[pp312]

  Just know that when you boost the treble for artificial detail instead of actual detail, that will only give you fake realism, not true realism. I have no idea what you mean about "lacking" treble making a headphone sound harsh. A headphone only sounds harsh to me when it has too much treble.
 
And yeah, you should have listened with all types of music (like me!) instead of just one. But I respect that your subjective experience is genuine nonetheless.

 
I appreciate that a broader range of music will give a broader subjective perspective. However, I'm not interested in music outside the stated genre, will never listen to it and thus, for me, it's entirely irrelevant to my headphone experience. (I also happen to think that heavy orchestral music is the hardest to reproduce accurately, whether you like the music or not. Get the sound right with that and it will be right with other genres).
 
I should have mentioned that I've been into headphones since 1968, which will tell you two things about me:
 
a) I've had some experience in the area and
 
b) I'm pretty old (well, old anyway. Not so pretty anymore). Obviously my perception of extreme treble is going to be diminished somewhat, which may help explain my preferences.
 
As for lack of extreme treble making the sound harsh, yes it can. Extreme treble adds a sweetness to the sound which is immediately noticeable in its absence. It's too much mid and lower treble that makes the sound harsh. That's perhaps why I can't abide the K701, because it has that lower treble hump. The 880 merely sounds to me a little over-etched. Mind you, I'd prefer it if Beyer could damp the peak a little better, but that's unlikely to happen, and meantime the phone is just so damn good in so many other areas (including comfort) I can't go past it.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  As for lack of extreme treble making the sound harsh, yes it can. Extreme treble adds a sweetness to the sound which is immediately noticeable in its absence. It's too much mid and lower treble that makes the sound harsh. That's perhaps why I can't abide the K701, because it has that lower treble hump. The 880 merely sounds to me a little over-etched. Mind you, I'd prefer it if Beyer could damp the peak a little better, but that's unlikely to happen, and meantime the phone is just so damn good in so many other areas (including comfort) I can't go past it.

 
Oh, you meant upper treble when you said extreme treble. Yes, upper treble can enhance the sense of air and so on. But extreme treble normally means extreme quantities of treble in general, above the neutral amount.
 
If you look at the measurements I posted, you can see that the SR-207 isn't lacking in any area of the treble; it's just not overly emphasized. The DT 880 is a solid performer, anyway. I heard it scales well too, with better amps.

 

[pp312]

dp

 

[pp312]

Sorry, I'm having all sorts of trouble with posting. This board is weird sometimes.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I don't want to leave the impression that I thought the Stax was poor. It's just that given the price ($1200 retail in Oz, though I imported from Price Japan)  and reputation, I was expecting a revelation, an orchestra laid out before me in glorious detail, and that didn't happen. Odd, because I owned both Sigma and Lambda in the 80s, so it's not like I came to the brand as an innocent. Hmm. Maybe Stax have changed, I know I have.   

 
I got a used SR-207 for $180 and a used SRM-212 for $150.

 
Anyway, the SR-207 is an entry-level model. You might want to audition the SR-009 and SR-007 sometime.

 

[pp312]

     
You don't need to make the same post over and over again. (You've done it three times on this page.)
 
 

 
 
Yes, I know, because I'm getting a message that indicates the post isn't going through, and it isn't showing up for me so I had to re-write it twice. Stupid board! (spits dummy)

 

[pp312]

  Oh, you meant upper treble when you said extreme treble. Yes, upper treble can enhance the sense of air and so on. But extreme treble normally means extreme quantities of treble in general, above the neutral amount.
 
 

 
 
Actually I'd have thought that was excess treble. I was thinking of extreme as in:
 
3. farthest from the center or middle; outermost; endmost:
the extreme limits of a town.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Yes, I know, because I'm getting a message that indicates the post isn't going through, and it isn't showing up for me so I had to re-write it twice. Stupid board! (spits dummy)

 
hehe, no worries. I already deleted the part of my post you quoted.
 
The way you described your expectations of the sound makes it seem like you want a larger soundstage like the SR-Sigma is capable of. Correct me if I'm mistaken.
 

  Actually I'd have thought that was excess treble. I was thinking of extreme as in:
 
3. farthest from the center or middle; outermost; endmost:
the extreme limits of a town.

 
When people talk about extreme bass, they are referring to massive quantities of bass. When they are talking about the deepest bass frequencies, they say sub-bass. "Extreme" is too ambiguous, so it's best to avoid it unless you're talking about lots of extra (something).

 

[pp312]

 
The way you described your expectations of the sound makes it seem like you want a larger soundstage like the SR-Sigma is capable of. Correct me if I'm mistaken.
 

 
No, not really, just greater clarity, realism, all the things we look for in phones in a higher price range. Actually I try to go to concerts often enough to retain a memory of what a symphony orchestra sounds like in a decent venue (in this case the Sydney Opera House) rather than falling back on comparisons with other (usually flawed) phones. Live music after all is, or should be, the goal if we're to pursue the 'Fi' part of Head-Fi.
 
Re soundstage, I'm not even sure size, as opposed to precise positioning and good depth, is that important to me.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  No, not really, just greater clarity, realism, all the things we look for in phones in a higher price range. Actually I try to go to concerts often enough to retain a memory of what a symphony orchestra sounds like in a decent venue (in this case the Sydney Opera House) rather than falling back on comparisons with other (usually flawed) phones. Live music after all is, or should be, the goal if we're to pursue the 'Fi' part of Head-Fi.
 
Re soundstage, I'm not even sure size, as opposed to precise positioning and good depth, is that important to me.

 
Well, to my ears, the SR-207 has far greater clarity and realism than any non-electrostat, including ones that cost thousands; just not artificially-boosted treble, which is not actual clarity. This goes back to my original statement about preference.
 
I also don't care much about soundstage, since, you know, we're talking about headphones here.

 

[n3rdling]

   
 
I thought that the sound of the 880 and 2170 were very similar in terms of overall balance and neutrality, but the Stax's subjective lack of treble made it seem rather harsh, as a lack of extreme treble can. I didn't find any greater degree of 'realism' from the Stax; rather I found the lack of treble somewhat clouded its potential in that area, as well as in the area of soundstaging. I was disappointed, as I'd been expecting so much more. However it should be said that I also prefer the 880 over other phones generally rated on a par or higher, including the HiFiman HE-500, HD650, K701 and Audeze LCD-2 (Mk 1). I listen only to orchestral/classical and have no interest in vocals, which perhaps is relevant. I find the 880, well amped, to be capable of an astonishing performance on orchestral music. How it fares on other genres I have no idea.

 
You might want to try to find a used set of vintage Stax SR-Lambdas.  They're normal bias and a very good deal for the price.  I much prefer the original lineup of Lambdas to the modern lineups, especially for orchestral.  You can probably find a SR-Lambda and transformer box (SRD-6 or SRD-7) for under $300. 

 

[Teraflame]

DT880s have always been ear rape to me, treble is just too much.

 

[pp312]

 
You might want to try to find a used set of vintage Stax SR-Lambdas.  They're normal bias and a very good deal for the price.  I much prefer the original lineup of Lambdas to the modern lineups, especially for orchestral.  You can probably find a SR-Lambda and transformer box (SRD-6 or SRD-7) for under $300. 

 
As stated in one of my posts, I owned both Lambda and Sigma (normal bias) for many years. At the time I found the Lambda a little bright, so would probably enjoy it now. However, I've moved on, and though it might sound like sacrilege to some, the 880 is what I've moved on to. I'm quite satisfied.
 
(Incidentally, the move to SRD-7 from 6 is the greatest improvement one can make to a Lambda. I was sorry I didn't do it much sooner).

 

[pp312]

  DT880s have always been ear rape to me, treble is just too much.

 
You mean I'm getting raped every night? Wow...
 

 

[noxa]

I need some help from someone more technically minded than me. I am looking to order the 2170 system direct from Japan to the UK, I am having trouble working out which transformer I need, I'm assuming I need a step up transformer from 100v to 230 but I am unsure of the wattage rating? It seems the energiser is 100w with a max output of 280w is that correct? So a transformer rated at 300w should be ok? Thanks in advance if you can help.