[jgray91]

While this talk is interesting I really recommend you guys take it into PM's or something...

No, don't go with PM. This is interesting for me. As long as it doesn't turn out how I'd argue... I'm bad at arguing.

 

[billybob_jcv]

We tend to blame fat-cat corporations - but the reality is that we drive those corporations to act as they do. We will abandon a vendor if we can get a product a few dollars cheaper elsewhere. Walmart exists because we want it to exist. Business ethics is an interesting subject. Do we actually want a business to do anything other than maximize profits? We say yes with our heads, but we say no with our wallets. All costs incurred by a business are ultimately passed to the customer - and every day we prove that lower prices = more customer loyalty.

 

[DigitalFreak]

That's rampant consumerism and I think you me and Magik will agree it can be the root to many modern economic woes.

 

[tomscy2000]

Quote:

  No, don't go with PM. This is interesting for me. As long as it doesn't turn out how I'd argue... I'm bad at arguing.

 ​

So, I'm not trying to purposely change the topic, but I happened to see this program about the Malaysian elections, and I remembered jgray was talking about it before; I'm not very well-versed about Malaysian politics, but I've been aware of the racial tensions that have historically caused issues in Malaysia. There is also a large population of Malaysians here where I live (almost completely of Chinese descent), and they seemed to be very concerned about the election. I didn't have much time to pay attention to the elections, though now that the election results have been out for a while, and BN is still at the helm, how are the issues raised in this program still relevant? Just a curiosity...

 

[barleyguy]

Quote:

That's rampant consumerism and I think you me and Magik will agree it can be the root to many modern economic woes.

Very much agreed.  It's also a "quantity versus quality" thing.  I personally believe it's better to have a few really nice things than a large quantity of low quality crap.  Rampant consumerism encourages the manufacture and sales of low quality products as well as being a bad financial decision for the person being a rampant consumer.

 

[Mimouille]

Quote:

We tend to blame fat-cat corporations - but the reality is that we drive those corporations to act as they do. We will abandon a vendor if we can get a product a few dollars cheaper elsewhere. Walmart exists because we want it to exist. Business ethics is an interesting subject. Do we actually want a business to do anything other than maximize profits? We say yes with our heads, but we say no with our wallets. All costs incurred by a business are ultimately passed to the customer - and every day we prove that lower prices = more customer loyalty.

There is a balance in all things. Society may also educate itself. If advertizing was not always pushing people to constantly want always more and more, but instead to consumer less, more responsibly and better, price would not be the only driver. I am in the United States right now, and while I admire many things here everytime I come (quality of service for one), there is something sick about consumerism here (and I am not an anti consumerist). This constant all you can eat communication everywhere is crazy. You watch TV, and every 5 minutes, you have a commercial break with either:
 - A brands YELLING at you to consume more
 - A lawyer yelling at you that if you have been injured consuming a product, you can get money, which can allow you to then consume more...
 
I myself will gladly work more and pay more taxes to help those who need it (I did it gladly for years when living in France). And I will gladly pay more for things that have better quality, and support certain ethics.
 
I hate racism agains rich people / money. I have money and worked hard for it, even if being from a well off family I had it easier than many. So I am not a proponent of such populism that always blames "the rich". But I am certainly for a more balanced model than american capitalism.

 

[barleyguy]

Quote:

You watch TV, and every 5 minutes, you have a commercial break with either:
 - A brands YELLING at you to consume more
 - A lawyer yelling at you that if you have been injured consuming a product, you can get money, which can allow you to then consume more...
 

Slightly off-topic, but this is why I don't watch TV.

 

[Mimouille]

Quote:

Slightly off-topic, but this is why I don't watch TV.

Haven't watched it in years. Just tried it here as I am visiting the US. I just buy movies and series.

 

[Hutnicks]

Quote:

Slightly off-topic, but this is why I don't watch TV.

 
Quote:

Haven't watched it in years. Just tried it here as I am visiting the US. I just buy movies and series.

Little further off topic. Have either of you read Neil Postmans "Amusing Ourselves To Death"?
 
Should be required reading in every school on earth.

 

[eke2k6]

Quote:

I grew up in rural Appalachia and lived in a small mobile home until I was 12. My dad worked at a local plant but was laid off, or on strike due to union labor disputes, a good deal of the time . So we lived on the eggs our chickens made, fish from the lake, and bologna sandwiches for months at a time, and my sister and I wore our cousins' cast-off clothes. Often we had no power during the spring, Summer, and Fall, because we'd get behind on the bill and they'd simply cut it off. My most treasured object was my library card, however, and that's probably what saved my life. The fact is, my "world" is relatively new to me, I wasn't born into it, and I did work my a** off getting here (even if good fortune smiled on me rather late in the game).

 
Here's a question. Where do you think you'd be in life if not for fortune smiling on you? Do you think you'd be near the same position you are now?
 
There are several people who started off with the same background as you, but never made it out of that mobile home. Some did, but only had slight upward mobility.
 
My point is that no matter how hard you work, the key to success is, and will always be, opportunity. There are basketball players in ghettos all over the world who have worked to be more skilled than most NBA players. Unfortunately, most of them will never be discovered.
 
We have somewhat similar views of life. Yes, opportunity is necessary, but you must first put in the effort to be ready when it presents itself.

 

[Hutnicks]

Quote:

 
Here's a question. Where do you think you'd be in life if not for fortune smiling on you? Do you think you'd be near the same position you are now?
 
There are several people who started off with the same background as you, but never made it out of that mobile home. Some did, but only had slight upward mobility.
 
My point is that no matter how hard you work, the key to success is, and will always be, opportunity. There are basketball players in ghettos all over the world who have worked to be more skilled than most NBA players. Unfortunately, most of them will never be discovered.
 
We have somewhat similar views of life. Yes, opportunity is necessary, but you must first put in the effort to be ready when it presents itself.

...And the intelligence to recognize it or create it.

 

[Magick Man]

Here's a question. Where do you think you'd be in life if not for fortune smiling on you? Do you think you'd be near the same position you are now?

There are several people who started off with the same background as you, but never made it out of that mobile home. Some did, but only had slight upward mobility.

My point is that no matter how hard you work, the key to success is, and will always be, opportunity. There are basketball players in ghettos all over the world who have worked to be more skilled than most NBA players. Unfortunately, most of them will never be discovered.

We have somewhat similar views of life. Yes, opportunity is necessary, but you must first put in the effort to be ready when it presents itself.

I'd be on schedule, because I'd set certain goals and had been meeting them. When that happened it pushed up my timetable, as I said before, I was already doing pretty well with my own plans. Realistically, it set me forward ~15 years. See, when my grandfather died only three family members inherited anything; one of my uncles, my mother, and me. It wasn't evenly split, either. My uncle and I each received 45% and my mom got 10. The reason being, he and I were the only ones with financial discipline, and my mom was frugal by nature. Handing over huge amounts to anyone else would have harmed them, like giving a large pile of candy to a 7 y/o. They'd consume it as quickly as possible until they're sick, and then it would all be gone.

You make opportunity by creating good habits.

 

[Silent One]

Originally posted by Magick Man

"You make opportunity by creating good habits."

 
Yes, this is what I was expressing earlier. Because one is going to have habits anyway, might as well make 'em work for you. 

 

[Silent One]

NBA
 
Can't wait for the Dr. J documentary coming 12 June!
 
http://www.nba.com/2013/news/04/17/nbatv-dr-j-documentary-official-release/index.html
 

 

[anetode]

Quote:

 

Little further off topic. Have either of you read Neil Postmans "Amusing Ourselves To Death"?
 
Should be required reading in every school on earth.

So that's where Roger Waters got it.
 
 
Quote:

I never said they can accomplish anything, but they can achieve fulfillment. If a person doesn't change their habits and perspective, no amount of financial assistance will help.

I was responding to billybob's assertion, though yours bears some thought. What would you say to people who were influenced by religion or philosophy to seek fulfillment in the eradication of material attachments?