[pp312]

Quote:

At max volume on my iPod Touch 3g, the HD 650 was loud enough to make me go deaf.
 
So yes, they would be decently powered by an audio receiver with a phono jack. A headphone amp just makes everything sound better.

Not necessarily, no. Not by any means. That's way too blanket a statement.

 

[Endless]

May I ask which statement was too blanket a statement?

 

[pp312]

"A headphone amp just makes everything sound better."

 

[Endless]

 
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I believe that the question that was asked was, "Would 650 owners say that a headphone amp is a must?" 
 
I don't know. I assumed that the person who asked the question was using a mediocre source such as a Realtek integrated soundcard or an iPod / iPhone. I merely responded to his question under the general assumption that he was using such sources. The HD 650's are very demanding headphones that need a lot of voltage to power. That's why I responded that an external amplifier would make everything better because there was nothing to go by in the first place.
 
I'm interested though. I'm not trying to be condescending or conceited, but what makes you say that? I've grew up on Head-Fi as a firm believer of headphone amp's, and through my journey with this hobby have listened to many amplifiers and have agreed that they do contribute a spectrum of difference in the quality of sound coming out from my headphones. Is there an alternative to a headphone amp that would make the HD 650's shine? I mean, the main point of your thread is that headphone amps do make a difference. I don't understand why you would disagree with such a statement from your attitude with your Cambridge Audio amp. 
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[carledwards]

Quote:

 
If the second is true, wouldn't that throw the first in doubt?
 

"Decently powered" would, by no means, be good enough for those cans, IMO.

 

[pp312]

 
Quote:

 

I believe that the question that was asked was, "Would 650 owners say that a headphone amp is a must?" 
 
I don't know. I assumed that the person who asked the question was using a mediocre source such as a Realtek integrated soundcard or an iPod / iPhone. I merely responded to his question under the general assumption that he was using such sources. The HD 650's are very demanding headphones that need a lot of voltage to power. That's why I responded that an external amplifier would make everything better because there was nothing to go by in the first place.
 
I'm interested though. I'm not trying to be condescending or conceited, but what makes you say that? I've grew up on Head-Fi as a firm believer of headphone amp's, and through my journey with this hobby have listened to many amplifiers and have agreed that they do contribute a spectrum of difference in the quality of sound coming out from my headphones. Is there an alternative to a headphone amp that would make the HD 650's shine? I mean, the main point of your thread is that headphone amps do make a difference. I don't understand why you would disagree with such a statement from your attitude with your Cambridge Audio amp. 
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Actually the main point of my thread is that synergy makes all the difference, that no matter how fine the quality of the amp, be it dedicated or integrated, if it isn't synergistic to the 650 it won't be satisfying. I owned an LD Mk V and I'm sure it's a fine amp, but it did nothing to address the muted treble of the 650, which is my only problem with it. This is why I set out to find an amp with opposite characteristics to the 650, lean and bright against flabby and warm. The 340 turned out to be ideal, and had the added benefit of tone controls that affected only the frequency extremes, allowing extreme treble boost without affecting lower frequencies--just what the 650 needs.
 
Now, the question of dedicated versus integrated/receivers. I've never cared for dedicated HP amps. I can't see the point. Those I've heard have left me unimpressed. They're often expensive and do nothing but power phones; if you've got speakers, and most people do, you need another amp. The best amps I've heard for phones have all been integrateds, like the Marantz PM8200. (Nad amps are great with phones, but not the 650; they're too warm--probably suit the AKG 702). I want something with tone controls and switching facilities, so unless dedicated amps can offer demonstrably superior sound, and none has demonstrated it to me yet, why would I bother? As a wise man once said, "An amp is an amp is an amp." There's no magic about a dedicated amp. If an integrated or receiver is well designed and uses good components it has every chance of sounding as good or better than a dedicated--end of story. People will of course say, "But the HP out is going through resistors; you'll get an impedance mismatch." Maybe that's true with low impedance phones (though I never heard it with my 50 ohm 595s), but we're dealing here with an ideal amp for the 650, which is virtually impervious to output impedance. The main disadvantage with integrateds, the only one I can see, is power consumption; you're burning a lot of power just to drive phones. A pity, and not very Green, but it's not going to discourage me from using integrateds.
 
Thanks for the non-argumentative tone of your post. If you've always been a dedicated amp man, I don't want to persuade you otherwise, just make clear where I'm coming from. (And I would direct you to another, recently revived thread that I started last year about the best sounding integrateds/receivers with phones).     

 

[pp312]

Quote:

"Decently powered" would, by no means, be good enough for those cans, IMO.

Indecently powered, perhaps? 

 

[Endless]

I see. This is the reason why I like these forums, we can resolve arguments like civilized individuals and learn something about it in the end. I'll keep your commentary of integrated DAC's in mind the next time I upgrade. 

 

 

[pp312]

Commentary? Yes, I must learn to be more succinct.

 

[spartan123]

i just went with my MPX3 and tube rolled till I found my match with the HD650's.  as I owned the amp already it just was a time factor for the tube rolling.  Nice thing is I can roll out the tubes for any of my different cans.  kind of like a swiss army amp,

 

[Satellite_6]

I'm sure +7 db at either end would make the 650s sound horrible. . . 
 
EDIT: I agree a contrasting source goes well with them tho. I have the unofficial new version which is not lacking in treble so a bright source would not be good.
 
The new tubes I bought for my amp changed the sound sig of my amp completely and now it sounds quite musical and engaging which contrasts the 650s analytical sig quite nicely.

 

[pp312]

Don't forget we're talking 20khz as the +7 point. This probably means the rise starts at around 8khz (I haven't actually seen a curve) and is perhaps no more than 4db at 15khz, which is above the limit of my hearing and possibly yours. In any case I advised setting the treble at 3 O'Clock, which is barely audible. In fact, a couple of 340 owners here have posted that they could hear no change even with the treble control at full, which confused me when I first read it--I actually questioned at the time how that could be. Now I understand better.    
 
The bass probably doesn't need any boost.
 
 
Quote:

I'm sure +7 db at either end would make the 650s sound horrible. . . 
 

 

[Satellite_6]

Oh. Honestly though, I think the bass is so much better when you turn it down according to the mid bass hump. . . that way the deepest bass is the same level as the rest of the bass and the bass does not drown out the mids.

 

[VonRip]

Thank you for your Cambridge Audio 340 SE insights, sounds like a good amp! Your point regarding computer based sonic correction is also well taken. I use my HD 650s as computer monitors running off of a Logitech 2.1 game system output (about 15 watts and is actually clean) connected to a HTPC. I use Magix mp3 maker and audio cleaning lab software. I only mention this as such a setup can provide an almost unlimited number of sonic adjustments and with such power the HD 650s really can perform well for those folks who don't mind just computer use.
 
I'm also in that 40 year club, good listening!

 

[pp312]

I probably should have qualified my remarks by making clear that I'm only addressing those like myself whose stereos and PCs are completely separate, and who wish them to remain so. Those using their 650s with computers have an infinite variety of adjustment; the rest of us have to rely on intelligent synergy, as in pre-PC days.