[Womaz]

Thanks for the review, I was thinking of getting the FS/P stack as well, in England it is super expensive £6000+ , still unsure though for the extra 3.3%

What genre of music did you try it with?

Side note - how is FS/P with verite open?

I also think it appears difficult to get it here in England.

 

[MasterZen]

I also think it appears difficult to get it here in England.

Definitely is the case, I think there is only 1 supplier up in Glasglow that does them

 

[deuter]

Definitely is the case, I think there is only 1 supplier up in Glasglow that does them

And you need more because? In Australia too we have only one supplier.
It’s not a mainstream Apple or Samsung product as you know.

 

[MasterZen]

And you need more because? In Australia too we have only one supplier.
It’s not a mainstream Apple or Samsung product as you know.

Easier to build a relationship with dealers on products if you have more dealers to choose from

 

[TheMiddleSky]

[Re-posted from the Formula S thread)

I finally had the chance to do a volume-matched comparison between the FS/P (TT2/M-scaler on DAC duty via superconductor V RCA) and the TT2 dual XLR3 output (with Moon Audio female-to-female XLR3 adapters). The headphone is the 1266 TC + Superconductor HP cable. I struggled with whether I should sell my FS/P stack to free up some funds and try something new (maybe the CRBN?) but I don't think I will be doing that anytime soon.

I used a sound level meter and several test tones (40hz, 250 hz, 1 khz, 2.5 khz ) to make sure the TT2 and FS were matched.

Bass. The FS just gives more present and impactful bass than the TT2. You can feel the oscillations of bass tones and even more sub-bass rumble. It's on full display here. Some people talk about bass "grip" and I've always wondered what that referred to. I think I'm starting to understand now, maybe. This doesn't appear to be related to pure power, as TT2 outputs many more watts from its dual XLR compared to the FS. The FS does a better job displaying the TC's bass technicalities and prowess, and it does so effortlessly.

Mids: Vocals feel slightly warmer, and slightly more forward. Tonally, I'm hearing more body overall. The TT2 conversely does mids with a tiny bit more brightness (and probably correctness) and seems to have an edge in microdetail. The TT2 has a better ability to render actual vocalizations (word-forming, spit bubbles popping, etc).

Treble: I'd give this to the TT2, which treats treble a little more delicately. Let's take the hi-hat for example. On some tracks, the TT2 really nails the metallic vibration and coarseness of a drumstick against the hi-hat. The FS seems to focus more on the impact itself with less of the sizzle (more attack, less decay if you will). It might as well be a wooden spoon against that hi-hat. Again, not as delicate as the TT2's handling, and not as realistic. Keep in mind this is with the superconductor HP cable, which to my ears, already imparts a smoother and more subdued treble experience compared not the stock cable, which allowed a little too much energy in that region for my tastes. Who knows, maybe the Formula S actually tones down the stock cable treble juuuuust the right amount and inches it closer to the TT2's handling.

The Formula S / Powerman combo really makes a lot of sense in the context of the TC. I can see why it's been said that this amp tuned for this specific headphone, since it augments its best feature (the bass), while improving on its main two sonic flaws: the recessed and distant mids, relative to the bass/treble; and the (occasionally) excessive treble energy.

As for other factors like soundstage dimensions, I honestly can't tell the difference -- it's like comparing humongous vs enormous. Let's say it's a tie.

What all this means to me is that as long as I own a 1266 TC, the Formula S / Powerman will stay with it. The TT2 is still impressive and very capable of driving the 1266, but we're talking about obtaining that last 3.298% of peak performance, and I'm fairly confident the Formula S unlocks that (without my having to pay an absurd amount for a WA33). YMMV of course

Superb impression there. I just compared FS/P and TT2 too few days ago, and I think my result 90% the same as you (Using Diana Phi).

The only differences are:
- Soundstage definitely wider with FS/P, not miles away different, but noticeable.
- TT2 alone produce more fluid/effortless feel, could be because of better treble performance on TT2.

 

[dudeX]

[Re-posted from the Formula S thread)

I finally had the chance to do a volume-matched comparison between the FS/P (TT2/M-scaler on DAC duty via superconductor V RCA) and the TT2 dual XLR3 output (with Moon Audio female-to-female XLR3 adapters). The headphone is the 1266 TC + Superconductor HP cable. I struggled with whether I should sell my FS/P stack to free up some funds and try something new (maybe the CRBN?) but I don't think I will be doing that anytime soon.

I used a sound level meter and several test tones (40hz, 250 hz, 1 khz, 2.5 khz ) to make sure the TT2 and FS were matched.

Bass. The FS just gives more present and impactful bass than the TT2. You can feel the oscillations of bass tones and even more sub-bass rumble. It's on full display here. Some people talk about bass "grip" and I've always wondered what that referred to. I think I'm starting to understand now, maybe. This doesn't appear to be related to pure power, as TT2 outputs many more watts from its dual XLR compared to the FS. The FS does a better job displaying the TC's bass technicalities and prowess, and it does so effortlessly.

Mids: Vocals feel slightly warmer, and slightly more forward. Tonally, I'm hearing more body overall. The TT2 conversely does mids with a tiny bit more brightness (and probably correctness) and seems to have an edge in microdetail. The TT2 has a better ability to render actual vocalizations (word-forming, spit bubbles popping, etc).

Treble: I'd give this to the TT2, which treats treble a little more delicately. Let's take the hi-hat for example. On some tracks, the TT2 really nails the metallic vibration and coarseness of a drumstick against the hi-hat. The FS seems to focus more on the impact itself with less of the sizzle (more attack, less decay if you will). It might as well be a wooden spoon against that hi-hat. Again, not as delicate as the TT2's handling, and not as realistic. Keep in mind this is with the superconductor HP cable, which to my ears, already imparts a smoother and more subdued treble experience compared to the stock cable, which allowed a little too much energy in that region for my tastes. Who knows, maybe the Formula S actually tones down the stock cable treble juuuuust the right amount and inches it closer to the TT2's handling.

The Formula S / Powerman combo really makes a lot of sense in the context of the TC. I can see why it's been said that this amp tuned for this specific headphone, since it augments its best feature (the bass), while improving on its main two sonic flaws: the recessed and distant mids, relative to the bass/treble; and the (occasionally) excessive treble energy.

As for other factors like soundstage dimensions, I honestly can't tell the difference -- it's like comparing humongous vs enormous. Let's say it's a tie.

What all this means to me is that as long as I own a 1266 TC, the Formula S / Powerman will stay with it. The TT2 is still impressive and very capable of driving the 1266, but we're talking about obtaining that last 3.298% of peak performance, and I'm fairly confident the Formula S unlocks that (without my having to pay an absurd amount for a WA33). YMMV of course

It might as well be a wooden spoon against that hi-hat.

When I first got the Drop Hifiman 5xx, every cymbal hit did sound wooden, like I can hear the stick itself, and the cymbal simultaneously. Having played drums before, you can only hear the wood if you strike it a certain way, but not generally. The effect went away after several hours of listening though, and the cymbals sounded like cymbals.

 

[DJJEZ]

IMO also The formula S and P has a much blacker Background compared to TT2 alone. It's one of the first things I noticed when I bought the formula S/P and compared both.

 

[jlbrach]

with the powerman the background is incredibly black it is one of the reasons the bass sounds more prominent and you hear more detail IMO...in terms of relative to other amps...you cannot beat the transparency of the dave or I suppose the tt2 on their own

 

[drew911d]

Uh, just received a NOS Amperex medical/technical grade tube labeled Tektronix 12au7 for my Riviera AIC-10 Amp. Awesome upgrade. So much more accurate representation from the mTT2. WOW, the sound is so amazing. All the detail of the TT2, plus the extra power of the amp. Extra oomph for the bass, bigger soundstage and more! I know I had a small writeup before, warmer and smaller (more accurate soundstage? Did I write that?) With the RT tube on the Riviera.

Well, I have to say, I'm impressed further. This AIC -10 is Super Amazing. I will have to try more tubes, mainly some high grade Mullard short term. Loving it so far. I'm still on the Phi, Not TC. Someday as funds allow I'll upgrade, but likely after I can upgrade my TT2 to DAVE (why I persued an external amp).

 

[qboogie]

Thanks for the review, I was thinking of getting the FS/P stack as well, in England it is super expensive £6000+ , still unsure though for the extra 3.3%

What genre of music did you try it with?

Side note - how is FS/P with verite open?

I went back and assessed the spatial qualities of the FS. I honestly prefer the TT2's overall abilities here. I agree that the TC does have more instrument separation and a wider stage. Also the image seems taller, as well. But the stage on the FS is sadly flatter in the anterior-posterior direction. I can offer a potential explanation for this loss of depth: maybe it's a combination of the mids being brought more forward, along with the stereo separation between instruments/sounds increasing mostly laterally on top of an already wide stage. On the song Lake Street Dive - Use Me Up and Postmodern Juke Box - Hey Ya!, the effect is that the back-up singers sound like they're at your 9- and 3 o'clock, instead of in front of you at your 10 and 2 (on the TT2). I hope that makes some sense. Overall the TT2's spatial handling seems to preserve more realism, which I do value over the stage being wider. I'll update my original post

Here is a playlist of the songs I used. There is a loose order to the songs, in a manner I don't care to describe. I listen to melodic/groovy vocal-heavy modern stuff that is usually danceable (I used to be a hip-hop dancer).

https://tidal.com/browse/playlist/88050727-9af1-4868-88d8-ff061a9bf9d1

And yes I have tried the Verite Open with the FS/P and it freaking hisses and hums. I honestly can't ignore it enough to give the VO a proper shot on the the FS/P. But given one of the VO's main gifts is its very holographic stage, I wouldn't recommend it knowing what I know now about how the FS flattens the stage.

 

[MatW]

And yes I have tried the Verite Open with the FS/P and it freaking hisses and hums.

I have this too, with easy to drive headphones like the Empyrean and Utopia. Very faint, in the background, but noticeable for me. Not a hiss or a hum, another electrical noise, hard to describe. A bit of a downside of the FS/P, to be honest. Great for the harder to drive HPs though.

 

[MasterZen]

I went back and assessed the spatial qualities of the FS. I honestly prefer the TT2's overall abilities here. I agree that the TC does have more instrument separation and a wider stage. Also the image seems taller, as well. But the stage on the FS is sadly flatter in the anterior-posterior direction. I can offer a potential explanation for this loss of depth: maybe it's a combination of the mids being brought more forward, along with the stereo separation between instruments/sounds increasing mostly laterally on top of an already wide stage. On the song Lake Street Dive - Use Me Up and Postmodern Juke Box - Hey Ya!, the effect is that the back-up singers sound like they're at your 9- and 3 o'clock, instead of in front of you at your 10 and 2 (on the TT2). I hope that makes some sense. Overall the TT2's spatial handling seems to preserve more realism, which I do value over the stage being wider. I'll update my original post

Here is a playlist of the songs I used. There is a loose order to the songs, in a manner I don't care to describe. I listen to melodic/groovy vocal-heavy modern stuff that is usually danceable (I used to be a hip-hop dancer).

https://tidal.com/browse/playlist/88050727-9af1-4868-88d8-ff061a9bf9d1

And yes I have tried the Verite Open with the FS/P and it freaking hisses and hums. I honestly can't ignore it enough to give the VO a proper shot on the the FS/P. But given one of the VO's main gifts is its very holographic stage, I wouldn't recommend it knowing what I know now about how the FS flattens the stage.

Awesome reply, many thanks.

Will check out that tidal playlist too, always good to try new music.

I've been hesitating about buying the FS/P, but maybe I dont need it at the moment. Perhaps will buy some more headphones instead to scratch that itch or a tube amp for the VO, I haven't bonded with it as well as I had hoped, should probably give it a chance before selling

 

[qboogie]

Uh, just received a NOS Amperex medical/technical grade tube labeled Tektronix 12au7 for my Riviera AIC-10 Amp. Awesome upgrade. So much more accurate representation from the mTT2. WOW, the sound is so amazing. All the detail of the TT2, plus the extra power of the amp. Extra oomph for the bass, bigger soundstage and more! I know I had a small writeup before, warmer and smaller (more accurate soundstage? Did I write that?) With the RT tube on the Riviera.

Well, I have to say, I'm impressed further. This AIC -10 is Super Amazing. I will have to try more tubes, mainly some high grade Mullard short term. Loving it so far. I'm still on the Phi, Not TC. Someday as funds allow I'll upgrade, but likely after I can upgrade my TT2 to DAVE (why I persued an external amp).

Have you tried any of the holy grail Sylvania Gold Brand tubes? I have a GB-6201 (black plate, 2 mica, gold pin) that sounds incredible that I can loan you. PM me if interested. It's compatible with 12AU7. This brand of tubes is known for having very rich and more forward mids -- never a bad thing to have more of that with the TC.

Would love to hear how it compares to your Amperex 12AU7. I also have a harder-to-find NOS GB-5751 (gray plate, 3 mica, steel pin) that hasn't been burned-in yet so can't comment on whether it's a better tube. According to Joe's Tube Lore, it's THE tube to get but I prefer the 6201 in my MHA200 for now.

 

[drew911d]

Have you tried any of the holy grail Sylvania Gold Brand tubes? I have a GB-6201 (black plate, 2 mica, gold pin) that sounds incredible that I can loan you. PM me if interested. It's compatible with 12AU7. This brand of tubes is known for having very rich and more forward mids -- never a bad thing to have more of that with the TC.

Would love to hear how it compares to your Amperex 12AU7. I also have a harder-to-find NOS GB-5751 (gray plate, 3 mica, steel pin) that hasn't been burned-in yet so can't comment on whether it's a better tube. According to Joe's Tube Lore, it's THE tube to get but I prefer the 6201 in my MHA200 for now.

The Amperex is only the second tube I've tried. The Riviera came to me with a Radiotechnique tube that has a more forward mids sound and smaller soundstage. It may be somewhat like the Sylvania you have. Very fun sounding tube, but I prefer the more transparent sound of the Amperex for now. It's so very close to the TT2 sound, but more impactfull and slightly fuller sound. Between those tubes it's similar to what you described as the difference between the FS and TT2.

Next tube I want to try is a Mullard. Many Riviera owners end up with Mullard as their fave.

I have yet to try my IEM with the Riviera. I want to try that just to see if I get any hiss. The Abyss Phi sounds so awesome with this amp. Highly recommend it.

I'm saving to upgrade my TT2 to a Dave, it's why I bought the amp, to be ready for it. Maybe 6 months yet to go...

I do want to collect more tubes to have for variety. I'll add the Sylvania to the list.

 

[Womaz]

As previously stated the TCs have literally blown me away, so I started researching a better DAC and Amp or an all in one suitable for them.
I have more or less decided on the Niimbus US5 Pro , with a Qutest. The Qutest may be a short term purchase but I needed to get an affordable DAC.

I just have a couple of concerns . The Niimbus is a Dual Mono amp, and the Qutest does not have Balanced topography. Will I be missing out on something by using RCA as opposed to full XLR implementation? If this is a basic or even a stupid question then accept my apologies in advance
Like my amp will be a fully Balanced amp......the Qutest is not.

Another concern is could the Niimbus - Qutest combination be a bit too revealing? I ask this as the TCs definitely have a bit of high energy at the top end and I am a little averse to this. I love them but they are very revealing. I guess some of the music I listen to might not be the best recorded material and the TCs do not mask this.
Has anyone used the above combination to drive their TCs.

Any guidance as always appreciated