[Beolab]

I'm not sure why this is, perhaps you or Joe can explain/know why. If the Abyss only get benefit from the first 1-5 watts, how come they seem to LOVE extra power behind them/lots of headroom. I know my Taurus just isn't up to the job. In balanced mode there is a lot of clipping, and in SE mode, which is more powerful (4500mw @32 ohm) you can still tell it is struggling, and there is some distortion in the bass at high listening levels. When I tried it with the iFi ICAN pro, which does 14,000mw max output (If I remember correctly, not sure how much it does into 46 ohms) it was like listening to a different headphone. There was so much more authority, punch, and bass.

After hearing what the Abyss can do with more power behind it, I find it disappointing to listen to at home with my set up. On my system, the LCD-4 is probably the more impressive headphone, but I know that the Abyss, with power behind it, is a better listening experience. I can't wait to improve my set up and get an amplifier with more power that is better suited for the Abyss, as I know I haven't tapped into its potential fully yet. I used to think the Taurus was doing it justice, but it just isn't powerful enough for my needs. Live and learn, I've learned my lesson. I apologise to anyone in this thread that I've said you don't need gobs of power, and that you can use the Abyss with lesser amps. Well, you can definitely use it with lesser amps, and it is still a world class sounding headphone, its just that with that extra grunt and headroom behind it, it is more than world class, it is the best I have heard. 

Do you find now, after selling your HeadTrip, that you prefer the Moon 600i? I liked your analogy that the HeadTrip is like a V8 supercharged engine with lots of grunt, while the 600i is like a Rolls Royce, very fluid, smooth and transparent. 
Another member of the club! Congrats! 

I used to feel that way, and I agree that synergy is important. However I disagree that the Abyss isn't that hard to drive. I used to think that it was not that hard to drive, but as I said above, after hearing it with power behind it, it was like a whole new headphone. The bass especially was just so mind blowing compared to how I had been hearing it at home. 

I use the Abyss sometimes straight out of my Mojo, and LH Labs GO2A, and it works well, just like it works well out of my Taurus, but I still can't get over how much better it sounded with more power behind it. The iFi ICAN Pro is an ok sounding amp, a bit sterile perhaps? I can only imagine what the Abyss sounds like out of something like the 600i, HeadTrip, Egoista etc..

I'm waiting for Can Jam at RMAF to see what products get unvailed, and also waiting for the Wells Audio Milo to see what the impressions are, but I can't wait to upgrade my set up to components more fitting for the Abyss. I'm fortunate enough to have TOTL headphones, and whilst I may not be able to afford TOTL source gear like some in this thread (no hate or jealousy here, if you can afford it, the Abyss deserve it,) I hope I can do a bit more justice to my headphones than I am currently. The Chord Hugo TT, or Mytek Brooklyn DAC, and Wells Audio Enigma are looking promising currently, but that may change as time goes on and I do more research. Sorry, I'm bored and rambling...

As with everything, your milage may vary, and you might find less power to be enough for the Abyss. Either way, I'm glad to hear it still wows you after 6 months

The question why for example the Auralic Taurus don't keep up with the Abyss is down to the amp design and dampening factor and the output load stability.
It got about 15 volts or 3.2 watts @ 46 Ohms load, so when your music are playing on 85 db listening level it demands 1 watts of power measured & 60Hz, but if the music maybe got a bass tune that demands 3,3 watts to reproduce 85 db @ 30Hz then the Taurus are going to hit the seeling because it cant deliver what it is demanded to, and it distort and start clipping straight away.
So you are playing on the red line all the time when you got mid to high listening levels.
Your Abyss does not draw 46 Ohms resistance consistently, it is just an average measuring figure, so it can fall or increase depending on the music and vol. level.

A amp like the HeadTrip , Egoista , Woo 234 or Moon 600i for example got so much power and current drive ( Tourqe ) so it does not even break the slightest svet on any vol. level or heavy load from the connected headphones, with demanding dynamic music at all because of the huge ovely built power/Ampere reserve.

Then the high end amps have almost no compromises at all somethings, and got often a total diffrent amp design layout than the cheaper amps where things have been compromised.

But, this says nothing on how they are going to sound, or how transparaent they are going to be, just good to know you will not ever gas out the amp, and your headphones or speakers are going to live a longer healthier and safer life because the absence of clipping and distortion like from an unstable amp any more.

So yes, you need to experience this by your self.

 

[Xecuter]

The reason he is getting clipping is not due to the amp. A Taurus is like 4.5 watts into 32 ohms, the clipping noted here is due to some other reason.
I've heard the Taurus with the Abyss and it is actually a really decent pairing. 
I will write more on this, but there is a serious misunderstanding of what kind of headroom is required here... Also a misconception that more is always better?
Even with the he-6, people get so fixated on megawatt amps more than the music...
 
My new amp will probably get .5 of a watt into the abyss. It does have a speaker out which will put put 6 watts into 8 ohms,
I have no concerns with it's ability to drive the abyss.

 

[ufospls2]

  The reason he is getting clipping is not due to the amp. A Taurus is like 4.5 watts into 32 ohms, the clipping noted here is due to some other reason.
I've heard the Taurus with the Abyss and it is actually a really decent pairing. 
I will write more on this, but there is a serious misunderstanding of what kind of headroom is required here... Also a misconception that more is always better?
Even with the he-6, people get so fixated on megawatt amps more than the music...
 
My new amp will probably get .5 of a watt into the abyss. It does have a speaker out which will put put 6 watts into 8 ohms,
I have no concerns with it's ability to drive the abyss.

I've tried three computers,4 dacs, all with the Taurus, and then 5 different amps in the same chains to check, and the Taurus was the problem. I recorded the distortion on my iphone and sent it to Joe of JPS labs/Abyss Headphones, and he reckoned it was a lack of power from the Taurus. This is in Balanced mode, which puts out 1200mw into 32 ohm. In single ended mode, which as you said puts 4500mw into 32 ohm I don't get the clipping, just some distortion in the bass (heavy bass, minimal techno stuff) at high listening levels. With a more powerful amp in play I don't get any clipping/distortion at any listening level so its not a problem with the headphones. My Taurus works very well with my other headphones, so there isn't something wrong with the amp, its just a lack of power from it for the Abyss. Unless you can think of something else that it might be, but I've tried everything I can think of. 
 
More definitely isn't always better, and I agree the need for power gets overstated a lot. I can only speak from my personal experience, and that is that the Abyss seems to benefit from a powerful amp.

 

[Xecuter]

Does your taurus work fine with other headphones?

 

[ufospls2]

  I've tried three computers,4 dacs, all with the Taurus, and then 5 different amps in the same chains to check, and the Taurus was the problem. I recorded the distortion on my iphone and sent it to Joe of JPS labs/Abyss Headphones, and he reckoned it was a lack of power from the Taurus. This is in Balanced mode, which puts out 1200mw into 32 ohm. In single ended mode, which as you said puts 4500mw into 32 ohm I don't get the clipping, just some distortion in the bass (heavy bass, minimal techno stuff) at high listening levels. With a more powerful amp in play I don't get any clipping/distortion at any listening level so its not a problem with the headphones. My Taurus works very well with my other headphones, so there isn't something wrong with the amp, its just a lack of power from it for the Abyss. Unless you can think of something else that it might be, but I've tried everything I can think of. 
 
More definitely isn't always better, and I agree the need for power gets overstated a lot. I can only speak from my personal experience, and that is that the Abyss seems to benefit from a powerful amp.

 

[Xecuter]

Sorry, somehow missed that bit.
 
Yeh really weird. I do not believe that can be due to lack of grunt. Sorry for your issue :/
 
Edit: Have you ever had someone else with a different abyss try it?

 

[Beolab]

The reason he is getting clipping is not due to the amp. A Taurus is like 4.5 watts into 32 ohms, the clipping noted here is due to some other reason.
I've heard the Taurus with the Abyss and it is actually a really decent pairing. 
I will write more on this, but there is a serious misunderstanding of what kind of headroom is required here... Also a misconception that more is always better?
Even with the he-6, people get so fixated on megawatt amps more than the music...

My new amp will probably get .5 of a watt into the abyss. It does have a speaker out which will put put 6 watts into 8 ohms,
I have no concerns with it's ability to drive the abyss.

What i wrote is general speaking on how a amp working together with a speaker, but maybe you guys believe in some holy grail theory, but i believe in mathematics and facts.

Then yes it could be something wrong with the Taurus also, but from the description of Paul i highly doubt it, because it just clips when he play more demanding music and on mid to high level.

 

[Xecuter]

Based on mathematics and facts?
 
 

It got about 15 volts or 3.2 watts @ 46 Ohms load, so when your music are playing on 85 db listening level it demands 1 watts of power measured & 60Hz, but if the music maybe got a bass tune that demands 3,3 watts to reproduce 85 db @ 30Hz then the Taurus are going to hit the seeling because it cant deliver what it is demanded to, and it distort and start clipping straight away.
So you are playing on the red line all the time when you got mid to high listening levels.
Your Abyss does not draw 46 Ohms resistance consistently, it is just an average measuring figure, so it can fall or increase depending on the music and vol. level.

3w?? Unfortunately this shows you have no real concept of any of this. I literally can't be bothered explaining how wrong you are.
I like you Beolab, your reviews have been interesting.
 
But this insanity has got to stop. The raving about these amps: Egoista and headtrip, wa234 needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
The Egoista is overly coloured and no where near a resolving or detailed amp, the head-trip is seriously overpriced and filled with cheap components and based on an unstable topology not to mention very average transformer. The wa234 is total overkill. Moon have a tendency to use nice parts implemented poorly but I have not heard the 600i to fairly comment..
These amps may sound decent to you, but you guys needs to think about what you are paying for! (usually nice case work!)
 
Enjoy what you want lads. I love the Abyss like most here. Just tread carefully because all these megawatt amps aren't better than well made cheaper, less powerful alternatives. Every company is out to sell something.
 
My old test o2 doesn't clip with Abyss. o2>Taurus?
The chord dave also drives the Abyss remarkable well, even thought it is less powerful than a magni...
Xec

 

[Beolab]

I rest my case to argue on a amateur level sadly. If you guys are happy with your gear and believes , then im happy for you.

Please carrie on

 

[ufospls2]

  Based on mathematics and facts?
 
 
3w?? Unfortunately this shows you have no real concept of any of this. I literally can't be bothered explaining how wrong you are.
I like you Beolab, your reviews have been interesting.
 
But this insanity has got to stop. The raving about these amps: Egoista and headtrip, wa234 needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
The Egoista is overly coloured and no where near a resolving or detailed amp, the head-trip is seriously overpriced and filled with cheap components and based on an unstable topology not to mention very average transformer. The wa234 is total overkill. Moon have a tendency to use nice parts implemented poorly but I have not heard the 600i to fairly comment..
These amps may sound decent to you, but you guys needs to think about what you are paying for! (usually nice case work!)
 
Enjoy what you want lads. I love the Abyss like most here. Just tread carefully because all these megawatt amps aren't better than well made cheaper, less powerful alternatives. Every company is out to sell something.
 
My old test o2 doesn't clip with Abyss. o2>Taurus?
The chord dave also drives the Abyss remarkable well, even thought it is less powerful than a magni...
Xec

whoa guys I didn't mean to start a fight or cause tension. 
 
 
The above is why I am finding that the search for a new amp is so hard. Either people love an amp, or its a piece of crap thats poorly made with cheap components. Its hard to figure out what the truth actually is about amps. I suppose the only way to know is to listen for myself when I get a chance. I thought the Taurus would be more than enough for the Abyss, but I can only go with my personal experience and that is that in balanced especially it just doesn't have enough power for the volume (and music type) I *sometimes* listen at. At lower volumes its superb. With my other headphones it is superb at all volumes, including the LCD-4 which also needs a bit more power than most headphones. I haven't heard another pair of Abyss with my Taurus, which would be the last variable I could try, but I'm the only Abyss owner I know of in my area. 
 
Xecuter, what amp would you recommend for the Abyss out of curiosity? 

 

[Beolab]

This is the last time i will try to help anyone in this thread. I only work with this professionally every day, and i described in short why a amp start clipping in general.

And to Paul, take your Abyss to a HiFi store and try them out with a different amp is my recommendation.

 

[ufospls2]

This is the last time i will try to help anyone in this thread. I only work with this professionally every day, and i described in short why a amp start clipping in general.

And to Paul, take your Abyss to a HiFi store and try them out with a different amp is my recommendation.

Thanks Fredrik The Canadian distributor for Wells Audio said they may be able to send a Wells Audio headphone amp into my city so I can try it out (not sure which amp though.) I'll let you know how it goes. Looking forward to hearing it 

 

[bigfatpaulie]

This is the last time i will try to help anyone in this thread. I only work with this professionally every day, and i described in short why a amp start clipping in general.

And to Paul, take your Abyss to a HiFi store and try them out with a different amp is my recommendation.

 
 
Please don't: there are many of us that appreciate and value your experience and advice.

 

[Xecuter]

This is the last time i will try to help anyone in this thread. I only work with this professionally every day, and i described in short why a amp start clipping in general.

And to Paul, take your Abyss to a HiFi store and try them out with a different amp is my recommendation.

 
Beolab, as I said, I also appreciate your advice/impression and take interest in your words.
 
As far as amp recommendations go Paul, I enjoyed the wa5 and wa234 (marginally better). I have managed to get a decent sound out of my ragnarok but the amp has major issues I can't get past. I couldn't find a SS amp that could compete with wa5 or wa234.
 
So my next experiment is to basically have the best components/topography and tubes money can buy. The tribute transformers, the AVVT tubes have cost me an absolute fortune but this is legendary stuff by a world class amp designer. I really just wanted the most resolving and detailed amp I could have built and I will try find a source that keeps it musical.
 
Stuff like soundstage/separation are impossible to measure. If this doesn't beat the wa234 in a side by side comparison I guess I will sell all my stuff and just get a wa234.
 
Xec

 

[bigfatpaulie]

   
. If this doesn't beat the wa234 in a side by side comparison I guess I will sell all my stuff and just get a wa234.
 
Xec

 
You prefer the WA234 to the Studio?