[BrainFood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover I do agree with glod the longer I listen to the GS-1 that the mpx3 just has a sense of ease, refinement or call it "tube magic" the GS-1 cant quite match. There is just a little more dimensionality, composure and resolution with the mpx3. Comparing the GS-1 to solid state amps even well above the GS-1's price is telling though. The GS-1 more than hold its own.

Yeah, but you are not comparing like with like (especially with the added MPX3 upgrades).
If the GS-1 is going to be compared to the Singlepowers, it should only be against the similarly priced PPX3 range.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrainFood Yeah, but you are not comparing like with like (especially with the added MPX3 upgrades). If the GS-1 is going to be compared to the Singlepowers, it should only be against the similarly priced PPX3 range.

The same superiority applies to the SLAM as well... I have the ppx3 SLAM too. In fact, I have had the SLAM longer than the GS-1. The mpx3 just has a little more extension at the frequency extremes vs the ppx3 SLAM

 

[Glod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpalmer Hi Glod, I have a pretty new GS-1 that has slowly been going through burn in. I've been comparing it against my upgraded V2-SE as a standard as the GS-1 runs through the burn in process. I haven't had a lot of time spend listening to it though. Your impressions are interesting to me in that my GS-1 had way too much bass out of the box. This is slowly disappearing as it burns in. Out of the box it had an OK upper end, though not as smooth as I was hoping for nor was it competitive with other offerings in the price range. The bass made my L3000s completely unlistenable to start with. Even with my Etys it was overwhelming. While it was the deepest bass I have ever heard out of the Etys, there was jsut too much of it. I found that the frequency balance was incredibly shifted toward the mids and the bass. This has pretty much gone away and the top end has improved drastically, to the point where it is probably in the same performance range as my upgraded V2-SE (even though it was less expensive). I think they will probably wind up being more alike than different if things keep going the way they have been. I really haven't done any critical listening yet, it needs more time to develop and I need to quit forgetting to leave it playing when I go to work. I find it interesting that our two units behaved so differently. I do have the stepped attenuator, but I wouldn't expect that to make this sort of a difference. Very strange....

Yeah, that is interesting. You know, one of my first thoughts was that it might be due to the transformer. Mine is a 240V and I thought, maybe it has different properties than the 120V one, considering that I didn't recognize the same burn-in developments in other's impressions. But, since it improved so much during the hours of use, I think, if that had been the case, why didn't have an audible significance in the end?

Then, my findings are strictly limited to the gear I used of course. The phones are properly burned in IMO, but e.g. the Y-cable between the RME card and the GS-1 was not. If I have had a well used example, the burn-in diary might have looked different. On the other hand, the interconnect between the amp and the CDP was well burned in, and the burn-in impressions over time were indistinguishably similar using the different cables and sources. Could it have to do with a synergy issue between the phones I use and the one's you are using?

In the end, what matters is of course the end result. I'm not convinced that the GS-1 has stopped to develop, although it appears to slow down in sonic change, now having about 160+hrs on it. But I would like to stress that I am very happy with it already. But the GS-1 is not a MPX3, and, a MPX3 is not a GS-1

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glod . But I would like to stress that I am very happy with it already. But the GS-1 is not a MPX3, and, a MPX3 is not a GS-1

Happiness with the amp is what matters and if your like me you wouldnt want them to sound the same.... but to compliment one another. I am glad your pleased.

 

[Glod]

Just to think out loudly. I have had strange, IMO, power related issues here in our house: Once I had a hum issue with an amp, which just seemed to disappear by it self after several days. And am sure that I sometimes hear changes in the sound, for no apparent reasons, while listening. Especially soundstage properties can change. Considered that I have burned in the GS-1 intensively during only one week, who knows...Maybe it all had to do with the local power grid here

 

[BrainFood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glod ..Maybe it all had to do with the local power grid here

Poor electricity effects digital gear the most, apparently...also what time you listen makes a difference.

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glod Yeah, that is interesting. You know, one of my first thoughts was that it might be due to the transformer. Mine is a 240V and I thought, maybe it has different properties than the 120V one, considering that I didn't recognize the same burn-in developments in other's impressions. But, since it improved so much during the hours of use, I think, if that had been the case, why didn't have an audible significance in the end?

Well, I'm guessing that you hit the nail on the head with the 240v explanation, though I don't understand why. Your description of the burn in process does match that of previous Gilmores I've had, particulary the Gilmore Lite v1. That one took forever to burn in and was quite lacking in bass for the first month. I was comparing that one against my V2 as a standard and it was quite similar to what you describe, no bass for a extended period then all of a sudden, the next day, just as much as the V2. The power supply really seems to make a big difference, which is not something I would have expected given how overbuilt the original design was. *shrug* whatever, so long as you're happy with it, that's all that really matters!

 

[Glod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpalmer Well, I'm guessing that you hit the nail on the head with the 240v explanation, though I don't understand why. Your description of the burn in process does match that of previous Gilmores I've had, particulary the Gilmore Lite v1. That one took forever to burn in and was quite lacking in bass for the first month. I was comparing that one against my V2 as a standard and it was quite similar to what you describe, no bass for a extended period then all of a sudden, the next day, just as much as the V2. The power supply really seems to make a big difference, which is not something I would have expected given how overbuilt the original design was. *shrug* whatever, so long as you're happy with it, that's all that really matters!

Thanks gpalmer for the “comforting” comparison

It is not the first time I claim to hear something others don't, and I am not talking about voices in my head. I almost started to think I really am wrongly wired up there this time

A few small speculations:

a)Did you use an aftermarket, high-quality, burned-in power cord in your burn-in's? I used a $5 piece I bought especially for the amp. I suppose it can't be excluded it changed in sonic signature along the road.

b) Did you burn in your Gilmore’s with a Gilmore Lite Dedicated PSU? That one might have many similarities to my GS-1 PSU.

c)Maybe HeadAmp had burned in your and SACD Lover's amps close to 150hrs before shipping, and what you heard out of the box is what awaits me now. Still, it doesn't explain the exaggerated bass in your amp. I can't possibly describe my GS-1 bass as overly powerful.

Since my amp now seems finished with dramatic sonic changes, and that I think it sounds very good, this all doesn’t mean that much anymore. But it still tickles my curiosity.

I think the most likely cause is the PSU or some kind of synergy issue. Who knows what HeadAmp had to change when adopting to a 230V version? Other brand of transformer, other caps, resistors, entire PSU network (OK, not very likely)?

 

[gpalmer]

a) I used one of the power cords from the Quail group buy. They are nice solid construction, but they aren't designer cables, just a very solidly constructed 12 gauge power cable. I'm not sure if the cable had been used or if it was new, but if it was used it probably wasn't a lot of time. I think I grabbed a brand new one out of my box o' cables when it came in instead of using the supplied one. I haven't noticed any real sonic changes with these Quail power cords as they get burned in.

b) I have the original Gilmore Lite. There was no upgrade power supply available for them, just an Elpac wall wart.

c) I don't think so. I took one he had sitting around so I could get it quicker. Justin said it had about 3 or 4 hours of play time on it which really agrees with the magnitude of the changes I have heard. If the amp had 150 hours run time on it I don't think it would be changing as much as this one has.

I have a feeling that we are going to wind up in the same place sonically in the end once I get some more time on my amp. It certainly seems to be heading in the right direction. It would be interesting to see if other 240 volt users have the same experience as you.

 

[Glod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpalmer ..."It would be interesting to see if other 240 volt users have the same experience as you.

Indeed. There is not much feedback on influences OEM 220-240V conversions might have had on (American) originally 120v amps. That goes for all applicable amps, SS as well as tube. Could be interesting reading. These users need to come forward.

Share your experiences!

EDIT. gpalmer, please let us know what your impressions, in the end, were during the burn-in period.

 

[Glod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpalmer a) I used one of the power cords from the Quail group buy. They are nice solid construction, but they aren't designer cables, just a very solidly constructed 12 gauge power cable. I'm not sure if the cable had been used or if it was new, but if it was used it probably wasn't a lot of time. I think I grabbed a brand new one out of my box o' cables when it came in instead of using the supplied one. I haven't noticed any real sonic changes with these Quail power cords as they get burned in.

Allright, not very likely then my $5 cable would have any dramatic traits during burn-in.

Quote:

b) I have the original Gilmore Lite. There was no upgrade power supply available for them, just an Elpac wall wart.

Dedicated PSU ruled out

Quote:

c) I don't think so. I took one he had sitting around so I could get it quicker. Justin said it had about 3 or 4 hours of play time on it which really agrees with the magnitude of the changes I have heard. If the amp had 150 hours run time on it I don't think it would be changing as much as this one has.

Makes sence.

Yes, burn-in is of course a costly process. Besides a basic functionality check, I don't think many manufacturers are really baking the equipment before it goes out the door.

[size=small]Thanks gpalmer. Great info.[/size]

 

[gpalmer]

Well, the GS-1 has had some more time to burn in and it's really coming into it's own now. It's going to be very, very interesting to compare it to the upgraded V2-SE (Black Gates, Silver Wire, V1 LED bias, 42 position attenuator). Sort of a depressing thought since I paid about 50% more for the V2-SE. D'Oh!!!! I have been planning to use the V2-SE mostly as a preamp and I think this will push that decision along. I haven't compared them directly yet but I have switched between them in the same listening session. I think the GS-1 certainly holds its own and might actually be better, based on my quick surface level comparisons. I'm still trying to avoid any judgements so far, and a lot more work needs to be done before I'm ready to commit but hey, I'm human and it's hard not to have some thoughts on the two when you switch between them.

 

[Glod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpalmer Well, the GS-1 has had some more time to burn in and it's really coming into it's own now. It's going to be very, very interesting to compare it to the upgraded V2-SE (Black Gates, Silver Wire, V1 LED bias, 42 position attenuator).

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpalmer Well, the GS-1 has had some more time to burn in and it's really coming into it's own now. It's going to be very, very interesting to compare it to the upgraded V2-SE (Black Gates, Silver Wire, V1 LED bias, 42 position attenuator).

Maybe I’m jumping in the wrong box now, but the V2-SE; it did have the same Gilmore Class A circuitry modules as the GS-1 has, didn’t it?

What seems to be the critical factor with the GS-1 is the PSU. If then the GS-1 would sound better than the V2-SE with all the upgrades mentioned, it has to be a h__l of a PSU

Really, if the GS-1 beats your V2-SE, Headamp must have done some major re-work on their standard construction approach. I cannot wait till I will hear your verdict about the two amps, when you´re ready for the final round.

BTW. My GS-1 did not present any more dramatic changes after about 170hrs. After that there were only some more air and transparency, thus better sense of the acoustical space. Only is a too negative word here. The amp has an open, refined and yes warm sound. However, not warm in the sense of a bothering rolled off treble, no, it is a seductive warmth, but with adequate definition, that is very appealing. It is simply a very sensual amp!

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glod Maybe I’m jumping in the wrong box now, but the V2-SE; it did have the same Gilmore Class A circuitry modules as the GS-1 has, didn’t it?

Well, they weren't modules it used a board with no modules but it was the Gilmore Dynamic design.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glod What seems to be the critical factor with the GS-1 is the PSU. If then the GS-1 would sound better than the V2-SE with all the upgrades mentioned, it has to be a h__l of a PSU Really, if the GS-1 beats your V2-SE, Headamp must have done some major re-work on their standard construction approach.

Yup, Justin did a lot of work on the power supply for this version, I believe it was a complete redesign. It really seems to have paid off handsomely for them, and I'm a tough sell since I really love the V2-SE and in light of my personal preferences, it really hit the spot with me better than anything I have heard in single-ended amplifers in the price range.

 

[sft]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpalmer I really love the V2-SE and in light of my personal preferences, it really hit the spot with me better than anything I have heard in single-ended amplifers in the price range.

The PSU of V2-SE is very good, especially for this amp ckt.