[Articnoise]

The main advantage of the balanced circuit is its ability to reject noise. A true balanced amplifyer is a so called differential amplifier that amplifies the difference between the two input voltages, but not the voltage common to both inputs. By messuring the difference in voltage between the two signals the amp can easy filter out the noise from the audio signal.

 

[matthewhypolite]

Out of interest, any plans to purchase a Diana Phi down the track?

No.

 

[mulder01]

The main advantage of the balanced circuit is its ability to reject noise. A true balanced amplifyer is a so called differential amplifier that amplifies the difference between the two input voltages, but not the voltage common to both inputs. By messuring the difference in voltage between the two signals the amp can easy filter out the noise from the audio signal.

I think he is talking about balanced output / 4 internal amplifiers. Balanced input is what rejects your electrical noise, and many amps have that, even though they only have single ended headphone output.

 

[kelvinwsy]

Looks like another alternative would be using a conversion/adapter like the Hifiman HE-Adapter? This would probably ensure peace of mind but hopefully not adversely affect SQ.

It is a late reply but just wanted to share.. I use this Hifiman Resistor box with my Audionote Quest Silver 300b minoblocs.. with my HD800 and HE 560... Sounds wonderful .. As my Quests are the High Gain Model , there was a slight background hiss.. A 25watt 10 ohm resistor in series with the +ve signal line solved it. I use a 1% Vishay wirewound resistor
The Abyss ab-1266 Phi CC just joined my Hp collection.. Wow it is a killer TOTL Hp..Sounds so damn good vs my Modded HD800 and the He560
8 watts thru the adapted Hifiman Resistor box gives 11 on my SMSL VMVD1 Dac Variable volume 15-17 for the He560 and 20 for the Ab 1266
This us not meant to be a review but in case anyone is wondering can a tube amp drive the abyss well .. YES!
I was a fsnnof the HD800 headstage until I heard the abyss. Slightly less amphitheatre like the HD800 but pinpoint location and more solidity to all vocals, instruments and sounds. Better?
No different
Next adventure is to try a solid state amp .. looking at the Goldenwave GA-X

 

[kelvinwsy]

It is a late reply but just wanted to share.. I use this Hifiman Resistor box with my Audionote Quest Silver 300b minoblocs.. with my HD800 and HE 560... Sounds wonderful .. As my Quests are the High Gain Model , there was a slight background hiss.. A 25watt 10 ohm resistor in series with the +ve signal line solved it. I use a 1% Vishay wirewound resistor
The Abyss ab-1266 Phi CC just joined my Hp collection.. Wow it is a killer TOTL Hp..Sounds so damn good vs my Modded HD800 and the He560
8 watts thru the adapted Hifiman Resistor box gives 11 on my SMSL VMVD1 Dac Variable volume 15-17 for the He560 and 20 for the Ab 1266
This us not meant to be a review but in case anyone is wondering can a tube amp drive the abyss well .. YES!
I was a fsnnof the HD800 headstage until I heard the abyss. Slightly less amphitheatre like the HD800 but pinpoint location and more solidity to all vocals, instruments and sounds. Better?
No different
Next adventure is to try a solid state amp .. looking at the Goldenwave GA-X

 

[MacedonianHero]

After a few nights with the TC, I am really getting to know these headphones. The quickness has been kicked up to a level that I would safely say is very much "stat-like" and among the best I've heard. The speaker-like presentation is thankfully still there, as is the world-class bass. These new drivers are very nimble and pull out even more micro-details from the recording than the originals or Phi-CC versions. So far I am very impressed with what I am hearing thus far!

 

[Articnoise]

I think he is talking about balanced output / 4 internal amplifiers. Balanced input is what rejects your electrical noise, and many amps have that, even though they only have single ended headphone output.

Are you saying that you know some balanced amplifier that has only single ended headphone outputs?

 

[mulder01]

Well I am a former Violectric v281 owner (balanced in, balanced out) and I know the next model down - v220 is balanced in, single ended out. Pretty sure it was a wa234 owner that told me despite the 3 pin xlr outputs on the front, it was actually single ended signal - just balanced plugs. Correct me if I'm wrong.
TBH, I've never bothered to take notice/ keep records of such things, but if I cared to look, I'm sure I'd find a bunch more among the plethora of headphone amps available today.
As you said, balanced input circuitry sorts out the signal from the noise. Which is separate to the amp section. Once the noise is removed from the signal, it can be amplified with one amp per channel. It may not be as common because people buying gear with balanced inputs are probably going to believe that it should be balanced all the way through, but it doesn't have to be the case.

 

[Articnoise]

Well I am a former Violectric v281 owner (balanced in, balanced out) and I know the next model down - v220 is balanced in, single ended out. Pretty sure it was a wa234 owner that told me despite the 3 pin xlr outputs on the front, it was actually single ended signal - just balanced plugs. Correct me if I'm wrong.
TBH, I've never bothered to take notice/ keep records of such things, but if I cared to look, I'm sure I'd find a bunch more among the plethora of headphone amps available today.
As you said, balanced input circuitry sorts out the signal from the noise. Which is separate to the amp section. Once the noise is removed from the signal, it can be amplified with one amp per channel. It may not be as common because people buying gear with balanced inputs are probably going to believe that it should be balanced all the way through, but it doesn't have to be the case.

I have never seen a balanced amplifier that has only single ended headphone output. To be clear – it’s NOT the input and outputs that makes an amplifier balanced or not. Many amplifiers that are single ended have XLR connectors for headphones, because the advantage of XLR over RCA connector. It doesn’t mean that the amplifier is also operating balanced.

You can OTOH have a true balanced amp and summing the balanced output to single ended and get most of the pros of the balanced circuit’s noise rejection.

 

[mulder01]

Yep, you can get all sorts of arrangements. The phrase 'true balanced' is a bit of a load IMO as everyone has their opinion on exactly what that means, and what's 'best'.
I guess my point was that some amps are single ended in and out, some are balanced in and out, some have balanced in single ended out, some look like they have balanced out but it's only a single ended signal, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter - judge an amp on it's sound and don't believe the whole 'balanced is better' myth. Another member on here was using the flagship headphone amp from Goldmund at I think $10k+ and it's single ended in and out. If Goldmund thought it was worthwhile to include a balanced option for their TOTL flagship, they would have done it. Everyone has their own ideas.

 

[Articnoise]

Yep, you can get all sorts of arrangements. The phrase 'true balanced' is a bit of a load IMO as everyone has their opinion on exactly what that means, and what's 'best'.
I guess my point was that some amps are single ended in and out, some are balanced in and out, some have balanced in single ended out, some look like they have balanced out but it's only a single ended signal, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter - judge an amp on it's sound and don't believe the whole 'balanced is better' myth. Another member on here was using the flagship headphone amp from Goldmund at I think $10k+ and it's single ended in and out. If Goldmund thought it was worthwhile to include a balanced option for their TOTL flagship, they would have done it. Everyone has their own ideas.

I don’t know if everyone have their own opinion about that balanced is. Some people here does appear to look at an amp and if it has XLR inputs or outputs they can say, my amp is balanced. But no a balanced amplifier is an amp that is operating in balanced. A true balanced amp is designed exclusively with a differential balanced signal path from input to output. The balanced operating is done by amplifying the difference between the two input voltages, but not the voltage common to both inputs.

I have never said that a balanced amp is better than any other amp, never. I have merely explained the real advantage of, and what’s make an amplifier balanced. It’s an electrical circuit design that is not only used in audio gear. The advantage of true balanced operation is real and just because we can find many expansive unbalanced amps doesn’t mean anything as long as we can find equally good sounded balanced TOTL amps.

Less than a month ago I bought a new amp that is not balanced. Would I have bought it if I believed in what you call the “balanced is better myth”. All amp designs have their pros and cons, no matter if its class A or class A/B or class D, or if it’s SE or balanced, if it’s solid state or tube etc etc.

 

[Focux]

wah this one from lazada or qo10 one is it

 

[kelvinwsy]

aliexpress​

 

[Zhanming057]

I don’t know if everyone have their own opinion about that balanced is. Some people here does appear to look at an amp and if it has XLR inputs or outputs they can say, my amp is balanced. But no a balanced amplifier is an amp that is operating in balanced. A true balanced amp is designed exclusively with a differential balanced signal path from input to output. The balanced operating is done by amplifying the difference between the two input voltages, but not the voltage common to both inputs.

I have never said that a balanced amp is better than any other amp, never. I have merely explained the real advantage of, and what’s make an amplifier balanced. It’s an electrical circuit design that is not only used in audio gear. The advantage of true balanced operation is real and just because we can find many expansive unbalanced amps doesn’t mean anything as long as we can find equally good sounded balanced TOTL amps.

Less than a month ago I bought a new amp that is not balanced. Would I have bought it if I believed in what you call the “balanced is better myth”. All amp designs have their pros and cons, no matter if its class A or class A/B or class D, or if it’s SE or balanced, if it’s solid state or tube etc etc.

It's more nuanced than that, though. Balanced designed cancel out noise but inside the same chassis, you're running two sets of components and each set of components is necessarily smaller and cheaper, for a given price point, than a purely SE design where only one pair of components is ever required. So you could solve the issue by running a fully balanced circuitry or solve the issue by simply using more expensive components, and spending more money on the power supply and isolation, and you could conceivably achieve the same result.

Balanced amps aren't inherently better at controlling noise, but if you take the same amp and double up on the circuitry, it will be a better amp - and that's basically why bridged mode exists. I do think that in recent years the feature has become quite gimmicky especially among cheaper desktop amps and portable devices, and lots of companies are peddling the "balanced is better" idea because doubling up on cheap circuitry is probably cost-saving over using the good stuff.

 

[mulder01]

I don’t know if everyone have their own opinion about that balanced is. Some people here does appear to look at an amp and if it has XLR inputs or outputs they can say, my amp is balanced. But no a balanced amplifier is an amp that is operating in balanced. A true balanced amp is designed exclusively with a differential balanced signal path from input to output. The balanced operating is done by amplifying the difference between the two input voltages, but not the voltage common to both inputs.

Not talking about people arguing about what balanced is, but the term 'true balanced'. I think years ago it was the Schiit fans saying that the Violectric balanced amps were not 'true balanced' because they took the incoming signal, removed the noise, sent the clean signal and a phase inverted copy if the clean signal to the amps to amplify. From memory I believe Schiit's approach was to just take the signal and inverted signal coming in, amplify them as they were, then the output from each amp would end up pushing the driver back and forward in a way that meant the noise was removed after amplification. Something like that anyway. And that somehow got coined as being "True balanced" rather than Vio's traditional way of cleaning the signal upon input and working with it after that. That's what I meant by people having different ideas about what 'true balanced' means and what methods of amplification are 'best'.

I have never said that a balanced amp is better than any other amp, never. I have merely explained the real advantage of, and what’s make an amplifier balanced. It’s an electrical circuit design that is not only used in audio gear. The advantage of true balanced operation is real and just because we can find many expansive unbalanced amps doesn’t mean anything as long as we can find equally good sounded balanced TOTL amps.

Less than a month ago I bought a new amp that is not balanced. Would I have bought it if I believed in what you call the “balanced is better myth”. All amp designs have their pros and cons, no matter if its class A or class A/B or class D, or if it’s SE or balanced, if it’s solid state or tube etc etc.

Yeah I agree, I was replying to the member that was asking a few pages ago if you were missing out with the formula S because it wasn't balanced or true balanced or whatever, because that was the word going round. I was simply trying to say that it doesn't really matter as long as the amplifier has sufficient specs for the headphone. Some portables are low power output and balanced gives them that extra, as well as headroom, and in that case, balanced was better, but apart from that, it makes f- all difference. Looks like you came into the conversation late and thought I was arguing with you?