The Entry Level Stax Thread
Jun 20, 2016 at 3:06 AM Post #2,116 of 3,322
  Oftentimes, when I read of someone preferring a headphone of another technology, it confuses me when they cite supposed limitations of electrostats that in my experience simply do not exist. My personal opinion is that they like (objectively) inferior sound and are confusing things like obnoxious pounding bass and recessed upper frequencies (or perhaps worse: weaker bass and thin, harsh upper frequencies) with high fidelity audio reproduction. It makes me wonder how many of these anti-electrostat elitists have heard what real instruments sound like
 

And a follow up on this, slightly tangential.
 
There's been some debate around Schiit Yggdrasil that for some it produces overly "bright and hyper-detailed sound", and while some will argue that this is how live, unamplified performances can sound like, and that this is "natural and realistic", others still disagree.
 
Do you have an opinion on this?
 
Jun 20, 2016 at 12:29 PM Post #2,117 of 3,322
Just got my 3100's today. Apparently I don't have the ability to upload photos, so I've attached a link. On the inside of the of the speakers, underneath the ear pads is a long black strip of plastic that is a part what I'm guessing is the dust cover. It looks like it's covering the part that produces the sound. Can anyone else confirm their 3100's have this? I don't remember seeing this sort of thing before and want to make sure it's not some manufacturing defect.
 
http://pughphotography.com/private/stax.jpg
 
Jun 20, 2016 at 1:33 PM Post #2,118 of 3,322
  And a follow up on this, slightly tangential.
 
There's been some debate around Schiit Yggdrasil that for some it produces overly "bright and hyper-detailed sound", and while some will argue that this is how live, unamplified performances can sound like, and that this is "natural and realistic", others still disagree.
 
Do you have an opinion on this?

 
Yes, this is a little off-topic. All active threads get off track from time to time, but I think we should all make an effort to keep information more organized. This issue is better discussed elsewhere, but since you quoted me here, I'll reply here and try to put it in the context of STAX as well.
 
There are multiple factors at play in this.
 
Acoustic (and digital) instruments, recording and mastering techniques, headphone sound signatures, and so on can range from bright and thin to dark and thick. Sometimes people talk about how one thing sounds but are unknowingly describing how an entirely different thing sounds. This is why it is important to isolate as many variables as you can before attempting serious comparisons between audio components. When you read impressions of audio gear, something to keep in mind is that sometimes you are actually reading impressions of different music, different headphones, etc. instead of the one thing you want to know about. And often, you are also reading about how someone wants a recording to sound, not necessarily how it truly sounds. Sometimes I've thought something was bright or dark...but then after listening to more music with it, I realized otherwise.
 
As far as the measured frequency response of the device goes, it is perfectly neutral (with deviations of 0.1 dB, which should not be audible, or at least not significant) across the human sensory spectrum...but that is not the only thing that accounts for how something sounds, obviously. Here is an excellent post about how other technical aspects of DACs can change the sound. There's also the fact that, unlike most electronics, the sound of the Yggdrasil changes after it has been on for awhile due to the type of electronics in it. Even the official manual will tell you that, and they recommend simply leaving it on. So that's another thing that can result in disparate experiences.
 
Now I'll get into STAX for a moment. You know that bloated, muddy, distorted, slow type of bass that many low quality headphones and speakers have? Well...people are kinda used to that. So when they encounter much more accurate bass that is not exaggerated and has low distortion and fast transients coupled with an overall balanced frequency response, it can be perceived as inferior when it is in fact superior in objective terms.
 
Another intriguing thing I noticed with electrostats is that, although it's usually not rolled off, the treble is less harsh than dynamic headphones, even when you boost it to levels that you would expect to sound harsher than what actually happens. This ties into the aforementioned technical aspects.
 
Everything I've said here is only scratching the surface. You'll have to do a lot of research to gain a deep understanding.
 
Jun 20, 2016 at 9:36 PM Post #2,119 of 3,322
I just wanted to keep this thread going for a little while longer.  I know the Stax community is small and that posts are few and far between.  Anyway, the 2170 system is pretty damn awesome for the price. I can't say it is the best thing ever, as I am not an audiophile and my experience with higher end dynamic and planar headphones is limited.  I appreciate great sound quality, but not well versed in all of the jargon. However, I have owned and/or auditioned a fair amount headphones over the past year: Grado 325e, Grado 80e, Philips Fidelio X2, AudioQuest Nighthawk, Senn HD598, Oppo PM-3, AKG 712, HiFiMan 400s, Sony MA900, V-Moda Crossfade LP2, Sony 100aap, and Sony MDR CD900st.  I still own and love the 900st - it's a great closed back headphone, with a superb neutral and smooth sound. 
 
I like the sound of the Stax 2170 the best.  It has an airy, atmospheric quality but at the same there it is rich and intimate sounding.  It's hard to explain.  They remind me a little bit of the Grado but with more space and less harshness.  I am getting the 507 leather pads, so looking forward to making the experience even better.
 
Jun 20, 2016 at 10:11 PM Post #2,120 of 3,322
  I just wanted to keep this thread going for a little while longer.  I know the Stax community is small and that posts are few and far between.

 
Although the STAX community is on the smaller side, there are tons of posts in the other STAX threads.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii
http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new
 
There are other threads too, as well as plenty of discussion on other sites.
 
Jun 21, 2016 at 9:45 PM Post #2,121 of 3,322
I'm looking to step up my headphone game and i've exhausted almost all options. So here I am looking to build an entry level Stax system. Currently I'm using a pair of Sennheiser HD600s (my favorite dynamic headphone) my source is a Cambridge Audio Dacmagic and the amp I'm using is a Gustard H10. I've been doing research and apparently Stax have refreshed their lambda line with the L series. I was thinking of purchasing an SR-L300 with the Woo Audio WEE to connect to my Yamaha A-S701 Integrated amp. Would this be a good entry level setup for the money or would I be better off buying a dedicated Stax amplifier and higher end headphones? I really want this to be an upgrade to my current HD600.
 
Jun 21, 2016 at 9:58 PM Post #2,122 of 3,322
  I'm looking to step up my headphone game and i've exhausted almost all options. So here I am looking to build an entry level Stax system. Currently I'm using a pair of Sennheiser HD600s (my favorite dynamic headphone) my source is a Cambridge Audio Dacmagic and the amp I'm using is a Gustard H10. I've been doing research and apparently Stax have refreshed their lambda line with the L series. I was thinking of purchasing an SR-L300 with the Woo Audio WEE to connect to my Yamaha A-S701 Integrated amp. Would this be a good entry level setup for the money or would I be better off buying a dedicated Stax amplifier and higher end headphones? I really want this to be an upgrade to my current HD600.

 
If I were you I'd go for a STAX SRD-7 (any version with PRO bias outputs) adapter instead of the WEE. You'd save a few hundred bucks that way. How much money you'll need to spend on electrostatic headphone and amp upgrades to be a worthy upgrade in sound is a subjective matter. I think the most logical route is to start out cheap, then upgrade when it's easily affordable.
 
Jun 21, 2016 at 10:38 PM Post #2,123 of 3,322
   
If I were you I'd go for a STAX SRD-7 (any version with PRO bias outputs) adapter instead of the WEE. You'd save a few hundred bucks that way. How much money you'll need to spend on electrostatic headphone and amp upgrades to be a worthy upgrade in sound is a subjective matter. I think the most logical route is to start out cheap, then upgrade when it's easily affordable.

Thanks for the advice, the problem I have is finding on of these that is 240volt since in I live in Australia are they switchable voltage?
 
Jun 22, 2016 at 9:09 AM Post #2,125 of 3,322
Oh i see most work with multi voltage. Only thing thats off putting is the lack of binding posts. I'll try to find a used Woo WEE. I'm not exactly sure what Stax headphone to pick though. I love the sound signature of my HD600, So far im considering the Sr-l300 Sr-l500 or SR-507 but not quite sure what to go for.

I would like something with more bass than the HD600 the tonal balance of the HD600 is great just the bass rolloff lets it down for me.
 
Jun 22, 2016 at 1:25 PM Post #2,126 of 3,322
  Oh i see most work with multi voltage. Only thing thats off putting is the lack of binding posts. I'll try to find a used Woo WEE. I'm not exactly sure what Stax headphone to pick though. I love the sound signature of my HD600, So far im considering the Sr-l300 Sr-l500 or SR-507 but not quite sure what to go for.

I would like something with more bass than the HD600 the tonal balance of the HD600 is great just the bass rolloff lets it down for me.

 
There are binding posts on the back (and bear in mind there are different versions of the SRD-7), but you use the wires at the end of the cable that comes out the back to connect to a speaker amp. You may have seen in a previous post of mine that I used a cheap speaker amp with a STAX SRD-4 to drive a pair of electrets, and it sounded the same as driving them directly from a STAX SRM-212 amp.
 
It's easy to boost the bass of any headphone with a parametric equalizer. The simplest way of going about it is to pinpoint frequencies below 200 Hz and increase them. The better way of doing it, if you want an overall balanced response, is to follow various EQ guides on this site, but that requires more effort.
 
Jun 23, 2016 at 2:06 AM Post #2,127 of 3,322
  Oh i see most work with multi voltage. Only thing thats off putting is the lack of binding posts. I'll try to find a used Woo WEE. I'm not exactly sure what Stax headphone to pick though. I love the sound signature of my HD600, So far im considering the Sr-l300 Sr-l500 or SR-507 but not quite sure what to go for.

I would like something with more bass than the HD600 the tonal balance of the HD600 is great just the bass rolloff lets it down for me.

 
Any of the SRDs are hooked up to the amplifier by the wires that come out the back. If you want to hook up speakers as well, that's where the terminals on the back come in. The old SRD-7 has screw terminals that are not difficult to replace with binding posts. In fact, you can get binding posts that screw into the terminals where the screws were. 
 
They require very little power. Some people drive them with small T-Amp type devices. A vintage low watt Yamaha or Rotel can be a good pick. 
 
I'm making boards that upgrade the old normal bias SRD-7 to the pro/normal SRD-7 Mk2. Not to be confused with the SRD-7 Pro which is pro bias only. Sort of a hybrid design combining the wiring convention of the original SRD-7 (to make it easy to install) and the best features of early and late Mk2 boxes. 
 
Jun 23, 2016 at 2:55 AM Post #2,128 of 3,322
 
 
The most obvious ones are low distortion, fast transient response, and balanced frequency response. Of course, other types can also excel in these areas. I don't have a full understanding of why they sound more realistic to me. 
 

 
@jude gives a nice run-down of electrostat tech when discussing the SR-009:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/560425/stax-sr-009-best-headphone-ever-made-head-fi-tv-episode-008
 
Jun 23, 2016 at 12:10 PM Post #2,129 of 3,322
  @jude gives a nice run-down of electrostat tech when discussing the SR-009:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/560425/stax-sr-009-best-headphone-ever-made-head-fi-tv-episode-008

 
Surely you don't think someone like me (with over 13,000 posts) hasn't already seen that. 
wink.gif

 
(In fact, I saw it long before I joined Head-Fi...and I posted in that thread...and I even once discussed that video with him.)
 
Pretty much anyone with even a mild interest in electrostats has a basic understanding of how they work. Here are a few of the type of links that are easily found:
 
https://www.staxusa.com/Technology.html
http://www.stax.co.jp/Export/ABOUT_ESP1.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headphones#Electrostatic
http://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/stax/electrostatic.htm
 
Jun 25, 2016 at 4:14 PM Post #2,130 of 3,322
I don't know if it's burn in, as I have no real opinion on that subject, but the 2170 system is sounding particularly awesome recently. Had it a couple of weeks now but not logged too many hours on it yet. The sound is difficult to describe. I definitely appreciate more now how different they are than headphones. It is sort of like being in a room with awesome speakers playing a really clear FM stereo channel.
 

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