[DoYouRight]

John just needs to spank whoever did the machining on this batch, they obviously are not doing any QC or the people are going blind.

 

[strid3r]

Quote:

Originally Posted by userlander /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, they sound great, right? So why should you care? In fact, why not get a piece of sharp metal and make some more marks and scratches on them. It won't affect the sound any. P.S. Don't try to sell them on ebay or the forums without mentioning the cosmetic flaws (for which all buyers will expect a steep discount) -- you'll get reamed. It's only acceptable when it comes from Grado Labs that way. Cheers!

Taking my steak knife to it right now. Cheers!

On a serious note, does anyone else have those marks? I read about the typo before even opening the box and didn't really care one way or the other, but I was hoping for some nice finished cups...

 

[roy_jones]

I think it's very likely that both Todd and JG were aware of the misprint and decided that it wasn't a significant enough issue to warrant taking greater action.

I'm surprised that there doesn't seem to be greater awareness that a lot of these smaller audio companies are 'boutique' operations, with all of the positives and negatives that go along with that.

I've observed Grado's operations for a while now. This issue doesn't surprise me at all. I think one's response to this issue is largely determined by how aware one is of the reality that Grado is, in many ways, a small step above being hobbyist headphone builder.

You've got a situation where a headphone is unveiled before it has started being produced. People order the headphones and the limited capacity of Grado's production rate are rapidly exceeded. Grado gets feedback about the quality of the engravings from the first 'sample run' of headphones and has to delay production to try to correct it.

The outsourced engraving business messes up the engraving process. Grado realizes that he's already way behind in being able to fill orders in a timely fashion. He makes a decision to go forward anyways and start shipping the wrongly engraved headphones.

It's a cost/benefit analysis with the magnitude of the error on one hand, and the potential for an even greater extended delay on the other.

In retrospect, Grado's mistake was in releasing the HF-2 before he had a stock of headphones ready for shipment. I think there were a number of reasons for this, with most of them being economic in nature. I've expressed my 'theory' in an earlier post.

Ultimately, if you apply a standard that is suited for a mass production product to Grado's, I'm afraid you're not likely to end up happy. The question becomes: who is responsible for the variations in quality control that you see with a product that is essentially made by a small speciality business? I said the same thing in the Jerry Harvey thread when someone was complaining about the level of finishing of his new IEM, the JH13pro.

I think part of the problem has been the more recent popularity of head-fi and the expectations of consumers who are not familiar with the specialized nature of many of these products. I've questioned whether head-fi is growing too fast as a result of the dissatisfaction that seems to accompany this misalignment of expectations and standards that arises when people are coming from the quality control standards of mass market products.


I'm not a Grado fan-boy. I've wished many times that there was a mass production option that could capture the same sound signature that Grado's do because of these exact types of problems. But there isn't.

Some people will say "they're expensive enough to warrant mass production quality standards", regardless of whether they're produced under those conditions.

I believe that if you have a set of expectations that is not sensitive to the reality of Grado's specialized and boutique-like operations, you're bound to be disappointed. Who is responsible for that disappointment? Is it Grado?

Well, I do think he is responsible for the lack of a margin-of-error he accepted to be able to bring these to market that made this mistake possible.

At the same time, I think it's naive of a consumer to fail to account for the reality of Grado's business model. It's not like it's changed all of a sudden or is different now than it has been in the past.

 

[gjkphd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ordered on June 3rd, so I have skin in this game. The execution of this "Special Edition: is not something I could be proud of it it was my company. I have 4 Grados presently. I pointed out the BS of the Audio-GD execution that is about the same level "of feed them Swill, they'll lap it up" method of product delivery. The difference in that thread is the manufacturer comes clean on his screwups and fixes them. What you are pointing out is that there are two product lines that I like a lot, but I'm not blindly giving them the FANBOY salute. They screw up, there should be hell to pay. I don't understand why more people don't fell insulted frankly. Don't you feel like a Rube?

I don't think there's been any response yet from the manufacturer.

It's the 'hell to pay' part I'm reacting to. At least in print that comes across to me as an intense reaction that I do not share. And no, I don't feel like a Rube. Like I said, if I knew a particular manufacturer had a history of shoddy workmanship or poor quality control I'd stay away from them. It's your choice not to do that and you have every right to express your dissappointment. I get that. But my perspective is that this is a hobby for me, I like to listen to music, and I don't feel as bent out of shape as some about this lettering issue.

 

[DoYouRight]

I don't see any PS1000's with typos, so that is not the case. It was a messup and stuff happens, Im sure they will fix it. And B stock them probably for those who want a pair slightly cheaper.

 

[vpivinylspinner]

Quote:

Originally Posted by strid3r /img/forum/go_quote.gif Taking my steak knife to it right now. Cheers! On a serious note, does anyone else have those marks? I read about the typo before even opening the box and didn't really care one way or the other, but I was hoping for some nice finished cups...

Mine do not look anything like that.

 

[Canuck57]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drumonron /img/forum/go_quote.gif I find it's ridiculous that you find it ridiculous that he finds it ridiculous. Wait a minute, that's ridiculous...I'm ridiculous for writing this ridiculous post. "Remember folks of the zzz Generation, don't drink and post!" Looking forward to the HF-2s and the HD800s are allowing me to relax and enjoy the wait!

What a ridiculous post!

 

[immtbiker]

I have three things to say at this point:

• Who said that these were "rushed out" or is this assumed? This has been said a couple of times in this thread. Todd and John knew these were going to be in large demand in the Head-Fi community and I don't think any rushing occurred except on Todd's part to get them in our grubby little hands, because we want what we want, right away (thanks Todd for your efforts)
• Having the wrong lettering etched on the cups is a big deal. This cannot and should not be minimized. Members paid a pretty penny for a product and should get what they paid for.
  However, this is the engraver's fault and not Grado's. We would have to know which part of the process the engraving is done at, to know whether or not they were assembled with the mistake.
  However, the mistake will be corrected and there won't be any long term permanent damage, but it is still a big deal at any price point.
  
  I just received a Cary Xciter DAC that has a non-functioning power indicator light. It should have never left the factory like that. Does it work without it? Yes. Could it have broken in shipping? Probably but doubtfully.
  But it needs to be fixed. I shouldn't say, "It's OK, I like it without the light anyway.
  
• (and I've been saving up this comment for a long time)....
  
  
  

 

[roy_jones]

Anyone that is unhappy with their HF-2's with the engraving issue, please PM me and I'll be happy to purchase them.

You can order them again from the back of the line, and by the time you get them, I'm sure that the engraving issue will have been resolved.

 

[roy_jones]

dbl post

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roy_jones /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think it's very likely that both Todd and JG were aware of the misprint and decided that it wasn't a significant enough issue to warrant taking greater action. I'm surprised that there doesn't seem to be greater awareness that a lot of these smaller audio companies are 'boutique' operations, with all of the positives and negatives that go along with that. I've observed Grado's operations for a while now. This issue doesn't surprise me at all. I think one's response to this issue is largely determined by how aware one is of the reality that Grado is, in many ways, a small step above being hobbyist headphone builder. You've got a situation where a headphone is unveiled before it has started being produced. People order the headphones and the limited capacity of Grado's production rate are rapidly exceeded. Grado gets feedback about the quality of the engravings from the first 'sample run' of headphones and has to delay production to try to correct it. The outsourced engraving business messes up the engraving process. Grado realizes that he's already way behind in being able to fill orders in a timely fashion. He makes a decision to go forward anyways and start shipping the wrongly engraved headphones. It's a cost/benefit analysis with the magnitude of the error on one hand, and the potential for an even greater extended delay on the other. In retrospect, Grado's mistake was in releasing the HF-2 before he had a stock of headphones ready for shipment. I think there were a number of reasons for this, with most of them being economic in nature. I've expressed my 'theory' in an earlier post. Ultimately, if you apply a standard that is suited for a mass production product to Grado's, I'm afraid you're not likely to end up happy. The question becomes: who is responsible for the variations in quality control that you see with a product that is essentially made by a small speciality business? I said the same thing in the Jerry Harvey thread when someone was complaining about the level of finishing of his new IEM, the JH13pro. I think part of the problem has been the more recent popularity of head-fi and the expectations of consumers who are not familiar with the specialized nature of many of these products. I've questioned whether head-fi is growing too fast as a result of the dissatisfaction that seems to accompany this misalignment of expectations and standards that arises when people are coming from the quality control standards of mass market products. I'm not a Grado fan-boy. I've wished many times that there was a mass production option that could capture the same sound signature that Grado's do because of these exact types of problems. But there isn't. Some people will say "they're expensive enough to warrant mass production quality standards", regardless of whether they're produced under those conditions. I believe that if you have a set of expectations that is not sensitive to the reality of Grado's specialized and boutique-like operations, you're bound to be disappointed. Who is responsible for that disappointment? Is it Grado? Well, I do think he is responsible for the lack of a margin-of-error he accepted to be able to bring these to market that made this mistake possible. At the same time, I think it's naive of a consumer to fail to account for the reality of Grado's business model. It's not like it's changed all of a sudden or is different now than it has been in the past.

We're not asking for Brain Surgery from a Vo-tech Student here. Grado has made very nice gear in the Past. I've owned a number of cartridges of theirs and they were all great.

The task doesn't seem that difficult.

Commision some Laser Etching.
Ask for a proof.
OK proof after a number of people review it.
Receive first shipment
Proof the work received
Distribute a Good product
Everyone smiles

I've had a lot of Hand made stereo gear, it was all Beautifully made. Handmade Boots, Jackets, Clothes, etc. I expected HIGHER quality than mass produced gear, not LESSER quality. Why wouldn't you have a person making each set beautiful like they took pride in their work?

I went to a bagpipe shop in Edinburgh where they handmade bagpipes. The shop looked inside just like the Grado operation. Their work was functional art. It made beautiful music and the people working there were making a product they were proud of.

.

 

[en480c4]

Quote:

Originally Posted by immtbiker /img/forum/go_quote.gif However, this is the engraver's fault and not Grado's. We would have to know which part of the process the engraving is done at, to know whether they were assembled with the mistake. However, the mistake will be corrected and there won't be any long term permanent damage, but it is still a big deal at any price point.

I've seen issues like this before with custom products, where the vendor (in this case, the engraver) typically provides a proof, which would sent back to the client (in this case, Grado) for approval, and the mistake can be missed at that point of the process. Typically, once the client signs off on the proof, the client owns whatever product is shipped if it matches the proof. And in this instance, if a proof was approved, I'd guess the wording part of the lettering wasn't given a second look once they arrived and the quality of the etching was verified.

If I remember correctly (though I'm too lazy to search for it), Todd said Grado went to a different engraver. Who knows why the change was made... To head off more complaints like the early ones following the unveiling, or to meet the demand. I've seen one of the original Can Jam HF-2s, and in person, there was no issue with the lettering. So if all of this happened because a few people couldn't accept that the etching was difficult to photograph, bitched and moaned and forced a change on the manufacturer's end, and this is the result... Well, I would find that both funny and sad.

And let's be clear... My discussion of proofs is only based on experience with stamps, custom clocks and watches, awards, and things like that. I have no idea what process Grado used... I was just trying to illustrate a very common process for something like this. And if proofs were used, then it's a shame that the mistake wasn't caught early.

 

[DoYouRight]

Im with en480c4. I thought the blurry cup business was a joke? if that is what caused the change in engravers, man that sucks

Can anyone with new H1 pairs, give us a taste on your perspective of the sound other than just "good"? Most of the CanJam 24 were from the big names with great gear, its nice to hear impressions from others.

 

[roy_jones]

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten /img/forum/go_quote.gif We're not asking for Brain Surgery from a Vo-tech Student here. Grado has made very nice gear in the Past. I've owned a number of cartridges of theirs and they were all great. The task doesn't seem that difficult. Commision some Laser Etching. Ask for a proof. OK proof after a number of people review it. Receive first shipment Proof the work received Distribute a Good product Everyone smiles I've had a lot of Hand made stereo gear, it was all Beautifully made. Handmade Boots, Jackets, Clothes, etc. I expected HIGHER quality than mass produced gear, not LESSER quality. Why wouldn't you have a person making each set beautiful like they took pride in their work? I went to a bagpipe shop in Edinburgh where they handmade bagpipes. The shop looked inside just like the Grado operation. Their work was functional art. It made beautiful music and the people working there were making a product they were proud of. .

I understand where you're coming from, but keep in mind that I specifically outlined what I believe were the conditions that led to this mishap.

So while I'm not excusing the mistake, I do believe that if one considers what led to the headphones making it through to buyers, it's not surprising given the production limitations and relative priorities and choices made by Grado.

 

[Bostonears]

I'm sitting here looking at the build quality of an HP-1000 in my hands, and I'm looking up at my computer screen at the picture of the Head-F1. And I'm just shaking my head.