my point...there is a minimum necessary..after you reach that it is all subjective...

 

[iamnotpretending]

Sure. They perhaps could have provided a pedantic explanation. I don't know exactly if you did ask for one.

My general feeling is there is a understood minimum reference for which is followed. Ish.
That is a 2 watt minimum.

As such, I bet Woo's feelings are the WA6 is mediocre with the Abyss pairing and if they tried to oversell you this amp and you did not like it, you could cause them more headaches than they care to deal with.

Or maybe Woo staff's a bunch of idiots. Their engineers are semi-competent however.

Re: 2 watt minimum - Sure, I can buy that. Having that number at least gives me something I can buy an amp off of, you know? Because maybe I want something different from a Woo amp or Benchmark or something from a manufacturer who doesn't also sell those headphones (as Woo does) so I can be sure that it's a good pairing. That's really all I wanted to know from the manufacturers. The WA6-SE actually comes close to that at 1900mW for 60 ohms, whereas the amp they tried to have me trade up for has 1500mw at 60 ohms, so I still don't fully understand that recommendation from Woo.

Re: woo's feeling about the amps - That could be true for sure but it could be equally true that they feel really good about selling me an amp that's a multiple of what I already spent when I have something that works fine.

 

[genefruit]

Retract

 

[iamnotpretending]

As a casual observer to this discussion, it appears it was Abyss and not Woo who said they amp in question would be insufficient.

Was both actually.

 

[paradoxper]

Re: 2 watt minimum - Sure, I can buy that. Having that number at least gives me something I can buy an amp off of, you know? That's really all I wanted to know from the manufacturers. The WA6-SE actually comes close to that at 1900mW for 60 ohms, whereas the amp they tried to have me trade up for has 1500mw at 60 ohms, so I still don't fully understand that recommendation from Woo.

Re: woo's feeling about the amps - That could be true for sure but it could be equally true that they feel really good about selling me an amp that's a multiple of what I already spent when I have something that works fine.

Well, again, you have a heart of science, so do the calculations. And that number is arbitrary. You aren't accounting for component matching, SPL, personal acuity, dynamic range material, etc. It all plays a part.

I couldn't explain why Woo would recommend the WA22. I surmise you weren't speaking to one of their semi-competent engineers to begin so will stick with that accounting.

And Yup. Perhaps this industry isn't wholly incompetent however corrupt and commercially driven they must be to eat.

 

[iamnotpretending]

I couldn't explain why Woo would recommend the WA22.

What's curious to me is they both suggested that amp and I still also don't fully understand why and if there are other specs are part of it, would have loved to have had that explained to me then.

Yup. Perhaps this industry isn't wholly incompetent however corrupt and commercially driven they must be to eat.

lol, fair enough.

 

[Bonddam]

I asked Woo awhile back what the was the wattage at 50 ohms on WA33 and they didn’t want to tell me. All they said music and power is dynamic. So they claim 10 watts on that amp wondering where that lies.