[LaidBack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by strid3r /img/forum/go_quote.gif I finally got a chance to open the box up and take a look at my pair. I noticed I have these...smudges that will not come out. I am not sure what they are...I'm guessing machining marks? They are noticeable on both cups:

That's totally unacceptable and I'm sorry that obviously flawed/damaged garbage was dumped on you. Where's the pride in manufacturing, QC, and respect for the customer????

 

[tomb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roy_jones /img/forum/go_quote.gif I understand where you're coming from, but keep in mind that I specifically outlined what I believe were the conditions that led to this mishap. So while I'm not excusing the mistake, I do believe that if one considers what led to the headphones making it through to buyers, it's not surprising given the production limitations and relative priorities and choices made by Grado.

Yes, and I think your supposed "outline" of "conditions" was despicable. The idea that Grado knew about the mistake and still shipped the headphones is a groundless accusation and one that speaks volumes about your judgment. We've already determined in this thread that customers who've received the headphones ... lived with them and listened to them - still hadn't noticed the mistake until they read this thread. The idea that John Grado knew about the mistake and shipped them anyway is simply a spurious and pernicious accusation.

As for production proofs - that's an incorrect assumption, too. Some outfits offer it, some don't - some work directly from the approved shop drawings. Even with a proof, there's no guarantee that it won't be forked up by someone having a bad day in the factory. A slight mis-read of the drawing and someone uses the "1" type instead of an "I" type. It could happen very easily.

Which brings me to a suggestion that I've been thinking about all day while following this thread. Frankly, I'm surprised the Mods have let it go this far. Personally, I'd delete about half of the posts today. This was a mistake - pure and simple. No quality control issues, no pre-selling before making a prototype, no rush to meet orders with limited production resources. It's a mistake, pure and simple - period! As such, it gives none of you the excuse to rip into overall Grado quality (remember, basically "handmade") before you've even heard from the mfr or retailer about their position on the mistake.

It's been a bunch of damaging, unfounded conjecture about a couple of the biggest supporters Head-Fi has ever known ... about another special product - made just for us. Yet some have used it as an excuse to rip about all sorts of complaints - whether voiced in the past or not. If I was John Grado, I'd be seething about some of what has transpired today. It doesn't stand well for any of us, IMHO.

 

[UglyJoe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roy_jones /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think it's very likely that both Todd and JG were aware of the misprint and decided that it wasn't a significant enough issue to warrant taking greater action.

I certainly hope not. This is the only thing that would turn me off from purchasing anything from TTVJ or Grado again. Ever. This would be COMPLETELY INEXCUSABLE.

As for the rest of your post, I simply disagree. Part of running a small company is that your products are perceived as being better than mass produced products. Now each one may be unique, and that's a bonus, but major flaws don't fly. I had a concert-quality handmade guitar made for me by a luthier who typically builds only 8-12 guitars a year. Are each one of his guitars unique? Absolutely. Are they all flawless when they leave his hands? Youbetcha. Quality control is one of the biggest advantages that a "family" business has over a large company. Just ask some of our MoT around here. They do everything they can to make sure that their products are done right the first time, because if they don't they end up getting a terrible rap and lose their business. Headphile for instance wouldn't be in business if they turned out products with as little QC as what Grado has shown with this special edition. Word of mouth would kill them. Word of mouth on this issue is going to have an effect on Grado's sales, IMO. We already have 3 threads on the site that point out the QC problems with this phone, and that's a lot of readers who were thinking about buying this phone or another Grado phone that might not now. Saying they are a small company and we should expect issues like this is just wrong, IMO.

strid3r, I feel terrible for you. Those cans look like they were dropped or otherwise dragged across a rough surface. That's much worse than the F1 as far as I am concerned, and I hope that you are able to get that fixed ASAP. Be careful though. There are some here who think you should just live with it, because you were being done a "favor" to get those headphones for a measly $430. No big deal.

 

[Audio Addict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ucsf2012 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Let's use a more appropriate analogy. ...if you went to a Lexus dealership, saw a new GS, but some idiot accidentally put the Toyota symbol in the front of the car, would you buy it?

I had to laugh at this as I did recently purchased a Lexus but my insurance company keeps reporting it as a Toyota based on the VIN. My agent says not to worry.

 

[Bostonears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomb /img/forum/go_quote.gif The idea that Grado knew about the mistake and still shipped the headphones is a groundless accusation...

Of course, but I'm not sure which would be worse: that Grado knew and shipped anyway, or that they looked and didn't notice before shipping it, or that nobody even looked.

 

[tomb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bostonears /img/forum/go_quote.gif Of course, but I'm not sure which would be worse: that Grado knew and shipped anyway, or that they looked and didn't notice before shipping it, or that nobody even looked.

Are you serious? You really don't know which is worse?

More evidence that the Mods need to prune this thread extensively, IMHO.

 

[tamahome77]

woh..hey if nobody wants their misprinted Head-F1 HF-2, return them to Todd...I'll gladly buy them as B-stock.

 

[userlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamahome77 /img/forum/go_quote.gif woh..hey if nobody wants their misprinted Head-F1 HF-2, return them to Todd...I'll gladly buy them as B-stock.

See? People are already offering less for the F1s. No way I want to pay full price for that.

 

[UglyJoe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomb /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, and I think your supposed "outline" of "conditions" was despicable. The idea that Grado knew about the mistake and still shipped the headphones is a groundless accusation and one that speaks volumes about your judgment. We've already determined in this thread that customers who've received the headphones ... lived with them and listened to them - still hadn't noticed the mistake until they read this thread. The idea that John Grado knew about the mistake and shipped them anyway is simply a spurious and pernicious accusation. As for production proofs - that's an incorrect assumption, too. Some outfits offer it, some don't - some work directly from the approved shop drawings. Even with a proof, there's no guarantee that it won't be forked up by someone having a bad day in the factory. A slight mis-read of the drawing and someone uses the "1" type instead of an "I" type. It could happen very easily. Which brings me to a suggestion that I've been thinking about all day while following this thread. Frankly, I'm surprised the Mods have let it go this far. Personally, I'd delete about half of the posts today. This was a mistake - pure and simple. No quality control issues, no pre-selling before making a prototype, no rush to meet orders with limited production resources. It's a mistake, pure and simple - period! As such, it gives none of you the excuse to rip into overall Grado quality (remember, basically "handmade") before you've even heard from the mfr or retailer about their position on the mistake. It's been a bunch of damaging, unfounded conjecture about a couple of the biggest supporters Head-Fi has ever known ... about another special product - made just for us. Yet some have used it as an excuse to rip about all sorts of complaints - whether voiced in the past or not. If I was John Grado, I'd be seething about some of what has transpired today. It doesn't stand well for any of us, IMHO.

tomb, I just have to disagree with you here. I like you a lot, but your dead wrong (well, except about the spurious accusation that JG and Todd shipped these F1 cans knowingly and without letting their customers know - I can't imagine that they would do that, and accusing them of it is... just... wrong... can't think of a strong enough way to put that). Everyone is under the assumption that Grado is doing us a "favor" with this can. And to some extent, they are. I think it's a great concept, and I love that the JG has designed a can that is both a Grado yet a departure from their normal lineup (according to all the impressions I've read). But the people who ordered these PAYED FOR THEM. This is a business/customer issue, not a "bite the hand that feeds you" issue. People paid for a product. They haven't gotten what they paid for. Mistake or not, it IS a QC issue. It doesn't mean the rest of the can hasn't been very meticulously built, but it certainly doesn't set a good precedent.

I think the real mistake Grado/Todd made here was the initially stating that they would be shipped in mid-June. I don't see why they would have had to have say 250 cans on hand before announcing the HF-2, but they bottled themselves into a timeframe that they simply couldn't meet by saying they'd be finished in mid June. A lot of buyers purchased the cans with that date in mind, and when you don't meet that date, there are going to be people unhappy with you for missing the date. This leads to a natural inclination to get the phone out there as fast as possible, and leads to issues like the ones that are happening now. Everyone here had the best intentions. Grado and Todd wanted to make a headphone that was exclusive, collectible, and sounded exceptional for it's pricepoint - and further they wanted to support head-fi with this product. Those of us who have ordered this headphone were willing to pay a substantial amount of money for a headphone that was exclusive, collectible, and sounds great (like a top tier can, according to many who have spent a lot of time with it) - and further support the community. The process hasn't gone off as well as it should have, and that is unfortunate. But getting to the very core of this is still the issue of an expensive product that has been paid for and received by many in a condition less than what they were told they were getting when they paid for that product.

I'm sure that Grado/Todd will make this right for people. When they do then we can all talk about how great their response to issues with a product is... and I totally expect it to be. But basically saying that moderators should censor people who have spent $400+ on a headphone because they don't want to offend the party who shipped a below-expected-quality product is wrong.

EDIT: Now if the mods want to censor guineatroll then by all means, have at it.

 

[charliex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by strid3r /img/forum/go_quote.gif I finally got a chance to open the box up and take a look at my pair. I noticed I have these...smudges that will not come out. I am not sure what they are...I'm guessing machining marks? They are noticeable on both cups:

I have held back and reserved judgement...until now. Those very pronounced abrasions are totally unacceptable!!

 

[Cankin]

Let's start a sister forum of Head-Fi, called Head-F1.

Issue resolved, case closed.

 

[uriz3n]

It always boggles my mind when consumers defend the company they've bought from because the item "works for them" or they do not care enough about the flaws. Wouldn't it be nicer if it worked for everybody and there were no flaws? Quality control is always manufacturers choice, and if that choice is to cut costs - maybe cut a bit less in a showcase product released to impress the community? I, personally, do not think that few F1s are a big deal, but there are plenty of people who would, and if I was one of them living far from the US, saving money for a good pair of cans for a long long time, waiting for them to arrive for months and receiving something like strid3r did, shouldn't I be pissed off? ALOT?
I'm sure this will all be sorted out by the second batch though

 

[UglyJoe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliex /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have held back and reserved judgement...until now. Those very pronounced abrasions are totally unacceptable!!

I will totally agree with anyone who says that the F1 issue isn't a big deal in and of itself, but the point I've been trying to make about QC being lacking is explicitly (and sadly) shown in poor strid3r's HF-2s. The F1 is, well not really acceptable, but at least not a deal-breaker, if that is the only issue. But it's indicative of much worse problems (like strid3r's) slipping through the cracks. There is ZERO excuse for a headphone as badly damaged as Strid3r's being shipped. I'm sure that Mr. Grado would absolutely agree with me, and I'm sure that their are going to be some serious consequences at Grado Lab's for someone allowing that kind of thing to go out to a customer.

I just find it inexplicable that so many people here at Head-Fi would DESTROY a seller in the FS forums for selling a significantly cosmetically damaged IEM to another member (there was a banning here a couple of weeks ago stemming from this issue), but then there are so many here who seem to want customers to play nice and be quiet when a major manufacturer sells something like this.

The funny thing is, I think that Mr. Grado and Todd would both side with the people who find this unacceptable, and that's why I think they will do everything in their power to make this right. I have complete faith that they will do so. But just I believe that doesn't mean something shouldn't be said about the product as it is today.

 

[boomana]

It's funny the things we're particular about. Things that matter to me often mean nothing at all to others and visa versa. We're seeing a lot of that in this thread, but what's even more entertaining is that too many people are acting as if someone else's priorities are somehow wrong if they don't align with their own views. I have one of the CanJam HF2s. I like the way it looks and love the way it sounds. If I'd received and HF1 pair, it would really bug me. I'm particular about stuff like that. Don't know why. Don't care. It would really bug me. Other people have other views, and different levels of tolerance for mistakes. That's fine, too.

So here's the deal: a mistake was made. Should it have been avoided? Yup. Will we ever know why it wasn't? Nope. It really doesn't matter much as far as I can tell. What does matter very much is the solution that I believe Todd and Grado will find and offer. Before more verbal sticks and stones get tossed around, why not wait and see if an acceptable option will be made available for those who are unhappy with their purchase?

 

[DoYouRight]

I wish Todd would come back from vacation and post so all this ends, we all know itll be made right, can those with new H1s post a little about the differences in SQ? I think most are along the mindset of Boomana, who has said it perfectly for those of us less versed. Regardless please no more bashing as TTVJ and Grado have alot vested in this community, HE MAKES US SPECIAL CANS FOR GOD SAKE. They will make everyone happy

EDIT: If it keeps on going negative can a mod lock the thread til TTVJ posts?