[nassq8]

  Hi all, I am new in head-fi.
Wanna seek some advice before my Abyss arrived. Anyone have tried to use Totaldac d1 dual to drive Abyss? Is it powerful enough to drive it via the xlr output(6.2 Vrms max)? I have tried the headphone out(3.1 Vrms max) to drive the lcd 4(100 ohm version), and not much headroom left.
 
I am also going to get a cable for abyss, anyone tried Norne Audio Silvergarde?

 
I'm also confused here, using HP power calculator, 6.2 Vmrs at 46 ohm translated to max power  of 835.65 mW and  a current of 134.78 mA. Abyss, thus as per its specifications, needs only 3.16 mW and 8.29 mA to reach for example 90 dB level, which is so loud BTW.
 
Despite the above fact, such max power and current do not cut it to drive Abyss with authority, at leas for my ear!!! Why does that happen, while Abyss only needs a fraction of power and current flows (3.16 mW and 8.29 mA) to reach the targeted 90 dB?
 
Am I missing something here or misunderstanding the fundamental concepts of how HP is powered ? 

 

[Torq]

   
I'm also confused here, using HP power calculator, 6.2 Vmrs at 46 ohm translated to max power  of 835.65 mW and  a current of 134.78 mA. Abyss, thus as per its specifications, needs only 3.16 mW and 8.29 mA to reach for example 90 dB level, which is so load BTW.
 
Despite the above fact, such max power and current do not cut it to drive Abyss with authority, at leas for my ear!!! Why does that happen, while Abyss only needs a fraction of power and current flows (3.16 mW and 8.29 mA) to reach the targeted 90 dB?
 
Am I missing something here or misunderstanding the fundamental concepts of how HP is powered ? 

Unless stated otherwise, the quoted sensitivity/efficiency and impedance numbers tend to be for a 1 KHz signal.  Since power requirements of any transducer tend to vary with frequency it's quite possible that frequencies above or, especially, below that, require more power.
 
With planar magnetic headphones, like the Abyss, you don't generally see deviations in impedance at different frequencies, though that's an additional complicating factor with dynamic cans.
 
In general, my experience has been that the more power available, the more headroom you have and the more breathing room the amplifier/power supply has in keeping up with the demands of the headphone when actually playing music (rather than a single-frequency test tone).
 
I do know that my LCD-4, for example, sound much better with my WA5LE on it's "High Power" setting (about 7 watts available at 200 ohms), even though the "Low Power" setting can drive them to ear-splitting levels.

 

[Beolab]

The Abyss and LCD-4 needs power to gain the right headroom and sing out like it was intended to from the developer as already stated by Torq.

I have a a lot of high end speaker and headphones rigs back home, but i have placed an order on a Tesla car, so i need to sell of some of my beloved high end gear.

So if anyone wants to buy a New 6 weeks old Ultra High End Wells Audio HeadTrip amp for a nice price, then just send me a PM.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/807062/new-wells-audio-headtrip-headphone-ultra-high-end-balanced-amp-only-6-weeks-old/0_50#post_12554290

 

[nassq8]

 
Unless stated otherwise, the quoted sensitivity/efficiency and impedance numbers tend to be for a 1 KHz signal.  Since power requirements of any transducer tend to vary with frequency it's quite possible that frequencies above or, especially, below that, require more power.
 
With planar magnetic headphones, like the Abyss, you don't generally see deviations in impedance at different frequencies, though that's an additional complicating factor with dynamic cans.
 
In general, my experience has been that the more power available, the more headroom you have and the more breathing room the amplifier/power supply has in keeping up with the demands of the headphone when actually playing music (rather than a single-frequency test tone).
 
I do know that my LCD-4, for example, sound much better with my WA5LE on it's "High Power" setting (about 7 watts available at 200 ohms), even though the "Low Power" setting can drive them to ear-splitting levels.

 
Thanks for your elaboration. Well then based on that, it should be better to have a way to average out sensitivity/efficiency and impedance  throughout the entire spectrum of audio frequency, if manufacturers want to introduce more solid fact about their HP! Or at least pick the toughest point on frequency where the power and current are  most needed, and publish it as reference for sensitivity/efficiency and impedance. 

 

[mulder01]

I think people are missing the point of the question - the totaldac does not have a balanced headphone output - he wanted to run the abyss off the line outs.

 

[isquirrel]

Good evening guys, listening to the soundtrack from Sicario, its intense, dark and brooding. Perfect material for a late night listening session.
 
​Its on Qobuz and Tidal http://listen.tidal.com/album/50958085

 

[potkettleblack]

[COLOR=373E4D]Good evening guys, listening to the soundtrack from Sicario, its intense, dark and brooding. Perfect material for a late night listening session.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=373E4D]​Its on Qobuz[/COLOR] and Tidal http://listen.tidal.com/album/50958085

Watched that film a month ago and wanted to get the soundtrack for that scene with the motorway, with the birdseye shot - really eerie deep, ambient music. Thanks for reminding me.

 

[isquirrel]

I think you are looking at the line level xlr outputs for connecting the dac to an amp, you'd need to use the amplified 1/4 inch headphone jack output for headphones.

I mean, definitely try it through the totaldac - it might be perfectly fine. Abyss should come with an adapter to 1/4 inch plug.

I'd try it before making any decisions on what to buy next but yeah, it looks like the totaldac doesn't have a balanced headphone out - I wouldn't put an adapter on the XLR line outs and put headphones onto them... Perhaps someone can advise if that would do any damage or just be not excellent - I assume the current would be very low even if the voltage is sufficient...

I have a good friend who used to have that DAC. I would contact the DAC builder (Vincent) before running anything out of the XLR outputs. I know my friend did have some success with running Headphones direct out of the XLR outputs. I am pretty sure the output impedance is low enough to work okay. His was the TotalDAC d1-Dual, the one down from the twelve. He ended up selling it and buying DAVE, that will run both he Abyss and the LCD-4 no problem single ended from the Headphone output. 
 
Vincent is a good guy and will help you out. You will not get the headroom you will need to drive the Abyss properly though out of the XLR outputs, I suspect you will either end up selling it or having to buy an amp.

 

[Chichiba]

 
I have a good friend who used to have that DAC. I would contact the DAC builder (Vincent) before running anything out of the XLR outputs. I know my friend did have some success with running Headphones direct out of the XLR outputs. I am pretty sure the output impedance is low enough to work okay. His was the TotalDAC d1-Dual, the one down from the twelve. He ended up selling it and buying DAVE, that will run both he Abyss and the LCD-4 no problem single ended from the Headphone output. 
 
Vincent is a good guy and will help you out. You will not get the headroom you will need to drive the Abyss properly though out of the XLR outputs, I suspect you will either end up selling it or having to buy an amp.

 
Thanks isquirrel, you're right, maybe I need an amp eventually. I did a test on the XLR outputs with the LCD 4 and the adapters. It doesn't have much more power than the SE headphone out, it's out of my expectation. It's just a bit more headroom, which is enough for the LCD 4 (version 1) but most likely not for the Abyss or LCD4 version 2
 
To fund the new amp, maybe I have to sell my stax 009 first, if anyone wants it, just leave me a pm (sorry, I cannot post to FS forums because I am too new)

 

[Chichiba]

Did anyone compare liquid gold and mass kobo394 on abyss? Sorry, this thread is too long, difficult to find...

 

[mulder01]

I only remember one guy on here who heard the Mass Kobo stuff - just did a search for it it's back on page 69 of this thread and also he started a mass kobo 394 thread as well.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/711879/mass-ko-bo-394-new-high-end-amp-for-power-hungry-headphone-like-abyss-1266

 

[arnaud]

Never tried a planar with my D1-six but I don't think it's recommanded to drive low impedance phones, more like 150+ ohms.

Having said that, staying away from this dac because it doesn't drive headphone directly is just plain silly imo.

First, if you're spending that much money on the source and phones, you should perhaps have a budget for an amp.

Second, driving phones directly from the dac output is a myth except for very very few dacs out there (top flight msb, d1-twelve), doesn't the dave also include active circuitry to interface the phones? Totaldac just released a dac dedicated to headphone enthusiasts (phone output is an afterthought on all of his dacs with the headphone out on the back panel), but again here, it has active circuitry between the ladder output and the heaphone out in order to handle a wide range of loads with sufficient headroom.

Arnaud

 

[Chichiba]

Thanks a lot

Never tried a planar with my D1-six but I don't think it's recommanded to drive low impedance phones, more like 150+ ohms.

Having said that, staying away from this dac because it doesn't drive headphone directly is just plain silly imo.

First, if you're spending that much money on the source and phones, you should perhaps have a budget for an amp.

Second, driving phones directly from the dac output is a myth except for very very few dacs out there (top flight msb, d1-twelve), doesn't the dave also include active circuitry to interface the phones? Totaldac just released a dac dedicated to headphone enthusiasts (phone output is an afterthought on all of his dacs with the headphone out on the back panel), but again here, it has active circuitry between the ladder output and the heaphone out in order to handle a wide range of loads with sufficient headroom.

Arnaud

, yes, I am going to get an amp, but it's really difficult to try liquid gold or mass kobo in hong kong. I used to have violectric v281, now I regreted I sold it.

 

[arnaud]

Thanks a lot
, yes, I am going to get an amp, but it's really difficult to try liquid gold or mass kobo in hong kong. I used to have violectric v281, now I regreted I sold it.

Not sure you must restrain yourself to fotm amp to pair with a planar headphone like the abyss. The purely resistive load (~50 ohm for many planars) means you don't really need a fancy amp, why don't you try the amps at the dealer first and keep an open mind? Also, is it any easier to audition the sources like TotalDAC? I would not think so since products are sold direct to avoid escalating costs of traditional retail system.
 
For the TotalDAC, ask vincent anyhow about the load because, officially, his dacs are supposed to handle loads in 32-600 ohms range. The XLR output on the amp are typically over 5V rms, which may be enough to get the abyss loud enough if the DAC can handle the load without distorting.
 
For reference, I am presently using a friend's HD800s out of the headphone out from my D1-six and cannot go beyond -15dB or so in level before it gets annoyingly load (typically more around -25 to -20dB).
The headphone spec is 106dB/V which translates into 96dB/mW assuming 350 ohm impedance (varies with frequency but this is ball park).
 
In comparison, the Abyss is 85dB/mW so about 10dB quieter than the Sennheiser which means I would also probably not be able to pleasantly listen to it using my DAC without attenuating the output.
So, assuming the DAC can handle the 46 Ohm resistive load, I would presume you could make the abyss sing fairly loud from the DAC XLR out.
 
cheers,
arnaud

 

[galacticsoap]

  Good evening guys, listening to the soundtrack from Sicario, its intense, dark and brooding. Perfect material for a late night listening session.
 
​Its on Qobuz and Tidal http://listen.tidal.com/album/50958085

 
WOW - listening to it right now. Brilliantly dark.